Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[Kingdawson]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

It still smacks of short termism though, considering the players all backed AVB and wanted him to succeed (according to Friedel).

I think what happened was AVB demanding some expensive players and not getting them, and then Sherwood voicing concerns that he wasn't going to promote the youth - which chimed with Levy. AVB would have said he would promote more youth, but he's also dealing with the pressure of needing to make a title challenge/deliver top 4.

In the end we didn't give AVB the support to succeed and if we weren't going to do that, I'd much rather we give the job to someone else. We shouldn't have hired him in the first place if it was going to end like this (and if we weren't too fussed about him going to PSG) because it's all been a waste of time.

Yes tbh it's been a complete waste of time but i don't think it's because he wasn't supported that's for sure. We just found out the football philosophy he wanted to implement was flawed and unattractive.... and it did not look like it would improve any time soon thus it was time for him to go. There's no point persisting with a manager that persists with a broken tactic that will never get fixed imo.

 

[milo]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Its short termism if there was evidence of progression but not when the team was performing poorly and was ona downward spiral. Beating the bottom two teams is not something to shout about and does not at all evidence that we werent on a downward spiral. Its the very least I would expect from a team that has cost around 160m or more to assemble.

The fact is AVB looked a lost man and distraught. I dont think AVB is strong enough mentally yet to manage and still think he is too ****in stubborn. He is the master of his own downfall. A perfect example is playing a highline when you have got Dawson and Capoue against the likes of Suarez and Sterling. ****ing hell recipe for disaster or what. Yes he likes ot play high line, but ****in adapt.

If you are signing players that you do not expect to make an impact for six months to a year. Then not giving the manager that time to work with them is shortermism. But I take on board Chancer's point that there is loads of stuff behind the scenes that we do not see and that the decision may well have been taken fir this as much as results/performances.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Yes tbh it's been a complete waste of time but i don't think it's because he wasn't supported that's for sure. We just found out the football philosophy he wanted to implement was flawed and unattractive.... and it did not look like it would improve any time soon thus it was time for him to go. There's no point persisting with a manager that persists with a broken tactic that will never get fixed imo.

As others are saying, I don't think we can make that judgement, which would be on a long term basis when players take typically 6 months to a year to settle coming from abroad , before we actually enter that time frame.

 

[Daisuk]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

it amounts to the same thing. If the club's transfer policy is based on signing players with potential, then the manager should be judged on longer term criteria. This isn't about AVB, it will happen to the next manager too if they have to work within the same restrictions.

It's not so black and white though, is it? What about the obvious tactical blunder of playing a high defensive line against one of the absolute top teams in the league after having lost 6-0 two weeks prior due to the same deployed tactics? We conceded a bombardment of shots against bottom side Fulham because of the exact same thing. We lost to Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home because of it (and Tim Krul), not to mention West Ham.

I know this has been repeated a lot of times now, so I won't mention it again. But you can't just say "give the man some time, it'll work out" if there are a lot of basic systemic errors in place that's being repeated match after match.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

As others are saying, I don't think we can make that judgement, which would be on a long term basis when players take typically 6 months to a year to settle coming from abroad , before we actually enter that time frame.

We can imo. It doesn't take 1 and a half years to implement a system that allows us to create much much much more clear cut chances then we've currently been doing at home..it simply doesn't. TBH BOL i do think you're moving the goal posts and you actively look for excuses to defend AVB and i'll tell you why.

Last season i continuously made comments about how tedious our home performances are. I made these comments throughout the season and even during the summer. I remember you specifically saying (and this was during the summer AFTER the new signings) that there is no way we would perform that poorly at home as AVB would have had time to implement his style of football (whatever that is) during the summer. Bear in mind i wasn't complaining about results or anything...i was specifically complaining about our home performances. Fast forward 4 or so months and there's been no sign of improvement but you've failed to admit this...instead still stating he needed more time. How long does it take to make an already good premiership team produce good home performances for a run of consecutive games in your opinion?

 

[milo]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

It's not so black and white though, is it? What about the obvious tactical blunder of playing a high defensive line against one of the absolute top teams in the league after having lost 6-0 two weeks prior due to the same deployed tactics? We conceded a bombardment of shots against bottom side Fulham because of the exact same thing. We lost to Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home because of it (and Tim Krul), not to mention West Ham.

I know this has been repeated a lot of times now, so I won't mention it again. But you can't just say "give the man some time, it'll work out" if there are a lot of basic systemic errors in place that's being repeated match after match.

Of course. None of this happens in a vacuum.

But I still think that a long term transfer strategy and short term performance targets is a recipe for disaster, regardless who the manager is.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

We can imo. It doesn't take 1 and a half years to implement a system that allows us to create much much much more clear cut chances then we've currently been doing at home..it simply doesn't. TBH BOL i do think you're moving the goal posts and you actively look for excuses to defend AVB and i'll tell you why.

Last season i continuously made comments about how tedious our home performances are. I made these comments throughout the season and even during the summer. I remember you specifically saying (and this was during the summer AFTER the new signings) that there is no way we would perform that poorly at home as AVB would have had time to implement his style of football (whatever that is) during the summer. Bear in mind i wasn't complaining about results or anything...i was specifically complaining about our home performances. Fast forward 4 or so months and there's been no sign of improvement but you've failed to admit this...instead still stating he needed more time. How long does it take to make an already good premiership team produce good home performances for a run of consecutive games in your opinion?

I did admit it mate, I freely admitted I was completely wrong on thinking we could challenge for the title and even wrong on the fact that I thought we were moving to a nicer style of football immediately once we got the likes of Dempsey out. I realised that it didn't actually take 18 months to implement the system, the players were putting it into action straight away, or at least trying to. The slow tempo in some games followed by quick bursts or quick tempo in others I believe was the plan, and it was just about being effective with it.

We had an inconsistent opening to this season whereby we played some lovely stuff sometimes and had some awful results sometimes. I was wrong in thinking we were slowly moving toward a nicer style 100% of the time, because sometimes we would be playing a slow tempo under him and that was the case right from the start of his reign. I 100% believe if he was supported by the board and given the time to allow 7 new foreigners to settle, we would have seen more Norwich type performances at home and less Hulls. It's about being effective with the style and when it isn't going well, it looks ineffective and wrong. When it goes well it looks good. That's the case with any system. The difference would be last year when Dempsey is the fulcrum of our attack and then Bale, we aren't going to be about looking nice in possession and so it looks bad but was effective. This year I think we had players that would look nicer in possession but we were just a bit more ragged because a lot of the squad hasn't gelled yet.

It's not about moving the goalposts though, I always admit on here when I've been wrong.

I would say though...performances like Norwich at home or even Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home were better than ANYTHING we produced last season at home style wise, bar the big games. That's why I was excited and thought this season would be different, we'd play better against the smaller teams at home too, as well as utilising the quick tempo against the big teams. There's no way he wants boring football when we produced good football some of the time. He isn't a Pulis. I think it was simply a matter of players settling so we could get there consistently, but he never got the chance to show it.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I did admit it mate, I freely admitted I was completely wrong on thinking we could challenge for the title and even wrong on the fact that I thought we were moving to a nicer style of football immediately once we got the likes of Dempsey out. I realised that it didn't actually take 18 months to implement the system, the players were putting it into action straight away, or at least trying to. The slow tempo in some games followed by quick bursts or quick tempo in others I believe was the plan, and it was just about being effective with it.

We had an inconsistent opening to this season whereby we played some lovely stuff sometimes and had some awful results sometimes. I was wrong in thinking we were slowly moving toward a nicer style 100% of the time, because sometimes we would be playing a slow tempo under him and that was the case right from the start of his reign. I 100% believe if he was supported by the board and given the time to allow 7 new foreigners to settle, we would have seen more Norwich type performances at home and less Hulls. It's about being effective with the style and when it isn't going well, it looks ineffective and wrong. When it goes well it looks good. That's the case with any system. The difference would be last year when Dempsey is the fulcrum of our attack and then Bale, we aren't going to be about looking nice in possession and so it looks bad but was effective. This year I think we had players that would look nicer in possession but we were just a bit more ragged because a lot of the squad hasn't gelled yet.

It's not about moving the goalposts though, I always admit on here when I've been wrong.

I would say though...performances like Norwich at home or even Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home were better than ANYTHING we produced last season at home style wise, bar the big games. That's why I was excited and thought this season would be different, we'd play better against the smaller teams at home too, as well as utilising the quick tempo against the big teams. There's no way he wants boring football when we produced good football some of the time. He isn't a Pulis. I think it was simply a matter of players settling so we could get there consistently, but he never got the chance to show it.

arghhhh why are you such a likable poster?

I wouldn't class Saudi Sportswashing Machine home as a good performance tbh. For the first 15 minutes they blitzed us and could have been 2-0 up...eventually we got our act together but it shouldn't take going a goal down to do that. Norwich was good though but we've since seen every big team hammer them.

So why was he able to immediately work out a successful system away from home but not at the Lane? in your opinion..

 

[indospurs]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Jeez we had 7 new players - SEVEN ! And we lost our best player (ever ?). Granted we had some boring, turgid performances but we still needed time, and we still do now, to bed these guys in. AvB is methodical in his approach and results based.

Imagine marrying his analyses with Arry's man-management - BOOM, would be beautiful I think.

Ifs, buts, howabouts, let's move on.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

why is it easy to 'bed' all these new players and produce good away performances immediately but suddenly at the Lane we play like a disjointed bunch of strangers?

 

[Heda SPURSCZ]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Friedel says players backed AVB

http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/premierleague/story/friedel-says-tottenham-players-were-behind-villas-boas-121813

Brad Friedel has dismissed reports Andre Villas-Boas lost the Tottenham dressing room, insisting none of the players wanted to see him leave.

Villas-Boas was fired on Monday following Spurs' 5-0 demolition at home by Liverpool, with some reports claiming he had lost the support of his players.

But speaking on FOX Soccer Daily, Friedel insisted the entire squad was behind the Portuguese coach.

"I think all the players in the changing room really wanted things to work out for Andre," the United States goalkeeper said.

"From day one that he came to the club, (he had an) open door policy, very good communication with the players. None of us were happy to see him go.

"We still have to continue to have a very good team spirit, which I know we will.

"We have a lot of quality in the changing room.

"I'm sure the board are going to be hiring a very good manager to take us forward, who the players will all be behind again, because, at the end of the day, we are employed by Tottenham Hotspur Football Club, not by the manager they're bringing in.

"We just have to try to adhere to all of his ideas and try to get results for the football club."

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

arghhhh why are you such a likable poster?

I wouldn't class Saudi Sportswashing Machine home as a good performance tbh. For the first 15 minutes they blitzed us and could have been 2-0 up...eventually we got our act together but it shouldn't take going a goal down to do that. Norwich was good though but we've since seen every big team hammer them.

So why was he able to immediately work out a successful system away from home but not at the Lane? in your opinion..

Chelsea first half was excellent and Everton was too

The ability of the players is there but they need to be moulded into a team

The reason why we're better away is that we play a tight system that restricts room with the high line and Soldado dropping ever deeper. Games are won in midfield and away from home we normally dominate that area

At home when the opposition do the same as us away you need to be more creative in your systems. It's why Chelsea have struggled this season against their expectations but a Liverpool haven't. Liverpoo have played 3 at the back at home in some games and it's worked. They have also played 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 and that's worked too... It's variety that takes away the predictability and at home we incredibly predictable

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

why is it easy to 'bed' all these new players and produce good away performances immediately but suddenly at the Lane we play like a disjointed bunch of strangers?

I don't think the problem has been bedding in new players either. It's been replacing bales goals full stop with no one scoring.

We haven't had one game that I remember with more than 4 new players playing and their all capable individuals with some experience so it's an excuse but a relatively poor one.

The issue has been is how do you replace 30 plus goals....

We have 9 new players by the way as you need to include Townsend and. Rose in that mix and arguably Kaboul too who has been out for the whole of AVBs time here

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Chelsea first half was excellent and Everton was too

The ability of the players is there but they need to be moulded into a team

The reason why we're better away is that we play a tight system that restricts room with the high line and Soldado dropping ever deeper. Games are won in midfield and away from home we normally dominate that area

At home when the opposition do the same as us away you need to be more creative in your systems. It's why Chelsea have struggled this season against their expectations but a Liverpool haven't. Liverpoo have played 3 at the back at home in some games and it's worked. They have also played 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 and that's worked too... It's variety that takes away the predictability and at home we incredibly predictable

That's exactly my point. We're failing at home because of the system he persists with...nothing to do with the seven new signings 'bedding in'.

At Chelski it was the same. They had lost 3 home games before Christmas...can you imagine that? a title challenging team losing 3 home LEAGUE games before Christmas? imo his system is flawed beyond belief at home and unless he changed it we would be producing the same brand of football and results (unless we continued to get extremely lucky with referee decisions) for years to come.

Edit: Everton was away btw.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

That's exactly my point. We're failing at home because of the system he persists with...nothing to do with the seven new signings 'bedding in'.

At Chelski it was the same. They had lost 3 home games before Christmas...can you imagine that? a title challenging team losing 3 home LEAGUE games before Christmas? imo his system is flawed beyond belief at home and unless he changed it we would be producing the same brand of football and results (unless we continued to get extremely lucky with referee decisions) for years to come.

Edit: Everton was away btw.

Yeah I went to Everton and their fans were truly stunned by how good we were

I was just picking out decent performances irrelevant of home or away

 

[Sandman]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Yeah I went to Everton and their fans were truly stunned by how good we were

I was just picking out decent performances irrelevant of home or away

What I am also struggling to grasp as well is that it is well known that AVB was a 4-3-3 man. He adapted to 4-2-3-1 when he came to spurs as he said this was a better way to transition the team that Harry had built. But into his second season and with seven new players and not only were we still playing 4-2-3-1 but he was sticking to it stubbornly. I know a lot of people say that formations dont mean much. But if you are working on a structure to a side and how players move into cetain positions in attack, defence and transtion then their intitial positioning is ingrained in their training.

I always thought that 4-3-3 was a more attacking formation with the fullbacks supporting the midfield and only one defensive minded player in the midfield three with one ball player and one attacking mid.

Maybe with our reserve teams playing a 4-3-3 we might see a line up like that tonight.

Along the lines of:

---------------------------Lloris------------------------------

Walker-----Chrices---------Fryers-------------Rose

-------------------------Sandro-----------------------------
----------Eriksen----------------------Holtby--------------

--------Townsend--------------------Lamela------------
--------------------------Soldado----------------------------

Hopefully we will let that front 5 harry the oppostion and the defensive line sit back a little more to contain the space in between the back line and the goal.

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

What I am also struggling to grasp as well is that it is well known that AVB was a 4-3-3 man. He adapted to 4-2-3-1 when he came to spurs as he said this was a better way to transition the team that Harry had built. But into his second season and with seven new players and not only were we still playing 4-2-3-1 but he was sticking to it stubbornly. I know a lot of people say that formations dont mean much. But if you are working on a structure to a side and how players move into cetain positions in attack, defence and transtion then their intitial positioning is ingrained in their training.

I always thought that 4-3-3 was a more attacking formation with the fullbacks supporting the midfield and only one defensive minded player in the midfield three with one ball player and one attacking mid.

Maybe with our reserve teams playing a 4-3-3 we might see a line up like that tonight.

Along the lines of:

---------------------------Lloris------------------------------

Walker-----Chrices---------Fryers-------------Rose

-------------------------Sandro-----------------------------
----------Eriksen----------------------Holtby--------------

--------Townsend--------------------Lamela------------
--------------------------Soldado----------------------------

Hopefully we will let that front 5 harry the oppostion and the defensive line sit back a little more to contain the space in between the back line and the goal.

That's exactly the type of team i feel we should be putting out. No need for two DM's, especially at home. Sandro has proved he is capable of looking after his defence since he's been with us.

Erikson and Holtby can be rotated with Dembele and Paulinho, with Lennon, Siggy, Chadli, Ade and Defoe rotating with that front three. My only concern with the actual formation would be the strikers receiving service through crosses into the box. That can be remedied by having more of a flat midfield with Lennon and Townsend on either flank perhaps?

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

What I am also struggling to grasp as well is that it is well known that AVB was a 4-3-3 man. He adapted to 4-2-3-1 when he came to spurs as he said this was a better way to transition the team that Harry had built. But into his second season and with seven new players and not only were we still playing 4-2-3-1 but he was sticking to it stubbornly. I know a lot of people say that formations dont mean much. But if you are working on a structure to a side and how players move into cetain positions in attack, defence and transtion then their intitial positioning is ingrained in their training.

I always thought that 4-3-3 was a more attacking formation with the fullbacks supporting the midfield and only one defensive minded player in the midfield three with one ball player and one attacking mid.

Maybe with our reserve teams playing a 4-3-3 we might see a line up like that tonight.

Along the lines of:

---------------------------Lloris------------------------------

Walker-----Chrices---------Fryers-------------Rose

-------------------------Sandro-----------------------------
----------Eriksen----------------------Holtby--------------

--------Townsend--------------------Lamela------------
--------------------------Soldado----------------------------

Hopefully we will let that front 5 harry the oppostion and the defensive line sit back a little more to contain the space in between the back line and the goal.

Sandro is out so Capoue to start in the DM role. I would also start Lamela on the right and Townsend on the left but yeh i wouldn't mind at all if that was the team tonight.

 

[Nezza]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

That's exactly the type of team i feel we should be putting out. No need for two DM's, especially at home. Sandro has proved he is capable of looking after his defence since he's been with us.

Erikson and Holtby can be rotated with Dembele and Paulinho, with Lennon, Siggy, Chadli, Ade and Defoe rotating with that front three. My only concern with the actual formation would be the strikers receiving service through crosses into the box. That can be remedied by having more of a flat midfield with Lennon and Townsend on either flank perhaps?

Presumably the "wide ball crossed in" is provided by the "wing backs" (for want of a better name) getting forward.

Interesting article here - final paragraph:-

The question, then, is whether, given how modern full-backs play often as wide midfielders, Parreira's 4-6 vision of the future has been overtaken by a 3-7, either as three centre-backs or two centre-backs with a destroyer just in front of them. That is another discussion, but what is true is that to speak of a holding role is merely to describe a player's position on the pitch and not how he interprets it.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Friedel says players backed AVB

http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/premierleague/story/friedel-says-tottenham-players-were-behind-villas-boas-121813

Brad Friedel has dismissed reports Andre Villas-Boas lost the Tottenham dressing room, insisting none of the players wanted to see him leave.

Villas-Boas was fired on Monday following Spurs' 5-0 demolition at home by Liverpool, with some reports claiming he had lost the support of his players.

But speaking on FOX Soccer Daily, Friedel insisted the entire squad was behind the Portuguese coach.

"I think all the players in the changing room really wanted things to work out for Andre," the United States goalkeeper said.

"From day one that he came to the club, (he had an) open door policy, very good communication with the players. None of us were happy to see him go.

"We still have to continue to have a very good team spirit, which I know we will.

"We have a lot of quality in the changing room.

"I'm sure the board are going to be hiring a very good manager to take us forward, who the players will all be behind again, because, at the end of the day, we are employed by Tottenham Hotspur Football Club, not by the manager they're bringing in.

"We just have to try to adhere to all of his ideas and try to get results for the football club."

I think this is a little worrying, and ties in with some reports suggesting the players want to be assured the club has a strategy in place. It sounds like they didn't really see the need for AVB to go, and that if it is just going to be Sherwood they won't exactly be thrilled.

I'm not saying it won't work out, but it seems from the players POV that that didn't want AVB to go, and now that he has they are expecting a big name to justify it. Sherwood may be very good but if he doesn't match up to AVB's skill on the training pitch or when handling players they could reject it and force us into a big name panic appointment which does no one any good.

...It could all end up working fine though