Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[Raziel]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

why defoe and ade?

No idea the OP reasoning, but my thoughts might yield similar results

- Ade is on high wages, had an awful season last season and seemingly is now never available
- JD is the same as he has always been, will score in cups and the occasional hot streak, and lots of persistent rumours that he wants out to MLS anyway.
- Soldado may not have proved himself, but needs a little more time and a little more service before we discard that investment.

My view is a LB and a Striker that can play both alone and with Soldado are our must buys for January.

 

[Bullet]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I agree with whoever said our system is to win the ball back, knock it around a bit to cement the fact that we are in possession, and then slowly work our way towards their goal taking >1 touch each time... so inevitably they are sat back with 8 players waiting for us to break down.

At that point we need to either lump it into a GIANT footballer to attack versus the centre backs, or create intricate triangles to break through the defence, or get to the byline with wingers and cut it back low.

We don't own a giant, so we should either be trying intricate triangles or getting to the byline. But we do neither, we go side to side to side to side until someone larrups a shot goalward.

Do we think AVB wants to get forward more quickly, so we don't have to beat 8 men every time? Or will we get better at the triangles or getting to the byline with wingers? Lennon is about the only indication this might happen.

 

[Raziel]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I agree with whoever said our system is to win the ball back, knock it around a bit to cement the fact that we are in possession, and then slowly work our way towards their goal taking >1 touch each time... so inevitably they are sat back with 8 players waiting for us to break down.

Do we think AVB wants to get forward more quickly, so we don't have to beat 8 men every time? Or will we get better at the triangles or getting to the byline with wingers? Lennon is about the only indication this might happen.

I believe that Soldado in particular was a purchase made expecting we would keep Bale

Bale/Lennon in front of Sandro/Paulinho/Chadli, feeding Soldado would have us (how teams are playing this season) chasing the title.

We need a winger, opposite to Lennon to stretch the opposition (vs. staying narrow which allows them to pack the middle)

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

why defoe and ade?

Because by and large Ade has not worked out.....has shown what a good player he is in flashes but is a player not driven enough to be part of a club pushing to reach the next level.

Defoe is Defoe and we know what he can do and his limitations.....he wont get any better and his frustrations at not playing are showing in his peformances. squad harmony wise we may be better off without the 'poor Jermaine he is not playing' syndrome which seems to be buzzing round our club.

AVB needs to sort the top end out....I would genuinely prefer two new hungry strikers with potential to improve and an attitude to succeed which I think defoe and ade lack......I think they both have ability as footballers but I think there attitude is all wrong........Defoe for me has never been a team player for me.

the other issue for Avb to consider is Dawson imo.... I love the guy and have fantastic memories but recently he has showed how limited he is against a certain skillset of opponents.....quick movement, pace he looks utterly woebegone..... I want him to remain as a squad player but not first choice....

so for me Im gonna see how things pan out and observe what he does with the following problems I believe that are affecting/holding back our club.

1. get lb sorted so verts can play lcb and vlad & Kaboul ahead of Dawson.
2. start with wingers on their natural side and switch to inverted if needs must.
3. soldado,Defoe & ade is a bad mix.....something has to give and as I stated I would prefer Ade & Defoe to move then we reinvest.
4. how we start games.....causing concern recently....we need to be proactive in games not reactive.

If we can get LB sorted verts happy and in his best position and the defoe and ade issues resolved we should start seeing better results on the pitch.......that's what I think anyway.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I have to say I see a lot of similarities between where we are right now and Kenny Dalglish's Liverpool two years ago:

- a fanbase that is dividing between those backing the manager mainly on stats ('look how many shots we've had'; 'if only those shots would go in, we'd be much further up the table') and those who don't see any future with the football being played generally

I think our fanbase is divided because we appointed someone so different from the previous incumbent, who did manage to achieve a relative level of success. I think the argument that we aren't creating real chances is over-stated though. We did last night. We did against United. We did against Norwich. We did against Cardiff. We did against Chelsea. We did against Villa (twice) this season. We did against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. In some games, such as West Ham at home and Everton away, we didn't create real good chances despite having lots of shots. But I think it's unfair to say that every game it's the same old problems. If Paulinho and Defoe could finish last night the discussion of the game would be a lot different and that's nothing to do with systems or tactics.

- spent shedloads in the summer, and open to being told several of the summer buys have been paid over the odds for (Carrol/Downing/Henderson vs Soldado/Lamela/Paulinho?)

We spent but after losing a key player. I also think we have bought far better than Liverpool, spreading our signings across the squad and not wasting money in particular areas. Our signings are young, have potential but are foreign and most don't speak the language yet. Liverpool's were English players and they paid way over the odds for all of them. Also, Liverpool's squad wasn't as good compared to the rest of the league as ours is, and they didn't really deserve to be any higher than they were. We are better than they were, and I think over 38 games that will show.

- large portion of the fanbase who fully expect a top 4 challenge given the team performance the previous season and the subsequent summer buys

It does appear that way, and it appears our board is demanding it too. I think some appreciation of the fact we sold our best player and replaced with foreign youngsters mostly is missing though. Liverpool may have expected a top 4 challenge but they were nowhere near good enough to actually get it.

- a generally misfiring striker who pundits commonly say 'the team are not playing to his strengths' (Carrol vs Soldado)

We'll see at the end of the season, but I think in a month or two Soldado will be looking like a different player. He was signed for a system in mind. I have no way of definitely saying it will all come good with him, but I'm confident that it will. Carroll was English, knows this league and I don't think his problem was settling in to a new country, I think he was just nowhere near as good as they needed him to be for a 30M investment. Once Soldado is through the initial '6 month' settling in phase that is being referred to a lot lately, then we will more easily be able to judge.

- up until January/February always being able to point out that 'we're only 3/4/5/6 points away from the top 4'

Same as last year though, second half of the season we were bang in it where as in November time we were down in 7th/8th. I'm confident we will be up there again.

- solid defensively, semi-turgid/predictable going forward

- generally better against top 4/5 sides who will attack rather than bottom half sides who will be more cagey and/or sit deep

I've explained why in this thread I believe we play like we do. I think there's a reason we play quicker football in tougher games and slower football in easier ones.

I'd like those posting in this thread, especially those very very pro-AVB, to tell me addressing the points above how we are NOT like Liverpool in Dalglish's last season.

I think the key thing is that simply, their squad was no where near good enough for a top 4 push, where as ours is. Over a season I think we will show that, particularly as last year we stepped it up after a tricky November.

Statto, any additional evidence either way that you can provide would be most welcome

Answers in bold mate.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Try reading his post again:

"Assuming there is a system, if its not embedded in the team after a season and a half then you may as well not have one! "

So, taking that into individual parts;

1) Come up with a system to achieve your objectives
2) Wait an arbitrary amount of time to see if the system is working. Said amount of time requires no relevance to the actual time required to achieve objectives.
3) Give up on system

My analogy fits pretty well I'd say.

At some point you have to evaluate the system against your objectives and either change it or abandon it and go with another one. It depends on what objectives AVB has agreed with Levy. If his main objective is to be better off at this stage of the season (in terms of points) than we were last year, then there's going to be no change anytime soon. If his objective is to be playing free-flowing attractive football whilst winning games then he's going to have to change something. Its all relative.

This assumes AVB has agreed some objectives with Levy for this year, I'm also assuming that they will have agreed some sort of time frame to complete them. So I don't think your second point is valid because I the amount of time is not arbitary, it is related to the objectives. The key questions are what objectives has AVB identified and how long has Levy given him to acheive them. Is he currently on track to deliver his objectives on time, or is he struggling.

As a fan and therefore a major stakeholder in AVB's project, he's not satistying my expectations as we are (the majority of the time) incredibly boring to watch. But this doesn't mean every fan isn't happy, and it doesn't mean that Levy isn't happy.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I believe that Soldado in particular was a purchase made expecting we would keep Bale

Bale/Lennon in front of Sandro/Paulinho/Chadli, feeding Soldado would have us (how teams are playing this season) chasing the title.

We need a winger, opposite to Lennon to stretch the opposition (vs. staying narrow which allows them to pack the middle)

AVB was playing Bale in the number 10 role though and had indicated that's where he wanted him to stay

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Really worrying couple of articles here from the Standard, it seems like the board do have some concerns about AVB. I can appreciate some people on here may say 'Thank Goodness!' or even simply appreciate that they are airing legitimate concerns. But to me, if we want stability at this football club, we should not be setting arbitary goals about needing to win this or that game etc. Football can be cruel, the best team can get unlucky, but ultimately if the players are behind the manager and they believe he can be a success then that should be the end of it. I have a lot of respect for Arsenal's board that seemingly never intended to let go of Wenger even during some of their bad runs. Having these grumbles puts unnecessary pressure on the team, and you could tell last night when Chiriches' goal went in that AVB was genuinely relieved, like if we didn't win this game his job is in jeopardy.

I think that's bull**** to be honest, the board got their hopes up and were very proud of themselves for doing some excellent transfer business this summer. But I feel they did not take into account the settling in period of foreign players and AVB is getting the blame for that rather than the board acknowledging that selling Bale would have further reprocussions. Apparently they 'expected to be higher than 6th' at this stage which I think it's such a macaronic idea to have, considering we are 3 points off 4th and the league is so tight.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...nd-let-andre-villasboas-carry-on-8985097.html

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...nch-month-after-talks-with-board-8985324.html

 

[Jordinho]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Did Liverpool outplay us last season at the lane, I don't remember the game off hand. Or did they just have lots of possession, like AVB is getting criticized for now?

Genuine question by the way as I don't remember the game.

Liverpool, Southampton and Everton are being used as excuses to criticise AVB.

According to Liverpool fans a lot of their performances this season has been poor to average. Against Hull they were a total shambles. They are being bailed out by two individual players in top form.

Southampton have lost 3 in a row now and will be lucky to win any of their next six. Come January they'll be nowhere near the top 4.

Everton have a settled squad, extremely solid at the back prior to Martinez' arrival. He's got them playing a more passing style, but how long will they keep it up defensively? Wigan were leaking goals from all directions.

Funny how when we score it's a fluke, papering over the cracks, but when Liverpool or Chelsea do it it's because they have match winners.

Our last three league games have been nothing like the "dross we usually serve up". Anyone saying that is just showing their agendas. We have been much more open and created a lot more chances, but that also mean looking shakier at the back. If not for poor finishing we'd have scored twice as many goals by now, but since we haven't it means mistakes are that much more costly. I wish we'd rack up even more possession against the ****e teams, too much back and forth isn't entertaining, it's torture. AVB's task now is to find the right balance.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

At some point you have to evaluate the system against your objectives and either change it or abandon it and go with another one.

Agreed. My issue is with those who wish to abandon the system way in advance of any time frame that is even vaguely reasonable.

Few would argue that Ferguson is one of the greatest managers ever to have graced the English football scene - the same could likely be said about Burkinshaw and Nicholson. If they couldn't complete their objectives in under 1.5 years then why should we expect anyone else to?

It depends on what objectives AVB has agreed with Levy. If his main objective is to be better off at this stage of the season (in terms of points) than we were last year, then there's going to be no change anytime soon. If his objective is to be playing free-flowing attractive football whilst winning games then he's going to have to change something. Its all relative.

This assumes AVB has agreed some objectives with Levy for this year, I'm also assuming that they will have agreed some sort of time frame to complete them. So I don't think your second point is valid because I the amount of time is not arbitary, it is related to the objectives. The key questions are what objectives has AVB identified and how long has Levy given him to acheive them. Is he currently on track to deliver his objectives on time, or is he struggling.

I'm not sure there are points that you or I could see watching from the stands that are measurable objectives in such a project. If you can think of any reasonably, objective, measurable signs then I'd be interested to hear of them.

As a fan and therefore a major stakeholder in AVB's project, he's not satistying my expectations as we are (the majority of the time) incredibly boring to watch. But this doesn't mean every fan isn't happy, and it doesn't mean that Levy isn't happy.

Quite right. I think much of the problem with AVB comes from patience. I am willing to wait for a longer-term plan to come to fruition - we've cancelled too many of them part way through in my lifetime. Some aren't - some want instant success and for us to instantly play the way they want. We could probably achieve that for one year but even trying (without the guarantee of success) would probably hamper our attempts to repeat the feat for a number of years. Added to which, a single successful season (by our standards) still doesn't involve guarantee any trophies.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

At some point you have to evaluate the system against your objectives and either change it or abandon it and go with another one. It depends on what objectives AVB has agreed with Levy. If his main objective is to be better off at this stage of the season (in terms of points) than we were last year, then there's going to be no change anytime soon. If his objective is to be playing free-flowing attractive football whilst winning games then he's going to have to change something. Its all relative.

This assumes AVB has agreed some objectives with Levy for this year, I'm also assuming that they will have agreed some sort of time frame to complete them. So I don't think your second point is valid because I the amount of time is not arbitary, it is related to the objectives. The key questions are what objectives has AVB identified and how long has Levy given him to acheive them. Is he currently on track to deliver his objectives on time, or is he struggling.

As a fan and therefore a major stakeholder in AVB's project, he's not satistying my expectations as we are (the majority of the time) incredibly boring to watch. But this doesn't mean every fan isn't happy, and it doesn't mean that Levy isn't happy.

I reckon Levy's objectives for AVB will be to have us qualifying for the CL by the end of his 3 year contract, with zero net spend. Remember he's the sustainable manager to get us through the ground-funding years.

I'd imagine AVB's objective for AVB is to challenge for the title next season (and it would have been this if Bale had stayed.

Really worrying couple of articles here from the Standard, it seems like the board do have some concerns about AVB. I can appreciate some people on here may say 'Thank Goodness!' or even simply appreciate that they are airing legitimate concerns. But to me, if we want stability at this football club, we should not be setting arbitary goals about needing to win this or that game etc. Football can be cruel, the best team can get unlucky, but ultimately if the players are behind the manager and they believe he can be a success then that should be the end of it. I have a lot of respect for Arsenal's board that seemingly never intended to let go of Wenger even during some of their bad runs. Having these grumbles puts unnecessary pressure on the team, and you could tell last night when Chiriches' goal went in that AVB was genuinely relieved, like if we didn't win this game his job is in jeopardy.

I think that's bull**** to be honest, the board got their hopes up and were very proud of themselves for doing some excellent transfer business this summer. But I feel they did not take into account the settling in period of foreign players and AVB is getting the blame for that rather than the board acknowledging that selling Bale would have further reprocussions. Apparently they 'expected to be higher than 6th' at this stage which I think it's such a macaronic idea to have, considering we are 3 points off 4th and the league is so tight.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...nd-let-andre-villasboas-carry-on-8985097.html

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...nch-month-after-talks-with-board-8985324.html

So is this the same Standard that Levy had a spat with in 2007 and banned from the club?

I'd imagine they'd be the last place with a hotline to our boardroom.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Really worrying couple of articles here from the Standard, it seems like the board do have some concerns about AVB. I can appreciate some people on here may say 'Thank Goodness!' or even simply appreciate that they are airing legitimate concerns. But to me, if we want stability at this football club, we should not be setting arbitary goals about needing to win this or that game etc. Football can be cruel, the best team can get unlucky, but ultimately if the players are behind the manager and they believe he can be a success then that should be the end of it. I have a lot of respect for Arsenal's board that seemingly never intended to let go of Wenger even during some of their bad runs. Having these grumbles puts unnecessary pressure on the team, and you could tell last night when Chiriches' goal went in that AVB was genuinely relieved, like if we didn't win this game his job is in jeopardy.

I think that's bull**** to be honest, the board got their hopes up and were very proud of themselves for doing some excellent transfer business this summer. But I feel they did not take into account the settling in period of foreign players and AVB is getting the blame for that rather than the board acknowledging that selling Bale would have further reprocussions. Apparently they 'expected to be higher than 6th' at this stage which I think it's such a macaronic idea to have, considering we are 3 points off 4th and the league is so tight.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...nd-let-andre-villasboas-carry-on-8985097.html

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...nch-month-after-talks-with-board-8985324.html

"Express Sport understands"

"It is said"

That's journo speak for "I just made the next bit up" - they've not even attributed it to an anonymous insider/source.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

"Express Sport understands"

"It is said"

That's journo speak for "I just made the next bit up" - they've not even attributed it to an anonymous insider/source.

What do you think about Barclay's assertion that AVB's under constant scrutiny from the board? Along with Castles talking about Hoddle as a serious choice, it seems like there's no smoke without fire. Yesterday I was hoping that it was more the old school of the board vs the new school but if Levy really is getting itchy feet it's going to be bloody annoying.

You're probably right though. It's just the idea that we should be putting our manager under undue pressure when 3 points off our target for the season and with over 20 games to go that bugs me.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

What do you think about Barclay's assertion that AVB's under constant scrutiny from the board? Along with Castles talking about Hoddle as a serious choice, it seems like there's no smoke without fire. Yesterday I was hoping that it was more the old school of the board vs the new school but if Levy really is getting itchy feet it's going to be bloody annoying.

You're probably right though. It's just the idea that we should be putting our manager under undue pressure when 3 points off our target for the season and with over 20 games to go that bugs me.

I think Barclay is full of ****.

If there's any senior employee at our club that isn't under constant scrutiny from the board, then the board isn't doing its job.

I don't rate the info from Castles much more than most journalists. He may get to speak to AVB from time to time, but that doesn't mean that there aren't column inches to fill. If there's a story the editors want writing then he has to write it.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I do think there is something in the idea that the club thought this could be 'the year' we put in a serious title challenge, as if we would have no problems of our own and everyone else would be in disarray.

Obviously they rated AVB enough to think that was realistic but because it hasn't gone how they thought it would it seems he is the one carrying the can. I think that's particularly unfair. I was expecting us to be able to challenge but most people on here weren't to be fair - I got it wrong!

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Did Liverpool outplay us last season at the lane, I don't remember the game off hand. Or did they just have lots of possession, like AVB is getting criticized for now?

Genuine question by the way as I don't remember the game.

they fully deserved to win at the Lane, we fully deserved to win at Anfield. it was bizarre!!!

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Good Post Nigey.



AVB has had some stick this season that the reason we are not playing as coherently as we could is that he is rotating and he "needs to find his best 11 and stick with it" but I am of the opinion that once a 'system' is properly embedded and understood by every player in the squad then it negates the need for a 'regular' 11 as each player will absolutely know the role they are required to play.

I think this is AVB's ultimate aim which is why it will take time for this to happen.

Once the system is in place and adaptable to any player within the squad in their respective position then we will absolutely reap the rewards throughout a long season. The 'team' should never be tired and can be changed at will to ensure there is no loss of focus or energy on the pitch.

imo.

=D>

Absolutely. I agree and said similar myself in the summer…

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

What do you think about Barclay's assertion that AVB's under constant scrutiny from the board? Along with Castles talking about Hoddle as a serious choice, it seems like there's no smoke without fire. Yesterday I was hoping that it was more the old school of the board vs the new school but if Levy really is getting itchy feet it's going to be bloody annoying.

You're probably right though. It's just the idea that we should be putting our manager under undue pressure when 3 points off our target for the season and with over 20 games to go that bugs me.

You know when you talk about the board, it's not a big room filled with grey suited old men any more. We actually only have 4 directors now, and two of them are non-executive and only pick up odd projects.

'The board' is basically Levy and Collecott.

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/the-club/investor-relations/club-directors/

I think Barclay is full of ****.

If there's any senior employee at our club that isn't under constant scrutiny from the board, then the board isn't doing its job.

I don't rate the info from Castles much more than most journalists. He may get to speak to AVB from time to time, but that doesn't mean that there aren't column inches to fill. If there's a story the editors want writing then he has to write it.

Castles is Mourinho's pal, rather than AVB's.

I think he's usually reasonably fair towards AVB, but he's certainly not on his speed-dial like Jason Burt is.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Liverpool, Southampton and Everton are being used as excuses to criticise AVB.

According to Liverpool fans a lot of their performances this season has been poor to average. Against Hull they were a total shambles. They are being bailed out by two individual players in top form.

Southampton have lost 3 in a row now and will be lucky to win any of their next six. Come January they'll be nowhere near the top 4.

Everton have a settled squad, extremely solid at the back prior to Martinez' arrival. He's got them playing a more passing style, but how long will they keep it up defensively? Wigan were leaking goals from all directions.

Funny how when we score it's a fluke, papering over the cracks, but when Liverpool or Chelsea do it it's because they have match winners.

Our last three league games have been nothing like the "dross we usually serve up". Anyone saying that is just showing their agendas. We have been much more open and created a lot more chances, but that also mean looking shakier at the back. If not for poor finishing we'd have scored twice as many goals by now, but since we haven't it means mistakes are that much more costly. I wish we'd rack up even more possession against the ****e teams, too much back and forth isn't entertaining, it's torture. AVB's task now is to find the right balance.

I think people on both sides of this debate are exaggerating. We have missed chances in the last couple of games, but for the most part this season we haven't created nearly as many as you make out. Most of our shots have been from outside the area.

I am not saying we can't or won't improve as the season progresses, but it's silly to say we could have scored twice as many if not for poor finishing.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Really worrying couple of articles here from the Standard, it seems like the board do have some concerns about AVB. I can appreciate some people on here may say 'Thank Goodness!' or even simply appreciate that they are airing legitimate concerns. But to me, if we want stability at this football club, we should not be setting arbitary goals about needing to win this or that game etc. Football can be cruel, the best team can get unlucky, but ultimately if the players are behind the manager and they believe he can be a success then that should be the end of it. I have a lot of respect for Arsenal's board that seemingly never intended to let go of Wenger even during some of their bad runs. Having these grumbles puts unnecessary pressure on the team, and you could tell last night when Chiriches' goal went in that AVB was genuinely relieved, like if we didn't win this game his job is in jeopardy.

I think that's bull**** to be honest, the board got their hopes up and were very proud of themselves for doing some excellent transfer business this summer. But I feel they did not take into account the settling in period of foreign players and AVB is getting the blame for that rather than the board acknowledging that selling Bale would have further reprocussions. Apparently they 'expected to be higher than 6th' at this stage which I think it's such a macaronic idea to have, considering we are 3 points off 4th and the league is so tight.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...nd-let-andre-villasboas-carry-on-8985097.html

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...nch-month-after-talks-with-board-8985324.html

I do feel last night was a must win for AVB. Whilst we are still in touch with the top 4, his job is safe as houses. Lose a few on the trot and it will be a different story.