Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[Jurgen the German]

forget 4th, if he does that then he;s matched harry...thats not even what i'm talking about. i rate 4th, others dont otherwise they wouldnt use losing third as a reason to get rid of harry

yes i understand that many factors go into a managers finishing position. yet that never stopped the good managers making the players get to the level that they should have been getting.

the whole argument for Harry was that he reached a celing (something i agree with but i never really know what ceiling it was cause he didnt get financial backing) ,
further more people BLAME harry for not finishing 3rd...
Also people felt that Harry should leave cause he didnt get the most out of THIS current squad of players

for someone new to come in and be excused of ALL the above when harry was not i think is cold blooded murder. it just is not fair. People say that Harry got to where he was because of the squad he had and because he had good man management skills. Why should we let the new guy off the hook in his first full season when Harry wasnt even praised for his initial work or his first full season?

of we finish one point behind 5th? no problem....if we are clearly not in the top four mix and hovering in and out of the next tier..i.e 8th to 6th (or even 5th depending on the spread) then someone needs to answer for that, especially seeing as Harry needed to answer for alot the year we finished 5th!!! We finished FIFTH and people were still dumping on harry redknapp. yet some new unproven guy comes in and those same people wont give him the same courtesy or judge him on the same bar?

sounds like a lynching to me. you know the thing people do when they dont have anything tangible or enough to go on in court but demand execution anyway.

if we finish 7th? AVB has fudged up i think...if we finished 6th and there is a clear seperation in quality, results and performances between us and the top 5? he has fudged up. our squad with alittle bit of tinkering was good enough for 4th and MINIMUM was good enough to challenge for 4th year on year. If we suddenly drop to the lower tier where it looks like we dont have a shot at 4th? pre-jol days..., AVB has fudged up.

Normally i would be like "give this guy time"....but looking back on the treatment harry got from certain corners i wont let this guy slide with a blanket statement..."oh he is new, and so many different things can happen to affect things".......no one gave that to Harry did they? and he finished 4th and STILL got it in the neck.

Great post!

 

[Jurgen the German]

Just so were clear then, people won't mind if we finish 7th this season and Bale fudges off? Because that is what will happen.

 

[billyiddo]

that is rich, funny and massively ironic considering people werent happy with 4th and primarily moaned because we lost third. you say its few? think about it........Harry's personal character aside (i can understand why people would want him gone cause of that) what other TANGIBLE reason is there to want him gone. what can you actually point to and prove that he did wrong that people wanted him gone?
i WISH we didnt lose that thread during the site crash ...............grrrrrrr

face it people were tinkled that harry lost third after he himself got us there..with nearly the same sqaud as the next guy has which apparently wont even matter if he gets 6th or not, let alone 4th. that just sounds like biased opinions to me

did you judge harry on his three years? what was your conclusion?

infact, why did you want harry gone?

it has all been discussed, at length, why people wanted Redknapp gone and i don't want to turn this thread, which is about Villa Boas, in to another Redknapp slanging competition - I realize I have brought him up a couple of times recently but it's more in an attempt to get people to look past him now and give the new guy a clean slate

the Chelsea remark was a cheap shot and i apologize but im just at a loss as to why people are so quick to be giving the new manager a "if you don't achieve this you have failed" benchmark in his first season, it just wreaks of shortsighted pressure that i think we are better than and yes something i would attribute to clubs like Chelsea.

did i judge Redknapp on his 3 years ? yes i did - although the first team improved the squad lost depth and it's focus on youth evaporated, two seasons in a row we fell away in the second half of the season, we constantly failed to overcome teams which shut up shop against us indicating a lack of a plan b or tactical progression - in short after a great first full season we never really made any great strides forward and with the possibility of losing some big players i was not confident with his ability to replace them with the type of caliber player we would require in order to continue at this level - it was clear he and Levy were at odds with each others transfer policy and i back Levy when it comes to that particular point all day long.

 

[Superted]

Tad over reactive I think. The reason I do it is because the history on the site gets deleted after a certain period of time. It helps weed out the WUM's and more importantly the utter hypocrits. And it's the hypocrits who just aren't worth debating with so I'd rather know that before I even begin to try.

What's scary is that you keep detailed lists on the activity of users on here. The bridge between that and stalker/serial killer seems quite narrow.

(Just realised I should probably start being nice to you, oh wise one)

 

[africanspurs]

I was very ambiguous about Harry staying or leaving. Could see good arguments for both, in the end when he went I found myself happy about it although I would probably have been happy had he signed a new contract as well as at that point I just wanted it resolved.

yeah , i'm not sure if that was a yes or no. which side where you arguing for? i think that would pretty much resove which side you were on during the fracas (it might not have been what you truly felt your opinions were but it would certainly show which side you were leaning more towards)

Not talking about being happy with not getting the best out of the resources we have, but if we see improvements in play and style over the season and the team keeps improving that will be important as well as the final table position we find ourselves in. I think we might struggle a bit at first with several new players and a newish style of play. I can accept that and thus accept that the results might vary for a while if I see us moving forward.

so if we play better, defend better then we did over the past three years (where we set records under harry and did wrigglys 4-5-4) and the teams style of play and performance keep on improving..even beyond the already initial improvement made on Harry's team.....then the results we get will be equally as important as the improvment made? Okay, that sounds obviously true...but then with all that improvement on the quality and performances behind the 4-5-4........why on earth would we be regressing AWAY from the cluster of the top 4 or 5 teams in the league when the style and performance under Harry (which i think you might be hinting was not as good as can be) was enough to keep us right in the thick of the top teams point wise

normally i would agree that there is a bedding in period with several new players. so far we have just one guy on board.....we have no idea how many more will come or how they will perform. at least i dont. but why should we cut slack when AVB has a settled and familiar squad? what is he going to do or change thats going to make a once fluid team have teething problems? is he going to persist with this to the point that we have to get a worse output than under harry?

Looking past result doesn't mean ignoring poor runs in my opinion. There were other negatives about Harry that were beyond the results, like playing Modric on the right... The lack of shape and cohesion from just one first team player (Lennon) missing etc.

am glad you say this, cause what it shows is that you are willing to take poor runs into account. i expect you to be on AVB's ass if that happens to us..i.e if we have a poor run. cause clearly the poor run hangs paramount in your mind seeing as you looked past Harry's good results, his good runs and his flirtation with the Title and got stuck into the poor run which was alot less than the good run....funny thing is that Harry got us out of it in the end.

playing modric on the right is a variable significant enough to warrant growing a sack-able gripe? wow..the amazing thing is that i actually think thats one of the better moves Harry has done....maybe not modric in particular but more the idea of playing a wide playmaker and utilising a marauding full back. i guess everyone has their preference,p people so easily forget the wonky and its power. ironically AVB has played ramires, lampard and anelka on the right..though it was a more narrow midfield and not a 442 like ours.

incidentally the lack of shape and cohesion i saw more as a lack of form and confidence flowing through the team. we have played under harry without lennon and looked AMAZING, we have played under Harry without bale and looked AMAZING....yet the two months and a bit that we had a bad run..is THAT we should focus on when saying Harry has 'this and that' that warrant his eviction.

 

[billyiddo]

What's scary is that you keep detailed lists on the activity of users on here. The bridge between that and stalker/serial killer seems quite narrow.

(Just realised I should probably start being nice to you, oh wise one)

with half the board on his ignore list you have to wonder who exactly he is keeping tabs on

 

[Jurgen the German]

People are acting like the entire squad have left us and AVB has a team full of youth players and no experienced players.

 

[africanspurs]

African - you sound like you are worrying far too much about what Redknapp done in his time here and are letting your emotions over the sacking dictate how you rate the new guy. It's not Villa Boas' fault that Redknapp was sacked, what if he had walked for England ? would you still be putting all this pressure on his replacement to immediately replicate what he achieved, in his first season ?


i agree with most of the targets you set him btw, i just don't have this aggressive "OR ELSE" attitude that a lot of people seem to have

agreed with everything here, except i wasnt really as emotionally invested in Harry's sacking as i come across

i'm more of the thing where if i have to be honest, am HUUUUUGELY worried about AVB. i'm talking MASSIVE worry.

why do people seem sure this guy is going to usurp redknapps performance when eventually at the end of the day harry set the bar high

my emotions or should i say argumentative vigour is coming from the idea that people are willing to let things slide with the new guy when they wouldnt stand for it under harry.

i will admit...in hinsight it does come across as "or else"..i should clarify that. i wont be happy with sacking AVB in his first season no matter the situation (save for a total collapse like ramos or say evidence that he doesnt know how to manage or get the players to play well). I think we should give him his contract duration and make a decision afterwards

but dammit if he fudges up ? i want people to say "Dammit, he fudged up!!" thats it. not "oh lets all camp around the fire and tell him hes okay and he did the best job he could"

 

[braineclipse]

People are acting like the entire squad have left us and AVB has a team full of youth players and no experienced players.

Who are?

 

[billyiddo]

i will admit...in hinsight it does come across as "or else"..i should clarify that. i wont be happy with sacking AVB in his first season no matter the situation (save for a total collapse like ramos or say evidence that he doesnt know how to manage or get the players to play well). I think we should give him his contract duration and make a decision afterwards

but dammit if he fudges up ? i want people to say "Dammit, he fudged up!!" thats it. not "oh lets all camp around the fire and tell him hes okay and he did the best job he could"

mate if he fudges up i will be first in line to say so - but im not going to spend his time here bringing up the previous manager as a stick to beat him with (which it looks like people are setting out to do from the beginning) i totally understand why people have reservations about him - but i personally see/feel enough to think positively stepping in to the new era.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

my emotions or should i say argumentative vigour is coming from the idea that people are willing to let things slide with the new guy when they wouldnt stand for it under harry.

I think its more the case that people accept it is a very different situation.

The big appeal with AVB is his preparation, his belief in a system, his focus on discipline etc (the anti Harry?) which will come as a huge change to the players/club.

Its a completely new manager compared to what we had, therefore is it fair to expect him to just pick up Harrys slack and hit the ground running? Or reasonable to accept there will be a period of change and transition?

If it is the latter then it follows that its simply not agreeable to say "things will be a bit rocky for a while" and then "Top 4/3 or else"

As well as that the team is not the same, at all.

It appears we will have a new CB partnership AND a new CM partnership to go along with the new system of play!

The CORE of the team and the CORE of the tactics will be different!

Once again, allowances or consideration to be made.

I think this team is for the top 4. I think a quality manager can achieve that. I also think a new manager to a team should be given a certain amount of grace before those desires are reinforced.

If this season is a top 6 finish, a patchy start but follows with steady improvement - until we reach this time next year in huge excitement for the following season? Ill be a happy man. I hope we can do better than that to be honest, but so long as by the end of the season it is evident AVB has "his" team and its on the right path I am ok

 

[billyiddo]

originally posted by jurgen the german
people are acting like the entire squad have left us and avb has a team full of youth players and no experienced players.



who are?​

last night Jurgen said that we are as good as we were 6 months a go as a squad when some were saying we should have got 3rd/been in the title race and asking why are people shifting the goal posts to say we should be happy with 5th/6th - i pointed out we have lost 2/3's of our strike force our Club captain has seemingly retired and we have sold 3 key squad players (that's 6 players out of a 25 man squad) not to mention a new manager that could take time to instill his beliefs and of course the fact what was a 'settled' squad is now going through some changes

it's entirely reasonable to shift your targets under these circumstances - well not so much the targets but what would be deemed a failure then compared to now

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

What's scary is that you keep detailed lists on the activity of users on here. The bridge between that and stalker/serial killer seems quite narrow.

(Just realised I should probably start being nice to you, oh wise one)

Not detailed lists. Just basic notes and copy/pasted quotes. Just so I can be sure people don't backtrack on their opinions to spin their arguments.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

wouldnt be the first

incidentally i get the reason why you would do this, i just dont believe that you have actually dont it the way that you say you have. cause as long as i have known you , you have always come true when you want to go for the jugular . If you had such a powerful tool as to have someone's posts that directly contradicts something they so viciously argue for it would be a good idea to either PM it to the person or just post it up

on MANY topics people dont even know they contradict themselves. idea and opinions being fluid and constantly evolving and adapting, you wil get these kind of people / things occur. In some cases you could actually help said posters and educate them on how they easily let go of something they think they believe in

you say people change their minds on the regular basis? its a sweeping statement.....it is true, but its sweeping none the less. And there have been times when you have made those comments and they have either been mistakes or they have been false

also one last thing, its always good to assess ones self but have you ever thought of turning your entire post that i have just quoted, PLUS the post where you say you copy and paste people's wavering opinions, BACK on yourself? see how you too may fall victim to the crimes you throw on our doorsteps? no to mention the whole thing about debating and arguing on emotions etc...you'd be surprised how many people might see that in you too

I'm talking about specific people so it's not a sweeping statement. There are a few people who, now I have gathered proof, clearly contradict themselves on a regular basis dependant on what suits their emotional opinion. And I used to go for the jugular, but I realised it was the same posters over and over again and I just don't have the time and energy to continually point out the holes in their opinions. Most people on this forum have sound reasons and logic (even when I disagree with them) for their views and it's that small minority that constantly dig or make sarcastic remarks or who will move the goalposts to suit their perspective. Those are the individuals I have no respect for, and have no interest in debating with. I keep my basic records (I don't have dossiers, it's an Excel spready and it has about 40 line items in it going back a few weeks!) and use the ignore function where required. It's made my GG experience a lot more rewarding as it cuts out so much chaff and I am left reading interesting viewpoints.

 

[Superted]

Alright TMK, I'm taking the tinkle out of you a little (and a bit scared), but I don't know if I'm on your list or not, but in such an emotional subject as football, people are going to change their opinion.

Even you've been a tad hyprocritical with your views on Redknapp v views on AVB. I would direct you to the post, but I don't have it noted. But I remember it, and I remember someone pulling you up on it.

Don't take it all so seriously.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Who are?

I think it's safe to say that many people who wanted AVB to take over (long before the previous Manager was removed) are down playing our chances this season. Which is fine, except many of those are the same people who last year were demanding better from what we achieved. Already we're reading things like "The squad isn't as good as last year", "it's his debut season so he deserves slack", "the actual results next year don't matter as long as we're demonstrating that we have a long term plan in place" etc etc

 

[billyiddo]

I think it's safe to say that many people who wanted AVB to take over (long before the previous Manager was removed) are down playing our chances this season. Which is fine, except many of those are the same people who last year were demanding better from what we achieved. Already we're reading things like "The squad isn't as good as last year", "it's his debut season so he deserves slack", "the actual results next year don't matter as long as we're demonstrating that we have a long term plan in place" etc etc

expecting more from a settled squad (which is 6 players better off than it is now) means we can't lower our immediate expectations for a new manager ?

would you listen to yourself

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Reading the guff coming out of him it occurs to me he should probably put himself on ignore.

Although the resulting paradox might destroy the board forever

 

[Superted]

I fully expect us to start next season a little sluggish. From what I understand, AVB's brand of management is completely different from Henry's 'go out there and run around a bit' philosophy. It's going to take time, which is why I said 7th wouldn't be outright sackable as long as you could see the improvement taking shape by season's end.

 

[Pandy]

I think it's safe to say that many people who wanted AVB to take over (long before the previous Manager was removed) are down playing our chances this season. Which is fine, except many of those are the same people who last year were demanding better from what we achieved. Already we're reading things like "The squad isn't as good as last year", "it's his debut season so he deserves slack", "the actual results next year don't matter as long as we're demonstrating that we have a long term plan in place" etc etc

Let's be honest though expectations have to be very different for AVB than for Redknapp. Redknapp would have been expected to come 4th, he was already used to the club and the players, AVB on the other hand needs to bed in just like any addition. If we are going for a long-term project, which has clearly been Levy's/ENIC's aim arguably since Hoddle, we can expect the first season to involve the foundations being laid. No such thing would have been expected of Harry, therefore he would have been asked to achieve more.

I'm optimistic about AVB's appointment, but I also think we should set lower expectations of him than of Redknapp, but sheerly because this season is going to be one of transition. As long as we don't make significant steps backwards (ie. we are in the hunt for CL football until the very last day) then I would be happy with this season.

This doesn't mean I (or many others) are being over-critical of Redknapp and have a bias towards AVB, I'm just being realistic, in any manager's first season - especially one which is intended as part of a long-term vision - expectations have to be tempered a little bit. It isn't making excuses for him...