Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***
Sorry, but where is the evidence that AVB's philosophies involve fluid play and stuff? Yes, it's clear he likes a high-line and attacking full-backs. I see that every time i see Spurs, with our full-backs pushed up at the half-way line, ready to be done by a long diagonal punt in behind when the last of our 100 sideways passes go astray.
I can see he likes a keeper to be off his line the instant the punt does go over the top. I see that all the time. I can see he values control. But control, while its not park-the-bus defensive, is AVB defending himself too much, its safety-first percentages football.
We retain possession all the time, what do we do with it? Its painful to watch. We don't do anything. And the thing is he did this at Chelsea, all the Chelsea fans I knew said "he'll make you boring to watch and you'll struggle against weak teams and get done on the counter all the time". You know what? I said you're just bitter that he's our new manager. It looks like they may be proved right.
He did this last season, so many games that were boring to watch, but Bale popped up with a goal, or we managed to get one from somewhere.
Pochettino has now got Southampton playing good football, so after half a season? Saints have had to bed in a lot of new players too, intact more players into their first team than we have.
This excuse of all these new players. Only Soldado, Paulinho and Chiriches have regularly started games for us!!! Even if you count Townsend as being new, who basically plays the same as Lennon, but with more shooting, then its still a stretch to explain the devastatingly awful football being played.
I trust what I am seeing, not what AVB wrote in a book while he was at Porto a few years ago, I am seeing a definite choice to play the way we are, basically it is always choose the safe pass, unless you see a stone-wall gap in their defensive make-up and you are sure you can make the pass…it's basically tiring the opposition out and waiting for the mistake.
The problem is in terms of effectiveness is if the mistake never comes, or if it comes, but you don't finish your one or two chances, or if they manage to score, then you're screwed.
Also, to watch its pretty horrible.
So please show me the evidence, as if i'm the jury right now, what i'm getting from you is "ignore all the blood splattered all over his apartment, the DNA traces on her body, the illegally owned shot-gun with his prints all over it…I met the guy a few weeks ago and he told me that he's a really calm kind of dude and he loves his wife, must be what he's really like, because you know, he said so!"
Argggggghhh...I would try and come back to every individual point in detail but I'm really struggling to find the motivation to do it now.
We rarely get done by the instant punt over the top. It happens sometimes, sure. Because EVERY SYSTEM HAS BENEFITS AS WELL AS WEAKNESSES. Any other style anyone else advocates will have just as many weaknesses, and then when something goes against us using that style in a future Spurs team everyone will be saying that is the major issue behind the team. We drop our defensive line deeper? Great, we then allow the opposition the freedom to move into our half, what if they slice us open that way because we haven't gone deep enough to leave space in behind? What if we go really deep to nullify that space, only we don't have the players to block out teams that way and our attacking players can't get on the ball in the oppositions half? There will be a negative to absolutely every system. As it is though the ball over the top rarely catches us out, and as has been said, teams like Chelsea tried it all half and looked foolish because we mopped it up every time. And once we start getting better with the ball, the chances to exploit us that way will be lessened further.
Control is control, it's not defensive. It is control. It's not all out attack let's have a ****ing go at them, but it's not defensive either. It just isn't. And if played well, we pin the opposition back in their half and play the match, and the season, on our terms, dictating ourselves when we increase the tempo and when we rest with the ball. It is how a top club plays.
Southampton have Wanyama in midfield who is basically a 'win the ball and give it simple' kind of guy. Their entire attack is basically the same, with the same attacking full backs and Lovren coming in to defence. Their big attacking signing, Osvaldo has struggled. Does that mean he is destined to be rubbish though? If you were a Saints fan would you want Osvaldo out of Southampton because you have seen with your own eyes that he isn't very good? Or do you give the guy a chance to settle in, get used to the ideas he has been given and see if he can prove his worth?
Well done, you've gotten that 'if we don't score and the opposition score we are screwed' with this choice of system. But what if we start the game by blitzing the opposition, we pepper their goal but they are alert and keep us out. They then exploit our tiredness towards the end of the half and hit us with a goal. We try the same thing second half, try to blitz them but get stung on the counter again. The opposition now shuts up shop while we have expended our energy trying to make early breakthroughs. The problem is you see, if we don't score using that strategy and the opposition does, we are screwed.
Your analogy is flawed because AVB actually has played good football and been successful with previous clubs, he just isn't doing it right now in this stretch of form. His Porto team was good to watch. I'm not just basing it on a book written about him (although it is an interesting read). I think the problem is, with the style he wants to get to, if you aren't doing it well, it doesn't look very good. Even if we do create a lot of chances fans don't seem to appreciate it as much like for example in the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game, many were surprised watching it back how many chances we had. It's because of the nature of the play, we can be on a slow tempo for a good while and all of a sudden a good chance appears out of nowhere. But as I said, if you don't play this system well, it doesn't look good. It looks laboured and almost pointless. Martinez was getting stick at the start of the season for Everton's pointless sideways passing, only after the transfer window they hit a nice bit of form. Potchettino got it last year. AVB gets it too. But once it clicks with us, we will be fine. And I maintain that the Norwich game at the start of the season, while not one of the greatest performances ever, was actually hugely encouraging and better than anything we produced against a lesser team at home in the entirety of last season. It was fluid, the movement was excellent and we had a great tempo. I think that is what we are working towards on a consistent basis and I think it's the fairest assumption to say that once the attacking players 'get it', then we will get back to it.
