Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[inkpenspur]

I'd go for Villa as surprise contender - Lambert is excellent.

However I think it may also just be Everton having not such a bad start and being a bit more consistent this season, getting them in the mix amoungst Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

Both of those are a good shout... I fancy Everton more though. If they can sort out their inability to start the season well, they'll be up there as they tend to become more consistent and difficult to beat... normally just as we are abut to play them at Goodison. But who do you think may drop out??? I'm praying for the goons to go into freefall when RVP leaves on the 31st a la Berbatov!

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Everton have a regular goalscorer now, so I think will be in the top 8 - possibly top 6 contention

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Villa have the worst squad in the league bar Wigan. They've started to make some signings, but there's a long way to go.

That's why it's a surprise.

 

[Raziel]

I disagree with AS re the point of Spurs consistancy, far from it actually.

- Look at Spurs results over the last 7 years -> 14, 9, 5, 5, 11, 8, 4, 5, 5
- If you look at the same time and various other stats, certain things stick out
- Generally a brick away record
- Generally brick against Sky 4 (improving, but our league results against Manure, Scum really hurt)
- Decent home record
- Not enough doubles against bottom 4-6 teams
- Poor conversion rate from set pieces

In my view Tottenham pre 7 years ago was consistantly brick/mediocre with the odd good game (all mid table teams get suprise results), over the last 7 years we have gradually (consistantly?) improved league placings, home form, GD, points total, etc.

What imo the new manager has to do is

- Continue to make WHL a very difficult place for any team to come to.
- Work on away results (tactics or simply making things like set pieces count or killing off games early)
- Make sure and get maximum points from bottom half teams (SAF's big trick, consistantly murder lower teams)
- Improve against rivals (tactics here imo)

Like I said in an earlier post, AVB getting 3rd/4th vs. 5th-7th depends on Ade/Modric staying or going. If we kept both, plus a couple of additions, really don't see a huge transition period.

 

[africanspurs]

So really we could equally be challenging for 3rd or 2nd again as likely as we could be slipping down to 6th.

no definately not. it is certainly not an equal possibility at all. its much more favoured to going down than up. just two basic variables , one being AVB's past chelsea expeience and the other being our historical ability to not maintain consistency. best under redknapp though

It will be very tight. All those clubs have dangerous players. Even Saudi Sportswashing Machine have the likes of Cabaye and Cisse, Liverpool will make signings, Arsenal will always be somewhere there, City and United will always be a threat.

agreed

But we will make signings too. We will be a threat too. If they can take points off us, we can take points off them. I don't neccesarily think it will be a slip down, infact as long as we make intelligent buys there won't be much different from last season IMO. Infact withour speculation linking our manager away for 3 months of it I reckon we may well improve. I can't see much changing. We could be in 3rd, we could be 6th. The league will be tight but that was going to be the case whether Harry was here or not.

you havent really said anything here thats rubber stamped...i.e all you have said is that we could be 3rd or we could be 6th, it will be tight. its a good TV sound bite to sit on the fence and put forward hypotheticals that can sympathise with your stance but lets look at liklehoods.

Chances of liverpool being as they were last season? high or low? chances of them being better? high or low
same for chelsea.

arsenal will always be in the mix, with or without RVP. thats how much wengers system is good.

we 'could' make signings...agreed, but as of right now we dont have Ade...and i am curious who we can buy that can be on his level , when he doesnt play the lone striker thing falls to pieces.

i am saying this, the chances of us improving on last season are slight..that's how high redknapp set the bar.

chances of us staying the same? better

chances of us doing worse than last season? significantly higher than all other options based on things like CL pull, wages , etc etc

all this could change if we signed messi tomorrow or someone of a calibre that will propel us to the level of city and united (cause thats the way we can better last season)

one could actually argue that the variable that allowed for us to compete so solidly in the top 4 is actually here...AVB , but in a negative correlation.

Disagree that Harry means consistency but AVB may not though.

not surprised you disagree, i dont either. i dont think i ever said that Harry meant consistency...i said that he provided the best cure for our consistency issues. he was the best at dealing with that problem. AVB on the other hand wasnt at chelsea

AVB was inconsistent attempting to bed new ideas in at Chelsea with unsuited players.

not really the best thing / trait for a manager though now is it? either way, he got inconsistent and surprising results for whatever reason. someone else came in and got better results more consistently.

Harry usually has a consistent run between September-January and has for the last 2 years saw us fall away. There is no really way to tell either way.

Yep harry has an inconsistent period for the last two years, the first year though that wasnt the case , the year we first made 4th. last season one could say that it was clearly the lure of england that caused our collapse. but for whatever reason the inconsistency did happen, something that i doubt i have denied. what i have said is that Harry provided the best plaster for our consistency woes. he had the most consistent results. AVB on the other hand didnt get consistency , infact he actually made a normally consistent team ...inconsistent. again for whatever reason or excuses, he takes a large portion of the descriptives as to why that happened

Simply put, if we get the right players to play the way AVB wants, and he gets them on side and playing for him, we will be consistent. I don't think he's an 'inconsistent manager'.

you see , now THIS is a bold rubber stamped statement. saying that if we buy the right players and get them playing for him that we will DEFINATELY be consistent. so i take it that the players we do buy will be his own players? or will it be a case that al of a sudden the players we do get werent the right players for him if we are inconsistent? who would be to blame then?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

i am saying this, the chances of us improving on last season are slight..that's how high redknapp set the bar.

Are the chances any different in a world where right now Harry is still in charge instead of AVB?

 

[africanspurs]

I disagree with AS re the point of Spurs consistancy, far from it actually.

- Look at Spurs results over the last 7 years -> 14, 9, 5, 5, 11, 8, 4, 5, 5
- If you look at the same time and various other stats, certain things stick out
- Generally a brick away record
- Generally brick against Sky 4 (improving, but our league results against Manure, Scum really hurt)
- Decent home record
- Not enough doubles against bottom 4-6 teams
- Poor conversion rate from set pieces

In my view Tottenham pre 7 years ago was consistantly brick/mediocre with the odd good game (all mid table teams get suprise results), over the last 7 years we have gradually (consistantly?) improved league placings, home form, GD, points total, etc.

What imo the new manager has to do is

- Continue to make WHL a very difficult place for any team to come to.
- Work on away results (tactics or simply making things like set pieces count or killing off games early)
- Make sure and get maximum points from bottom half teams (SAF's big trick, consistantly murder lower teams)
- Improve against rivals (tactics here imo)

Like I said in an earlier post, AVB getting 3rd/4th vs. 5th-7th depends on Ade/Modric staying or going. If we kept both, plus a couple of additions, really don't see a huge transition period.

all you've shown here is that we are consistently inconsistent. which is basically the image i was trying to put out there. over the last how many years you want to go back tottenham have either been under achievers or inconsistent in the league. the league finishes doesnt show how inconsistent we were during the league.
and our improvement was under Harry, again someone that patched up our inconsistent behaviour.
As a team we have been getting better and better, but we are still consistency away from improving on what we did last year

oh and the last place finish under harry was 4th ...not 5th. cant tar the man with false figure mate LOL

if AVB can accomplish all that stuff there? then we are not only improving, we are not only fixing consistency issues, we are actually title contenders straight off the bat, and to be that kind of team in the premiership would immediately translate to potential CL winners. if he can do all those things you ask for then we have Alex ferguson / wenger / jose M on our hands. which is great, but i just dont buy it.

 

[africanspurs]

Are the chances any different in a world where right now Harry is still in charge instead of AVB?

for redknapp? no

for AVB ? worse chance than harry.

Harry represented continuity, a decent brand of football (though i have my reservations), loyalty and man management from the players, and a history of getting big results when needed. we have done it under harry when it looked like we wouldnt, we have done it under harry when it looked like we should, we got better under Harry, harry has set records with us....RECORDS man!!

i dont think we can improve on last season , even under harry......but i think there is less of a chance of us getting better overall results under AVB as well

 

[BrainOfLevy]

no definately not. it is certainly not an equal possibility at all. its much more favoured to going down than up. just two basic variables , one being AVB's past chelsea expeience and the other being our historical ability to not maintain consistency. best under redknapp though



agreed



you havent really said anything here thats rubber stamped...i.e all you have said is that we could be 3rd or we could be 6th, it will be tight. its a good TV sound bite to sit on the fence and put forward hypotheticals that can sympathise with your stance but lets look at liklehoods.

Chances of liverpool being as they were last season? high or low? chances of them being better? high or low
same for chelsea.

arsenal will always be in the mix, with or without RVP. thats how much wengers system is good.

we 'could' make signings...agreed, but as of right now we dont have Ade...and i am curious who we can buy that can be on his level , when he doesnt play the lone striker thing falls to pieces.

i am saying this, the chances of us improving on last season are slight..that's how high redknapp set the bar.

chances of us staying the same? better

chances of us doing worse than last season? significantly higher than all other options based on things like CL pull, wages , etc etc

all this could change if we signed messi tomorrow or someone of a calibre that will propel us to the level of city and united (cause thats the way we can better last season)

one could actually argue that the variable that allowed for us to compete so solidly in the top 4 is actually here...AVB , but in a negative correlation.



not surprised you disagree, i dont either. i dont think i ever said that Harry meant consistency...i said that he provided the best cure for our consistency issues. he was the best at dealing with that problem. AVB on the other hand wasnt at chelsea



not really the best thing / trait for a manager though now is it? either way, he got inconsistent and surprising results for whatever reason. someone else came in and got better results more consistently.



Yep harry has an inconsistent period for the last two years, the first year though that wasnt the case , the year we first made 4th. last season one could say that it was clearly the lure of england that caused our collapse. but for whatever reason the inconsistency did happen, something that i doubt i have denied. what i have said is that Harry provided the best plaster for our consistency woes. he had the most consistent results. AVB on the other hand didnt get consistency , infact he actually made a normally consistent team ...inconsistent. again for whatever reason or excuses, he takes a large portion of the descriptives as to why that happened



you see , now THIS is a bold rubber stamped statement. saying that if we buy the right players and get them playing for him that we will DEFINATELY be consistent. so i take it that the players we do buy will be his own players? or will it be a case that al of a sudden the players we do get werent the right players for him if we are inconsistent? who would be to blame then?

I think it's fairly equal. Chelsea will likely be much better but at the same time, unless they make a raft of amazing signings, I don't really see how Hazard, Marin and Maicon puts them on a far higher level than us, considering we have room in our squad to make significant improvements naturally. They should finish above us, but I don't think they will go too far ahead really.

I 'sit on the fence' because it's never good to make the rubber stamped statements, nothing is worth predicting like that because anything could happen. I did say though my ideal was Harry out and AVB in only a couple of days after the Fulham game, and I've gotten it. But really in life nothing is whether one thing or the other, a lot of truth is in the middle.

Likelihood of Chelsea being better - high. Likelihood of Arsenal being better - I'd say they will be about the same. Likelihood of Man United being better...maybe. They will always be strong but I can see us getting nearer to them. Emirates Marketing Project should finish ahead of us. Liverpool being better - maybe, but they will be in transition and they shouldn't finish above us. Saudi Sportswashing Machine - will be good again most likely but we simply should have more depth and be better than them.

So all in all I think it will be a bit like this season. I don't think AVB is going to lead to any more of a downward direction of performances than we would have been under Harry anyway. We were only clear in third because Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool were total brick. If Chelsea improve, we'll probably be 4th and fighting with Arsenal. No difference whether that's Harry or AVB at the helm. But I would say that our squad is ripe for evolution under AVB, it doesn't have to be in transition, and it seems like we have the money to get exactly the players we need. Other clubs, like Chelsea and Liverpool, will be in transition because they have expensive/influential players that simply have to play. That could cause a bit of inconsistency. Arsenall will lose one if not two key players but they will always be around there. But we are ripe to push on.

Don't really want to argue AVB's Chelsea time as it's been done to death. But the clear line seems to be he was brought to do a job with Roman's backing, but Roman got nervous and decided to pull the plug on it. AVB then thought he had authority that he didn't have. Here, he doesn't face that problem. I'm entirely confident he can come here, explain to the players how he wants them to play, and get the right players in. I'm also completely confident he can get on with them and manage them well.

But yes, if he gets the players he wants, but we still fail, then the blame falls with him. We seem to be doing everything to make the circumstances completely right for him, so if he still fails, then it's his fault. No doubt.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Put it this way, if we get a quality keeper in, sign Vertonghen, keep Modric/sign Moutinho, and get at least 2 quality players to join Bale in the front 3, I don't think there's any team in the league that is significantly better than ours right now. And that's actually a pretty realistic aim to do what I've just said.

Of course everyone else will make signings, but we have space to sign players that will improve us, other teams can only improve so much before they hit a plateau because they can't sign every player in the world, and that gives us the opportunity to catch up. It will also allow other teams below us to eventually catch up with us too, but that team above, plus the additions of squad players that are cheaper and possess the right attributes to keep playing the system when key players are out, I don't think there will be too many better than us to be honest.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

for redknapp? no

for AVB ? worse chance than harry.

Harry represented continuity, a decent brand of football (though i have my reservations), loyalty and man management from the players, and a history of getting big results when needed. we have done it under harry when it looked like we wouldnt, we have done it under harry when it looked like we should, we got better under Harry, harry has set records with us....RECORDS man!!

i dont think we can improve on last season , even under harry......but i think there is less of a chance of us getting better overall results under AVB as well

I agree we wouldnt have improved under Harry (as in honesty I dont believe we really have for two seasons)

I disagree though when you say with confidence under AVB we cant. That is not to say (with confidence) that we will though.

We know what we were going to get with Redknapp, and can judge based upon that experience. We dont with AVB, so simply we cant judge, IMO.

It could be that he over sees a Chelsea like disaster, it could be that he brings a Porto like success.

What I do know is that he will do things differently to Harry - what is there to say that will be negative instead of positive?

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Even if we lose VDV and Modric, it will mean a massive war chest for AVB. So I think people need to stop being coy about their season expectations because the comings and goings of players are now down to the Manager. This means those expectations can be set right now.

My expectations are 5th. Anything above that I'd be delighted with. If we finish 6th or 7th I'll be satisfied. If we finish 8th or below I'll be disappointed but as long as we aren't seriously in relegation fears won't be calling for the Manager's head.

 

[Spursalot]

Calm down all. The sig has arrived. We're nailed on 1st.

 

[ess]

Even if we lose VDV and Modric, it will mean a massive war chest for AVB. So I think people need to stop being coy about their season expectations because the comings and goings of players are now down to the Manager. This means those expectations can be set right now.

My expectations are 5th. Anything above that I'd be delighted with. If we finish 6th or 7th I'll be satisfied. If we finish 8th or below I'll be disappointed but as long as we aren't seriously in relegation fears won't be calling for the Manager's head.

I admit that it annoys me that I suddenly agree with you on everything now as Harry is gone.

Chelsea's squad looks terribly good at the moment, and I strongly doubt Arsenal will do any worse than last season despite losing RvP. They were really, really poor before Christmas, that won't happen again. I'm also excited to see whether we'll have a go in the Europa League, AVB did win it with Porto and I think he could do it with us.

 

[ArnieArdiles]

Even if we lose VDV and Modric, it will mean a massive war chest for AVB. So I think people need to stop being coy about their season expectations because the comings and goings of players are now down to the Manager. This means those expectations can be set right now.

My expectations are 5th. Anything above that I'd be delighted with. If we finish 6th or 7th I'll be satisfied. If we finish 8th or below I'll be disappointed but as long as we aren't seriously in relegation fears won't be calling for the Manager's head.

Can't say where we'll finish till we get our striker situation sorted.


Anyway , I think we should talk about point totals rather than league positions. The two Manchester clubs and any other club who believe they can win the title, going by last seasons points tally and it was exceptional it has to be said , will be targeting 90 points .


Approx 70 points will get you there or thereabouts for a CL qualification


40 points to avoid relegation.


We've become a challenger for CL qualification so for me , 70 plus points seems a good target at the start of our season.

 

[africanspurs]

I agree we wouldnt have improved under Harry (as in honesty I dont believe we really have for two seasons)

I disagree though when you say with confidence under AVB we cant. That is not to say (with confidence) that we will though.

We know what we were going to get with Redknapp, and can judge based upon that experience. We dont with AVB, so simply we cant judge, IMO.

It could be that he over sees a Chelsea like disaster, it could be that he brings a Porto like success.

What I do know is that he will do things differently to Harry - what is there to say that will be negative instead of positive?

nothing, i just dont think we will be better this coming season than last season. we can come 6th and show some kind of improvement , or 'direction'...no doubt

just when people say we are likely to be as good if not better than last season ? i dont agree with that

another thing with this redknapp thing, hypotheticaly speaking, how can we know where we would have ended up had we backed him the same way that we appear to be backing AVB? we know what we were going to get with harry , and yet with good players he performed as well as could be expected,.....if not better.

where would we be if we gave harry the kind of financial backing AVB is presumably going to get?

 

[africanspurs]

Put it this way, if we get a quality keeper in, sign Vertonghen, keep Modric/sign Moutinho, and get at least 2 quality players to join Bale in the front 3, I don't think there's any team in the league that is significantly better than ours right now. And that's actually a pretty realistic aim to do what I've just said.

Of course everyone else will make signings, but we have space to sign players that will improve us, other teams can only improve so much before they hit a plateau because they can't sign every player in the world, and that gives us the opportunity to catch up. It will also allow other teams below us to eventually catch up with us too, but that team above, plus the additions of squad players that are cheaper and possess the right attributes to keep playing the system when key players are out, I don't think there will be too many better than us to be honest.

if harry had those kind of ingredients how do you think he would fare?

 

[Boonie]

Put it this way, if we get a quality keeper in, sign Vertonghen, keep Modric/sign Moutinho, and get at least 2 quality players to join Bale in the front 3, I don't think there's any team in the league that is significantly better than ours right now. And that's actually a pretty realistic aim to do what I've just said.

Of course everyone else will make signings, but we have space to sign players that will improve us, other teams can only improve so much before they hit a plateau because they can't sign every player in the world, and that gives us the opportunity to catch up. It will also allow other teams below us to eventually catch up with us too, but that team above, plus the additions of squad players that are cheaper and possess the right attributes to keep playing the system when key players are out, I don't think there will be too many better than us to be honest.

So 5 world class signings will do it for us then, sheesh is that all? Oh no we have to keep Modric too.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

if harry had those kind of ingredients how do you think he would fare?

Probably still with one of the best teams in the league, if we gave him similar backing.

But maybe those players would be slightly older, maybe the targets he would have wanted wouldn't have chimed with Levy/Sherwood's thinking, so maybe there would have been more indecisivness causing us to miss out on targets. Maybe the squad wouldn't have the backups needed in key positions because young players don't want to back up knowing they'll never get a game.

But with AVB, I think his policy chimes with that of Levy and Sherwood. He will want young players. Therefore it will be more sustainable, as it isn't likely we can keep having these massive summers of spending. I think he knows the exact type of player he wants and needs to fit his tactical system, so that he is more willing to take risks on un-proven guys where as Harry would rather stick with what he had/buy a stop gap because he wasn't sure.

And I think because AVB has a particular way of playing, he will know the type of player he needs to play it, and will therefore ensure we are appropriately backed up in key positions. If Lennon or Bale got injured last season we looked like a completely different side, and had to alter our game plan significantly. I'd prefer to know even if we had injuries that we were at least trying to play the right way.

 

[ArnieArdiles]

I fully agree with you and this is the key point.

If the board can longer tolerate the behaviour of a manager who seeks at every turn to undermine them in the media, then regardless of how well he is doing the job he is paid to do, it is inevitable that the manager has to go. Harry only has himself to blame. Sad but undeniably true.

I agree . The importance of a good working relationship between Boss and employees, between chairman and manager cannot be overstated .