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Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

Boonie said:
So 5 world class signings will do it for us then, sheesh is that all? Oh no we have to keep Modric too.
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It 's not unrealistic though is it?

With the reported money we've got to back AVB with this summer, there are plenty of quality keepers we could go for.

Vertonghen is on the hook.

We either keep Modric or we sell him and replace him with Moutinho (who said he would work with AVB again tomorrow if he could) and have money left over.

And we then need 2 quality players to play in the front 3 with Bale. Again, it shouldn't be too hard to find them if AVB is being backed, because a 4-3-3 system has been popular in many places over the last few years and is producing players that would suit it.

It isn't ridiculous at all.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
It 's not unrealistic though is it?

With the reported money we've got to back AVB with this summer, there are plenty of quality keepers we could go for.

Vertonghen is on the hook.

We either keep Modric or we sell him and replace him with Moutinho (who said he would work with AVB again tomorrow if he could) and have money left over.

And we then need 2 quality players to play in the front 3 with Bale. Again, it shouldn't be too hard to find them if AVB is being backed, because a 4-3-3 system has been popular in many places over the last few years and is producing players that would suit it.

It isn't ridiculous at all.
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Mhm, to be honest i think it's an alright idea until you come to the Striker.

A 'World' class striker is going to be far out of our transfer and wage budgets.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I will support AVB 100% but I hate to break it you, AVB is hardly one to accept blame if you've ever seen any of his post match interviews after a loss, then you will see what I mean.

Some people need to make up their minds. Do they want a manager who tells it like it is and makes us successful, or one that tells us what a great club we are and finishes in mid table? Makes me think of House. He's a complete prick, but you'd rather be insulted by him and he saves your life rather than get a doctor who is nice to you, but you die!

Anyway, enough about Redknapp. We have a new man at the helm and I'm sure every Spurs fan wants him to succeed and get us back in the Champions League!
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I actually share your reservations about AVB under pressure and that's why I wrote in my post:

I want to see a Spurs manager conduct himself in a manner that befits our club's pride in what we try to achieve and not have one that gives us the impression we should be honored to have him jabbering on about how fantastic he is when things are going well and how he's not to blame for anything when it does not. Whether AVB is the man to do this I don't know but I respect the decision of Levy & the Spurs board.
 
Spursalot said:
Mhm, to be honest i think it's an alright idea until you come to the Striker.

A 'World' class striker is going to be far out of our transfer and wage budgets.
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----------------KEEPER--------------------

Walker------Kaboul--Vertonghen---Assou-Ekotto

----------------Sandro-----------------------

----------Sigurdsson-------Modric--------------

WING-FORWARD---------------------------Bale

----------------STRIKER-----------------------

If we're clever, we could maybe get a good keeper for around 8-10M.

A good wing-forward, again about 8-10.

Striker...I think we may be able to get a suitable one for 15-20M.

That's 30-40M spent to bring our team up to a level that would give any team in the country serious concern. Plus another £18M on the Sig and Vert...so 50-60M.

We'd then need someone that could score goals from midfield when Sig is out (maybe Jenas?), someone to back up Bale (Townsend?), someone to back up the new wing forward, and someone to back up the striker.

Let's say we had £20M always earmarked for this summer, we need to make it up to 60M plus whatever we need for back ups to the first team to flesh out the squad by selling Krancjar, Dos Santos, Corluka, Gomes, Bassong, Dawson (if he doesn't suit the high-line?), Jenas, Bentley, and Van Der Vaart. There's also Pienaar, Huddlestone, Lennon, Livermore, Parker and Defoe. Some of those may go, some of them may be used in the squad. I could see massive change but I think we could raise the money to get who we need.
 
Won't let me edit the post, but I also want to add that I understand Townsend for example won't be as good as Bale, but the idea of having a coach with a preferred way of playing means we need similar player types able to come in and do the job we need from them to make it work.

The back ups won't be as good as the first team picks, but that means they will also be cheaper to sign.
 
If you do rotation right and have a system the team can always carry a couple of average players as long as they put in the effort.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Won't let me edit the post, but I also want to add that I understand Townsend for example won't be as good as Bale, but the idea of having a coach with a preferred way of playing means we need similar player types able to come in and do the job we need from them to make it work.

The back ups won't be as good as the first team picks, but that means they will also be cheaper to sign.
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'If we're clever' works, but every player is a risk..

Yeah, your 'plan' is a sound one, though we'll have to wait and see about the prices/availability of the players in the positions.


If we do get rid of that amount of 'deadwood' we will be saving quite a bit on wages, though i wouldn't be against some of them staying around as backup players..
 
what top class striker can we get for 15 million? or even a good wing forward 8 to 10 million?

dont see them being so cheap
 
africanspurs said:
what top class striker can we get for 15 million? or even a good wing forward 8 to 10 million?

dont see them being so cheap
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Podolski and Giroud both went for less than £15m. Hernandez went for £6m, Saudi Sportswashing Machine got Demba Ba for free and Patinkle Cissé for £10m. I think salary is more of an issue rather than transfer fee for us.
 
ess said:
Podolski and Giroud both went for less than £15m. Hernandez went for £6m, Saudi Sportswashing Machine got Demba Ba for free and Patinkle Cissé for £10m. I think salary is more of an issue rather than transfer fee for us.
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all good points , aside from podolski......i think he is not as good in club level..however i think he fits the wenger mould nicely and would do wonders there

giroud i know nothing of. so don know how good he is

hernandez wouldnt be the guy you look to to play lone striker would he? but top class striker he is none the less...at 10 million

agree with ba but not cisse (for lone striker purposes)

i think in general i see what you're saying about the strikers
 
africanspurs said:
what top class striker can we get for 15 million? or even a good wing forward 8 to 10 million?

dont see them being so cheap
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Doumbia has been mentioned. The talk about Damiao has been in the 15-20m range.

Could that Oscar kid play in a wing forwardy kinda position?

The worry with AVB is that he might go for too many young/unproven players at the same time meaning that it will take longer for the team to gel and if we get a poor start we all know what will happen.
 
africanspurs said:
what top class striker can we get for 15 million? or even a good wing forward 8 to 10 million?

dont see them being so cheap
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We just have to identify the ones with the right attributes to play the way we want. It's not easy and I don't know the names to be honest but I'm absolutely sure they are out there. Jelavic and Cisse are effective strikers and neither cost a bomb, relatively speaking.

With AVB and his team's scouting knowledge I'm sure they will be able to pick some players from somewhere. We won't neccesarily be looking for someone who is proven world class in one of the top leagues, but someone that has the right attributes to play the way he want. I get the feeling that under Harry, because Pav, Defoe etc were objetively 'good' strikers at a certain level, there was no plan of upgrading them unless a world class striker like Llorente became available. So Harry carried on, because he already had decent options. But if we had a defined way of playing, rather than adapting to each player, one of the benefits should be that we can get more value out of our signings because we are signing them for their attributes, not the reputation.

In any case there's about 15 players listed there that either could be sold or could become squad players, and out of those we'd need to make up about 50-60M to get the squad to the kind of level I'm talking about. That's £3.5M a player on average. It can be done.
 
And I know it sounds like a lot of transition, and people think 'gel time' would be needed, but I really think it's a lot about getting the right players to play the way you want. That way, you aren't asking them to do anything they can't already do. At the start of the Arnesen years, we had a massive amount of players in and out and they settled quite well, before Santini left. And then the next season yet more signings, and Jol did well. The players suited him.

I think transition and gel time becomes a problem when a manager inherits a squad that isn't suited to the way they want to play. They only 'gel' when the players that can't do it are replaced by ones that can. We are pretty much suited to have AVB wants to play I'd say.
 
braineclipse said:
Doumbia has been mentioned. The talk about Damiao has been in the 15-20m range.

Could that Oscar kid play in a wing forwardy kinda position?

The worry with AVB is that he might go for too many young/unproven players at the same time meaning that it will take longer for the team to gel and if we get a poor start we all know what will happen.
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how do we know any of these guys are top class strikers. or even decent premier league strikers?
 
africanspurs said:
how do we know any of these guys are top class strikers. or even decent premier league strikers?
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Come on maaaan! With that attitude we may as well not even bother, unless someone 'proven' comes along and we can make an upgrade.

I'd say this is exactly why Levy wanted someone like AVB rather than someone like Harry. It's probably why we never really showed any improvement in the strikeforce for years unless a good deal presented itself to us.

Nothing wrong with Harry's management, it has its positives, but he judges on feeling. He judges on characters. Why would we sign Cisse when we have Defoe etc. Not saying one is better than the other, but with that attitude, the only strikers that are proven upgrades on someone like Defoe or the ones that do cost £15M+ and have epic goal-scoring records.

We need someone who has a defined way of playing, knows exactly what he is looking for in a particular role, and then finds a player to suit it. Swansea got Vorm, not because he was objectively a good keeper at a great deal. A lot of clubs didn't want him because he is too small. But Swansea thought, we need a keeper good with the ball at his feet he can help in retaining possession.

That's exactly what we need all over the park. If we sign players this way, based on a way we know we are going to play, and then finding the attributes to fit in with it, we will uncover value.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
And I know it sounds like a lot of transition, and people think 'gel time' would be needed, but I really think it's a lot about getting the right players to play the way you want. That way, you aren't asking them to do anything they can't already do. At the start of the Arnesen years, we had a massive amount of players in and out and they settled quite well, before Santini left. And then the next season yet more signings, and Jol did well. The players suited him.

I think transition and gel time becomes a problem when a manager inherits a squad that isn't suited to the way they want to play. They only 'gel' when the players that can't do it are replaced by ones that can. We are pretty much suited to have AVB wants to play I'd say.
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It's a combination of a lot of things really. Some people talk as if Vertonghen will just slot right into our team and take the Premiership by storm, but most centre halves need a season to settle into the PL (yes, I know there are exceptions). Same with midfielders and attacking midfielders, if we do replace Modric with Moutinho for example he will probably need some time, most certainly someone like Oscar will need time. Combine that with a new style of play for the excising players and it sounds very optimistic to me to expect us to start performing straight away or even in the first couple of moths. would have course like to be proven wrong.

I don't buy your statement about get time only being a problem when a manager inherits a squad that isn't suited to his style of play. Gel time and transition time is a problem even for individual players, Vidic and Evra looked inept at first in the PL, but became truly top class players. We can't just expect to bring in 4-5 players that are new to the league and expect all of them to perform from game one.

africanspurs said:
how do we know any of these guys are top class strikers. or even decent premier league strikers?
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We can't. Just listing some of the (many) options out there, then it will be up to AVB and his staff to figure out who we should go for and who we should avoid. That's one of the things he's supposed to be good at. We won't be able to buy many players that are proven top class in the PL anyway, so that's the route we'll have to go.
 
braineclipse said:
It's a combination of a lot of things really. Some people talk as if Vertonghen will just slot right into our team and take the Premiership by storm, but most centre halves need a season to settle into the PL (yes, I know there are exceptions). Same with midfielders and attacking midfielders, if we do replace Modric with Moutinho for example he will probably need some time, most certainly someone like Oscar will need time. Combine that with a new style of play for the excising players and it sounds very optimistic to me to expect us to start performing straight away or even in the first couple of moths. would have course like to be proven wrong.

I don't buy your statement about get time only being a problem when a manager inherits a squad that isn't suited to his style of play. Gel time and transition time is a problem even for individual players, Vidic and Evra looked inept at first in the PL, but became truly top class players. We can't just expect to bring in 4-5 players that are new to the league and expect all of them to perform from game one.



We can't. Just listing some of the (many) options out there, then it will be up to AVB and his staff to figure out who we should go for and who we should avoid. That's one of the things he's supposed to be good at. We won't be able to buy many players that are proven top class in the PL anyway, so that's the route we'll have to go.
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Fair enough. Actually Drogba's first season at Chelsea is probably a good example to back your point up too. Suited to the system but needed time. I was wrong there.
 
okay okay okay, i surrender LOL

fair enough, we gamble on he next big thing and we might be as dangerous as anyone out there.

but it is a gamble, not a we gamble and then that makes us as dangerous as anyone out there type thing.
 
Why is it a gamble? Why cant you just identify someone to suit your needs and rely upon your scouting being good?

The strikers listed werent with regards to our specific need, rather set as examples of cheap (or reasonable) strikers that went into their respective clubs and did the job (in some cases spectacularly).

Who says good strikers have to cost the earth?
 
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