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Alex Pritchard

braineclipse said:
How is the "Berahino is a striker who can play in attacking midfield whereas Clinton and Son are attacking midfielders who can play up front" argument different from the Bale is a left winger (or left back), Kane is a #10, Modric isn't a deep playmaker arguments that have been made about so many young players over the years only to be proven wrong at a later stage?

What is it about Son and Clinton that makes them "not primarily a CF" apart from the fact that it's not where they've been playing primarily for the majority of their so far short careers?

Chadli said himself that he can play up front. In an alternative universe either Chadli, Son or Clinton was signed by a PL team like WBA a couple of years back and played as a striker until now and people would be claiming that "he's not primarily an attacking midfielder, he's primarily a striker".

Soldado was also primarily a CF. Did he give us better cover/competition for Kane than we currently have? I would argue no, and that's why we sold him. Berahino is "PL proven", but for a much smaller team playing a very different style of play to ourselves (yes, I'm talking about WBA pre-Pulis, I don't need it explained to me).

I'm not usually one to make the "computer game argument". But sometimes I feel that there's an undue focus on what a player's position is ahead of other factors that often can be more important in deciding if a player will succeed or not. As if a player moving from one position to another automatically dropped his attributes by X because "it's not his natural position".
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This is just repeating the arguments had in the summer - he displays the attributes required to play CF for us in place of Kane, imo and in the opinion of several others - he isn't comparable in style to Soldado nor is he comparable to Bent/Defoe. I don't get the computer game reference as we're looking past his position and looking at how he plays football. It seems you can't get past his height or who he plays for and how they're setup...

You can't only buy players from teams which are setup the same as you as you're greatly reducing the players available to you - take the Lovern to Southampton story as an example, wasn't very good in France but they knew he'd do well in their system because of the attributes he displayed in spite of that, same thing here (only Berahino has played well in a number of different roles/setups)
 
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billyiddo said:
This is just repeating the arguments had in the summer - he displays the attributes required to play CF for us in place of Kane, imo and in the opinion of several others - he isn't comparable in style to Soldado nor is he comparable to Bent/Defoe. I don't get thecomputer game reference as we're looking past his position and looking at how he plays football. It seems you can't get past his height or who he plays for.

You can't only buy players from teams which are setup the same as you as you're greatly reducing the players available to you - take the Lovern to Southampton story as an example, wasn't very good in France but they knew he'd do well in their system because of the attributes he displayed in spite of that, same thing here (only Berahino has played well in a number of different roles/setups)
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But the arguments had this summer (and this January) were repetitive and circular. Very dismissive to just hand wave away the other side of that argument as "this has been explained to you" when arguments and counter arguments have been presented on both sides and no real consensus has been reached.

The computer game reference was in regards to describing Berahino as primarily a striker and Son/Chadli/Clinton as primarily not strikers. We have Chadli saying publicly that he can play as a striker and posters on this board saying that we have "no cover for Kane". Perhaps not a fair criticism of yourself though, but I thought your classifications of Berahino as primarily a CF whereas young Son and Clinton are not seems massively premature.

Do you think Berahino is comparable in style to Kane then?

I'm not saying we can only buy players from teams that are set up the same as us. I enjoy a strengths/weaknesses debate as much as most. Saying "Son is primarily an attacking midfielder" is not it.

I've been very positive in the past about players signed (or being linked) from smaller clubs. I do have a strong preference for having at least one player with a real physical presence in the front 4 - usually the striker. And I do have a strong preference for "complete strikers" for the lone striker role we currently play. I do also have at least some doubts whenever an attacking player has a single good season (or less) playing for a counter attacking PL side to then be linked to teams that play most of their games with the majority of possession. I don't think any of these are irrational thoughts.
 
billyiddo said:
No they aren't, Berahino is a CF primarily which the others are not this gives us better cover/competition for Kane than we currently have.

As has been explained to you countless times in various threads over the summer by posters that have seen a lot more of him than you have.
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He's not. He's just a shiny new toy for people that seem to enjoy human resources more than the business on the green stuff. He's the new Moutinho/Leandro/Konoplanka/Huntelaar/Llorente/Diarra/van Bommel /Downing, who will just hang in the consciousness for a while because he's expensive and we tried to sign him once when we weren't as good as we are now.

Njie played CF (in a 4-4-2) very well in France. Son has played there successfully in Germany. And Chadli in Holland. There's no mystique around them anymore, but they are all excellent players who are proven in our system and at the business end of the table.
 
Son was an Am in Germany and Chadli played off the left in a 433 in Holland.

You have only seen Berahino play for the U21s by your own admission and have generally talked complete and utter nonsene any time you have attempted to describe him as a player over the last 6 months or so - head down/Bent/Defoe being much shorter than the guy Barca, it goes on and on. So much so I have to question whether you have seen him play even that much.

N'jie is an interesting comparison and kind of goes along with what I said to @braineclipse in a previous post with regards to looking past a player's position and looking at their attributes - N'jie doesn't display the attributes required to lead the line in the way Kane does, or how Berahino would, which is why we played a false/rotating #9 against Monaco. With Berahino we would essentialy play the same, we'd lose a bit of height but in terms of ball in to feet/strength to hold up the ball/eye for a pass/movement off the ball/dribbling/playing back to goal -it's all there (though not as good as Kane, but then who is?)
 
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I think much of the talk over the summer about Berahino playing in a front pair with Kane, was prior to the Son deal. I'll be one of those posters who have seen more of the guy at U21 level than for West Brom, but what I can say is that his finishing ability, pace and ability to identify and exploit the space Kane was creating were reasons why I saw him as an ideal signing. In my opinion that was the exact type of player we needed on one of our flanks, a job that Son, Alli and Chadli have done and one that N'jie could also do.

Back on topic; Pritchard is competing for Lamela's role. He's got quick feet, has a decent turn of pace and can pick a decent pass. Like Lamela he seems to gravitate to those positions between the defensive lines and looks to affect the game from there. The one area though that I think he could outshine Lamela in, is the goals department. Lamela for me has a hesitence in front of goal that has been present since he joined. It's got better, but he hasn't turned into a midfielder that is going to grab 10+ league goals a season, he's still primarily a creator. Pritchard could be the right blend of playmaker and goalscorer that we need, but he's going to have to show it.
 
Gutter Boy said:
That's exactly what you do.

Berahino isn't someone who can break down a stubborn defence. He can't play in the small pockets or with his back to goal.

He's actually a sub you bring on when you are protecting a narrow lead and want to stretch the game at the other end of the pitch. In that situation I'd bring him on for a Son or an Eriksen.
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Interested to hear what you base this viewpoint on?
 
braineclipse said:
But the arguments had this summer (and this January) were repetitive and circular. Very dismissive to just hand wave away the other side of that argument as "this has been explained to you" when arguments and counter arguments have been presented on both sides and no real consensus has been reached.

The computer game reference was in regards to describing Berahino as primarily a striker and Son/Chadli/Clinton as primarily not strikers. We have Chadli saying publicly that he can play as a striker and posters on this board saying that we have "no cover for Kane". Perhaps not a fair criticism of yourself though, but I thought your classifications of Berahino as primarily a CF whereas young Son and Clinton are not seems massively premature.

Do you think Berahino is comparable in style to Kane then?

I'm not saying we can only buy players from teams that are set up the same as us. I enjoy a strengths/weaknesses debate as much as most. Saying "Son is primarily an attacking midfielder" is not it.

I've been very positive in the past about players signed (or being linked) from smaller clubs. I do have a strong preference for having at least one player with a real physical presence in the front 4 - usually the striker. And I do have a strong preference for "complete strikers" for the lone striker role we currently play. I do also have at least some doubts whenever an attacking player has a single good season (or less) playing for a counter attacking PL side to then be linked to teams that play most of their games with the majority of possession. I don't think any of these are irrational thoughts.
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From what I have seen of Chadli he isn't tough enough to play as our striker. While he clearly has the physical build and the goalscoring ability to do so. He seems to look to actively avoid the rough stuff and plays more like a mouse than a man on the pitch.
 
Gutter Boy said:
He's not. He's just a shiny new toy for people that seem to enjoy human resources more than the business on the green stuff. He's the new Moutinho/Leandro/Konoplanka/Huntelaar/Llorente/Diarra/van Bommel /Downing, who will just hang in the consciousness for a while because he's expensive and we tried to sign him once when we weren't as good as we are now.

Njie played CF (in a 4-4-2) very well in France. Son has played there successfully in Germany. And Chadli in Holland. There's no mystique around them anymore, but they are all excellent players who are proven in our system and at the business end of the table.
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I think there is also the reverse in operation here as well.... Because Berahino is an English player, playing (or I guess that should be NOT playing) in the PL for an unfashionable team, with an anti-football manager, it leads some (I won't name names) to assume the type of player that he is and state that he couldn't play in the Kane role for us, while instead advocating signing a player that they probably haven't even seen to deputise Kane, despite the fact that that player is is several KGs lighter than Berahino and only a mere 1" taller than him.

I think Berahino's problem on this message board is actually that he is not a shiny new toy.
 
Finney Is Back said:
From what I have seen of Chadli he isn't tough enough to play as our striker. While he clearly has the physical build and the goalscoring ability to do so. He seems to look to actively avoid the rough stuff and plays more like a mouse than a man on the pitch.
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A fair enough opinion. But not the same as us having "no cover for Kane".
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think there is also the reverse in operation here as well.... Because Berahino is an English player, playing (or I guess that should be NOT playing) in the PL for an unfashionable team, with an anti-football manager, it leads some (I won't name names) to assume the type of player that he is and state that he couldn't play in the Kane role for us, while instead advocating signing a player that they probably haven't even seen to deputise Kane, despite the fact that that player is is several KGs lighter than Berahino and only a mere 1" taller than him.

I think Berahino's problem on this message board is actually that he is not a shiny new toy.
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Couldn't agree more with you. However I would just say that I have complete faith that if we don't go for Berahino, it will be for good enough reasons and will not castigate Levy, Poch, Mitchell or anyone else at the club for not getting Berahino done. I actually think that we are a more compelling proposition for any prospective player in a long, long time. Perhaps we might be going for better players than Saido.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
Couldn't agree more with you. However I would just say that I have complete faith that if we don't go for Berahino, it will be for good enough reasons and will not castigate Levy, Poch, Mitchell or anyone else at the club for not getting Berahino done. I actually think that we are a more compelling proposition for any prospective player in a long, long time. Perhaps we might be going for better players than Saido.
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Agreed. I think the price put on the player's head is simply too high.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
Couldn't agree more with you. However I would just say that I have complete faith that if we don't go for Berahino, it will be for good enough reasons and will not castigate Levy, Poch, Mitchell or anyone else at the club for not getting Berahino done. I actually think that we are a more compelling proposition for any prospective player in a long, long time. Perhaps we might be going for better players than Saido.
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Batshuayi perhaps?
 
Didn't realy see the West Brom game other than the last 20 mins of extra time and then the penalty shoot-out; did Pritchard play any part of the game earlier? If not, was he on the subs bench?
 
glorygloryeze said:
Didn't realy see the West Brom game other than the last 20 mins of extra time and then the penalty shoot-out; did Pritchard play any part of the game earlier? If not, was he on the subs bench?
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He was signed after the original game and was therefore not eligible for the replay.
 
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