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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Lilbaz said:
It's a widely shared view by many people in this country. Why do you think reform are leading the polls?
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Is it a widely shared view? Even amongst Reform voters? Why do we have to respond to massive generalisations with massive generalisations? I think most people are capable of more subtle and intelligent thought than some give them credit for. Reform are doing well in the polls because the tories committed suicide between 2020 to 2024 and Starmer's Labour are unpopular.

There's a lot of views in between "nothing to see here, its racist to suggest theres a cultural link to grooming gangs" and "farkin' hell we need to round up all the pakis and musalums send them to paedocamps"

There is clear evidence that serious and organised cases of CSE and human trafficking were not investigated properly and reported on based on a culture of fear relating to "political correctness". I think people can disect that without going down the racist route - obviously there is the element here that there's a particular problem with grooming gangs and an associated link to British pakistanis with the elephant in the room being that the "particular problem" is based on the police not wanting to touch those cases and so grooming featuring white British are not an issue as there isn't a litany of failed victims and poorly investigated cases.....so the desire to not be racist has fundamentally created the racism and racial tension and that's the real failure here.....
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Is it a widely shared view? Even amongst Reform voters? Why do we have to respond to massive generalisations with massive generalisations? I think most people are capable of more subtle and intelligent thought than some give them credit for. Reform are doing well in the polls because the tories committed suicide between 2020 to 2024 and Starmer's Labour are unpopular.

There's a lot of views in between "nothing to see here, its racist to suggest theres a cultural link to grooming gangs" and "farkin' hell we need to round up all the pakis and musalums send them to paedocamps"

There is clear evidence that serious and organised cases of CSE and human trafficking were not investigated properly and reported on based on a culture of fear relating to "political correctness". I think people can disect that without going down the racist route - obviously there is the element here that there's a particular problem with grooming gangs and an associated link to British pakistanis with the elephant in the room being that the "particular problem" is based on the police not wanting to touch those cases and so grooming featuring white British are not an issue as there isn't a litany of failed victims and poorly investigated cases.....so the desire to not be racist has fundamentally created the racism and racial tension and that's the real failure here.....
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You don't understand and you don't want to. I'm not going to try to explain. It's a waste of time.
 
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Lilbaz said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Ethnicity of grooming gangs 'shied away from', Casey report says

"We as a society owe these women a debt," the report also says.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Not sure where you got your stats from @LutonSpurs i know it says office for national statistics but seems to originate from twitter. Also the office for national statistics don't do their tables in pink as far as i can tell.
As that report says 2/3 of grooming gang ethnicity is not recorded. Why that is the case i'm not sure.
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That's ONS data for conviction for CSA.
 
The CEOP came up with some data on this years back which is worth seeking and reading. Their report was along the lines of CSE was an even split proportionate to the population YET it changes demographically, so in the case of the UK Asians commit 7% of the the crime, in the Midlands its 30% which again reflects the changes in demographics, but equally that works the other way in more predominately white, places like Wales and Cumbria the statistics for white crime shoot up above the national average.

As @LutonSpurs rightfully said yesterday, there is a massive CSE problem in this country but statistically its a shared problem.

The reason the racism card has been dealt on this forum recently, if anyone has been frequenting this page over the last year, is because three accounts were create suspiciously close together, to spread racist bile, one that didn't hide from it from the get go and two others that were more subtle but still made claims like "we should just get rid off all immigrants working or not and take the hardship for a few years for the greater good ok the UK". And there has been a HUGE bias of reporting of crimes on here to suit certain agendas

I haven't called Danish a racist but I would test the robustness of his regular claims like "that wouldn't happen if they were white" or "Are they only taking his claims seriously because he is a muslim". For example, I twice countered the former claim with a high profile case where people served actual time for a claim made by a white woman, not least to tuck up an Asian gentleman, and alas there was no response. If you want to make claims, you have to be prepared to engage, thats why you post things.....surely?? Its as much easier to take your ball home claiming everyones a woke leftist as it is to just call racist..........neither helps unless is glaringly obvious.


I really don't see where the problem comes from when most sane people agree there is an issue with CSE in this country...................
 
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Lilbaz said:
It's a widely shared view by many people in this country. Why do you think reform are leading the polls?
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Human nature, self serving and projection............aka human natures way of always looking for people to blame. Then fuelled by selected bias

I don't know Tommy Robinson personally so I can't answer the question, but I wonder why he was stood outside the court cases of Asians who committed crimes and not the two dozen of his old colleagues in the EDL who had committed the same crimes? Surely if you care about crimes against kids you care about crimes against kids............?? In fact I would suggest the outcry would or should be greater when you know its someone from your own community? But again only TR knows why he chooses that path.

When TR made the following claim (days after Southport no less) which was false and actually a 29yo white guy BTW, why did none of his supporters say "hang on Tommy, you are out of order"???" Because they don't care and it feed into their already fixed mindset (it also goes a long way to explain why the Liverpool driver was identified but no one wants to acknowledge that point either) That kind of false claim would see many people discredited in their day to day life..........not Tommy.......like, subscribe and donate here......

https://twitter.com/x/status/1819846462135812282

Why is Farage so keen to be friends with someone like Trump who has a deep history of sexual misconduct when he himself is here on a campaign trail against it in the Asian community and a so called advocate of women not being abused? Surely the optics to any normal person would see that as confusing, almost as confusing as all of them being a champion and mates with the Tate brothers??

My point being that there is a bias out there that is being fed into, in TR case because I actually think he knows what he is doing and in part its to make money, but people don't seemingly care, these people are teflon.

I learnt a long time ago that seemingly the truth does not seem to matter anymore
 
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markysimmo said:
So I take it he will apologise to those who demanded an enquiry 6 months ago then ??

www.bbc.co.uk

PM attacks those 'spreading lies' on grooming gangs as he hits back at Musk

The prime minister says those who spread misinformation about child sexual exploitation are "not interested in victims".
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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I don't think he needs to.

The government appointed Baroness Casey to do the fast-track review (including into the question of ethnicity of perpetrators) and she initially said that she did not think a national enquiry would be the best use of resources. Clearly she changed her opinion during her review and now that she has recommended a national enquiry, the government will be implementing her recommendation. To me it would have been wrong to set up the review and then pre-empt its findings by putting in place something that might not have been in the report.
I think the Professor Jay investigation that happened under the Conservatives also pronounced that a national enquiry was not necessary but there were a raft of other recommendations, none of which were implemented.

I do hope that the powers that be can in some fair way speed up the process as national enquiries can take years to get running and completed.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
I do hope that the powers that be can in some fair way speed up the process as national enquiries can take years to get running and completed.
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Hugely important part this, as is implementing change, which had not happened.

I read some of the report and despite the uproar of "cover ups" alot of the issues stem from there being too many agencies involved with no lines of communications between them to join up the dots from those that are being abused through to police reporting and therefore conviction. From memory one suggestion was to streamline that process and mandate that lines of reporting be made, whereas some were reticent to share details with the authorities.
 
I actually think Starmer wanted this to go away. He's shown he has zero principles.

However the right will only be happy with the enquiry if it validates their conjecture.

But I still won't stand for the Pakistani men being more likely to be groomers nonsense. I'm Pakistani. I'm not an exception to any trend. Also my actions are not defined by me being Pakistani. I was born and raised in West Yorkshire in a town where there was Pakistani grooming gangs. Those men are hated with such passion by the community there. However there seems to be a narrative that these devil's were allowed to carry on because they protected their own girls from such r a p e. You couldn't be further from the truth. These vile vermin would have done it to any vulnerable child. They are indiscriminate in my view. And there is no such thing as community leaders. These men would never attend the mosque. They weren't respected members of any community. They were a gang of pedo rapists.

Now that is anecdotal.

What we do need to do is remember the victims. Their stories. We need to work towards a society with less children in a social care system which doesn't protect them. In a society where the police do their job. Where men like these are not allowed near children.

And we need proper detergents. Punishments that reflect the crimes

I'll await the new evidence and data when it arrives and I will treat it with impartiality. If this makes it safer for young women then I'm all for it. I hope that's the intention.
 
LutonSpurs said:
I actually think Starmer wanted this to go away. He's shown he has zero principles.

However the right will only be happy with the enquiry if it validates their conjecture.

But I still won't stand for the Pakistani men being more likely to be groomers nonsense. I'm Pakistani. I'm not an exception to any trend. Also my actions are not defined by me being Pakistani. I was born and raised in West Yorkshire in a town where there was Pakistani grooming gangs. Those men are hated with such passion by the community there. However there seems to be a narrative that these devil's were allowed to carry on because they protected their own girls from such r a p e. You couldn't be further from the truth. These vile vermin would have done it to any vulnerable child. They are indiscriminate in my view. And there is no such thing as community leaders. These men would never attend the mosque. They weren't respected members of any community. They were a gang of pedo rapists.

Now that is anecdotal.

What we do need to do is remember the victims. Their stories. We need to work towards a society with less children in a social care system which doesn't protect them. In a society where the police do their job. Where men like these are not allowed near children.

And we need proper detergents. Punishments that reflect the crimes

I'll await the new evidence and data when it arrives and I will treat it with impartiality. If this makes it safer for young women then I'm all for it. I hope that's the intention.
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Bravo
 
Baleforce said:
I'd argue they are solely a victim.
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I would too, however the only way that can exist would in a crime free world.
10 is the point at which Brits reach the age of criminal responsibility, with 10-17 yrs old being still under youth justice.
There has to be a point somewhere where punishment exists, otherwise you increase the likelihood of people of that age being used for criminal activity because of the lack of consequence (the consequences here being I. Punishment for the individual, II. Removal of an asset for the gang leader)
 
LutonSpurs said:
I actually think Starmer wanted this to go away. He's shown he has zero principles.

However the right will only be happy with the enquiry if it validates their conjecture.

But I still won't stand for the Pakistani men being more likely to be groomers nonsense. I'm Pakistani. I'm not an exception to any trend. Also my actions are not defined by me being Pakistani. I was born and raised in West Yorkshire in a town where there was Pakistani grooming gangs. Those men are hated with such passion by the community there. However there seems to be a narrative that these devil's were allowed to carry on because they protected their own girls from such r a p e. You couldn't be further from the truth. These vile vermin would have done it to any vulnerable child. They are indiscriminate in my view. And there is no such thing as community leaders. These men would never attend the mosque. They weren't respected members of any community. They were a gang of pedo rapists.

Now that is anecdotal.

What we do need to do is remember the victims. Their stories. We need to work towards a society with less children in a social care system which doesn't protect them. In a society where the police do their job. Where men like these are not allowed near children.

And we need proper detergents. Punishments that reflect the crimes

I'll await the new evidence and data when it arrives and I will treat it with impartiality. If this makes it safer for young women then I'm all for it. I hope that's the intention.
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They didn't pick on white girls because they are white, they picked on white girls because those girls were more vulnerable than the girls in their community.
That's what abusers do, they go after the easy ones.
If there were vulnerable girls in their community that is who would have targeted.
 
LutonSpurs said:
I actually think Starmer wanted this to go away. He's shown he has zero principles.

However the right will only be happy with the enquiry if it validates their conjecture.

But I still won't stand for the Pakistani men being more likely to be groomers nonsense. I'm Pakistani. I'm not an exception to any trend. Also my actions are not defined by me being Pakistani. I was born and raised in West Yorkshire in a town where there was Pakistani grooming gangs. Those men are hated with such passion by the community there. However there seems to be a narrative that these devil's were allowed to carry on because they protected their own girls from such r a p e. You couldn't be further from the truth. These vile vermin would have done it to any vulnerable child. They are indiscriminate in my view. And there is no such thing as community leaders. These men would never attend the mosque. They weren't respected members of any community. They were a gang of pedo rapists.

Now that is anecdotal.

What we do need to do is remember the victims. Their stories. We need to work towards a society with less children in a social care system which doesn't protect them. In a society where the police do their job. Where men like these are not allowed near children.

And we need proper detergents. Punishments that reflect the crimes

I'll await the new evidence and data when it arrives and I will treat it with impartiality. If this makes it safer for young women then I'm all for it. I hope that's the intention.
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As I've said the real issue here isn't that British Pakistani men are more likely perpetrators of CSE, the real issue is that the Police and child safeguarding agencies were less likely to take appropriate action when allegations would have involved arrest/detention of significant numbers of these men in local high concentration communities for a fear of inflaming community relations and being labelled racist.

This has in the end fueled racism by actually creating an issue unique to those communities when the issue is by no means unique to the community.

It is the police and agency treatment of these cases that is the community specific problem not the community themselves.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
As I've said the real issue here isn't that British Pakistani men are more likely perpetrators of CSE, the real issue is that the Police and child safeguarding agencies were less likely to take appropriate action when allegations would have involved arrest/detention of significant numbers of these men in local high concentration communities for a fear of inflaming community relations and being labelled racist.

This has in the end fueled racism by actually creating an issue unique to those communities when the issue is by no means unique to the community.

It is the police and agency treatment of these cases that is the community specific problem not the community themselves.
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I have only seen in The Jay Report thst some social workers claimed their managers said not to focus on ethnicity. Where have police said this impacted them?
 
This article questions the evidence too.

Blaming the Rotherham abuse on a fear of being branded a racist is ludicrous | Hugh Muir https://www.theguardian.com/comment...tical-correctness-ludicrous?CMP=share_btn_url

Again the odd social worker claiming a manger said thst to them is disgusting if true. But the police issue is truly shocking if true. However I'd love to see the evidence. And meet these people scared of offending Pakistanis. We seem like fair game for abuse and hate from a scary proportion of this country. So it makes me question it.
 
LutonSpurs said:
I have only seen in The Jay Report thst some social workers claimed their managers said not to focus on ethnicity. Where have police said this impacted them?
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It's an easy out IMHO, it's a way of avoiding scrutiny for not doing your job properly.
Hint at something that no one is going to admit to because it's a "delicate" subject, it's such a simple narrative to hide behind.
 
LutonSpurs said:
This article questions the evidence too.

Blaming the Rotherham abuse on a fear of being branded a racist is ludicrous | Hugh Muir https://www.theguardian.com/comment...tical-correctness-ludicrous?CMP=share_btn_url

Again the odd social worker claiming a manger said thst to them is disgusting if true. But the police issue is truly shocking if true. However I'd love to see the evidence. And meet these people scared of offending Pakistanis. We seem like fair game for abuse and hate from a scary proportion of this country. So it makes me question it.
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Well as Glasgow spur said its a whole mix of things and at the heart of it, there are too many people getting paid healthy amounts in our public services that basically cant be bothered and there is very little consequence management in our public sector compared to private sector. Public sector staff move up the pay ladder every year until they hit the top of their band regardless of performance.
 
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