Xavi Simons

[DaveT316]

I personally thought we saw the whole range of Xavi yesterday. I don’t need to restate the positive stuff on the ball, but off it, he let so many runners go which could’ve cost us on many occasions. I can certainly see why there may be a lack of trust from managers.

 

[harr1984]

I personally thought we saw the whole range of Xavi yesterday. I don’t need to restate the positive stuff on the ball, but off it, he let so many runners go which could’ve cost us on many occasions. I can certainly see why there may be a lack of trust from managers.

How do you know he's not been given licence to 'cheat'? He's our only creative player, makes sense that he's allowed to conserves bit of energy - I see it with plenty of other clubs players.

I don't know many players who if not putting in the effort/following instruction of the manager that they play the whole 90 plus minutes.....

 

[DaveT316]

How do you know he's not been given licence to 'cheat'? He's our only creative player, makes sense that he's allowed to conserves bit of energy - I see it with plenty of other clubs players.

I don't know many players who if not putting in the effort/following instruction of the manager that they play the whole 90 plus minutes.....

Yep, that’s highly possible. The situation we’re in, I don’t like it, personally. Particularly when it’s in our own third and he just lets people go. If it was because he had pushed on and potentially couldn’t / wouldn’t get back, that’s different and potentially less damaging.

Anyway, I’ve been supportive of the notion as our most creative player, he has to play, for both the good and the bad he brings, with the good outweighing the bad.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I don't understand this at all. He played well for Frank in several games and less well in others! Brentford and Sunderland at home and also in games in the Champions League spring to mind. The inconsistency is pretty normal for a young player adapting to the PL. You also have to factor in that he watched while players around him succumbed to injury Odobert, Bents, Kudus. All the time having to adapt as we tried to cover for those injuries. And let's not forget it was Frank who signed him and played him pretty much from the get go and supported him when his form dipped. RDZ has been here 5 minutes. I reckon Simon's will continue to be inconsistent.

I really think with respect, people have to separate their dislike of Thomas Frank with the reality. Otherwise it starts to sound like "post truth" nonsense that characterises the World at the moment.

The issue is not just Xavi but every player looking far worse under Frank. It’s April and we’re talking about 2 other league games where he played well. This is not about the dislike of the man, who seems decent other than the gas lighting around risk taking and throwing last season’s achievements out when it suited his own narrative under pressure, and more about his tactical choices and how it impacted the squad. Our good players were isolated, played far too from from the areas of the pitch where they could be effective, for too long. Yesterday was our best performance of the season and it wasn’t even that great. It was just the type of performance that we could have been putting in more often, getting the best out of our players, and being nowhere near this mess.

There’s no post truth about it. There’s a good chance we’re getting relegated. This is actually happening. And I think absolving the guy who led us down this path is just strange.

 

[Robspur12]

The issue is not just Xavi but every player looking far worse under Frank. It’s April and we’re talking about 2 other league games where he played well. This is not about the dislike of the man, who seems decent other than the gas lighting around risk taking and throwing last season’s achievements out when it suited his own narrative under pressure, and more about his tactical choices and how it impacted the squad. Our good players were isolated, played far too from from the areas of the pitch where they could be effective, for too long. Yesterday was our best performance of the season and it wasn’t even that great. It was just the type of performance that we could have been putting in more often, getting the best out of our players, and being nowhere near this mess.

There’s no post truth about it. There’s a good chance we’re getting relegated. This is actually happening. And I think absolving the guy who led us down this path is just strange.

No one is absolving Frank of anything. He's a decent man who failed at Spurs. Won't be the first won't be the last. Make no mistake if the structures don't change at Spurs, RDZ will be gone at the end of next season too.

But the degree of story telling around Frank's time here is incredible. I have an issue with that. Call me old fashioned but I like to separate facts from musings as I inherently don't like people being bricked on. Maybe it's the ex copper in me. I also don't believe this is all on him either but rather the culmination of several bad seasons. We also had an appalling injury list which has crippled us now for 2 seasons. And guess what? we've been pants in the league both seasons.

Re Xavi, this is exactly what I mean. I didn't say he only played well in 2 games! I said those were ones that spring to mind. Being an ageing, balding middle aged man not much springs to mind these days. Plus it's a bit early to start saying every player looks better. And when has Thomas Frank gaslit us? I always found him to be truthful possibly too much. He praised his predecessor but was honest that we were not in the CL by qualifying through the PL. I really didn't see the issue.

Yesterday was good but let's not go overboard. We still gave away easy chances and didn't create much ourselves. And we still can't defend and haven't been able to effectively since the end of Conte's first season. Do you remember a few weeks ago after the CL game Vs Atletico people were talking about Igor becoming the next permanent manager?!

Basically with Spurs if you play the right style of football you're accepted if you don't not only are you not accepted every thing you did as manager must have been wrong.

 

[Robspur12]

How do you know he's not been given licence to 'cheat'? He's our only creative player, makes sense that he's allowed to conserves bit of energy - I see it with plenty of other clubs players.

I don't know many players who if not putting in the effort/following instruction of the manager that they play the whole 90 plus minutes.....

I seriously doubt it, because at a time we cannot defend for toffee, there isn't the luxury for any player to coast in the game. He needs to be working hard all the time to cover space when we don't have the ball. He can rest when the season is done. Yesterday there was a gaping hole on the right that enabled Mitoma to have a free shot in the area and score. If players like Muani had tracked back that wouldn't have happened and we might have defended a lead more effectively. I think with Xavi it's part of the settling in process. Unfortunately due to injuries we have been unable to let him settle and learn about this league.

 

[harr1984]

I seriously doubt it, because at a time we cannot defend for toffee, there isn't the luxury for any player to coast in the game. He needs to be working hard all the time to cover space. He can rest when the season is done. Yesterday there was a gaping hole on the right that enabled Mitoma to have a free shot in the area and score. If players like Muani had tracked back that wouldn't have happened and we might have defended a lead more effectively.

That's your opinion and how you see things which is fine, that doesn't mean to say it's the managers and how he wants us to go about things. If a manager is asking him to work and cover as you are talking about and he doesn't do it, he will take him off....

 

[metalgear]

good game but young head
should learn to be more humble and save his energy and big celebrations for the team's 3 points rather than his goal

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

No one is absolving Frank of anything. He's a decent man who failed at Spurs. Won't be the first won't be the last. Make no mistake if the structures don't change at Spurs, RDZ will be gone at the end of next season too.

But the degree of story telling around Frank's time here is incredible. I have an issue with that. Call me old fashioned but I like to separate facts from musings as I inherently don't like people being bricked on. Maybe it's the ex copper in me. I also don't believe this is all on him either but rather the culmination of several bad seasons. We also had an appalling injury list which has crippled us now for 2 seasons. And guess what? we've been pants in the league both seasons.

Re Xavi, this is exactly what I mean. I didn't say he only played well in 2 games! I said those were ones that spring to mind. Being an ageing, balding middle aged man not much springs to mind these days. Plus it's a bit early to start saying every player looks better. And when has Thomas Frank gaslit us? I always found him to be truthful possibly too much. He praised his predecessor but was honest that we were not in the CL by qualifying through the PL. I really didn't see the issue.

Yesterday was good but let's not go overboard. We still gave away easy chances and didn't create much ourselves. And we still can't defend and haven't been able to effectively since the end of Conte's first season. Do you remember a few weeks ago after the CL game Vs Atletico people were talking about Igor becoming the next permanent manager?!

Basically with Spurs if you play the right style of football you're accepted if you don't not only are you not accepted every thing you did as manager must have been wrong.

Fair enough. I respect where you’re coming from.

I just personally blame Frank a lot more than most other factors for where we are. I’m not really convinced we’ve been on an inevitable downward spiral, I think each season has had its own specific circumstances. And I think this seasons biggest factor was Frank. He took over a squad that felt great about winning trophy after coming through a horrific season beset by injuries, and decided to do everything completely different and build on none of it. And I think it was bad to not build on the previous season, and bad to play in a way that didn’t get anything out of our players.

On the gaslighting, two things come to mind. The first is that he said if you don’t take risks then you take a risk. But he played in the most risk averse way I’ve ever seen a Spurs team play. His words did not match his actions. The second thing is that when he joined he talks about standing on the shoulders of what Ange and the team achieved the year before, saying there are great foundations. And then when things get tough all of a sudden it’s we’re a big tanker that’s going to take a while to turn around, we’re not really a CL club, we finished 17th last season. I think for a supposed good bloke he was very willing to put his own narrative out there to protect himself, which probably has the dual effect of alienating the players further by trashing their ability and what they were able to achieve last season.

So I blame him, but I understand if you think this season is a continuation of a trend, then you won’t. Personally I just don’t think the season needed to be like this. It’s entirely self inflicted. And to bring it back to Xavi, I think he’s a really good example of how the manager was not equipped to get the best out of him.

 

[Robspur12]

That's your opinion and how you see things which is fine, that doesn't mean to say it's the managers and how he wants us to go about things. If a manager is asking him to work and cover as you are talking about and he doesn't do it, he will take him off....

You're right I don't know for sure. But we know that RDZ dropped Xavi vs Sunderland for Lucas Bergvall who offers more energy (albeit less channelled. And we know from his time at Brighton he expects his players to be high energy in game. Given that, I would have thought it unlikely (but not impossible), that RDZ would allow players to coast when his team are fighting relegation. But 1) he's been here 5 minutes 2) he doesn't have other creative options instead of Xavi.

 

[fernadez]

The issue is not just Xavi but every player looking far worse under Frank. It’s April and we’re talking about 2 other league games where he played well. This is not about the dislike of the man, who seems decent other than the gas lighting around risk taking and throwing last season’s achievements out when it suited his own narrative under pressure, and more about his tactical choices and how it impacted the squad. Our good players were isolated, played far too from from the areas of the pitch where they could be effective, for too long. Yesterday was our best performance of the season and it wasn’t even that great. It was just the type of performance that we could have been putting in more often, getting the best out of our players, and being nowhere near this mess.

There’s no post truth about it. There’s a good chance we’re getting relegated. This is actually happening. And I think absolving the guy who led us down this path is just strange.

Led us down this path is a bit strong.

He failed to improve our league form that was present for 18 months before he joined is surely a more accurate description.

 

[parklane1]

The guy is a special player imo, every time he gets the ball i feel he is going to do special things. Of course it/he will not do it everytime but the ability to do so it what i love to see in a player.

 

[El Dante]

It's about the sponsors. They pay big money to have their name on the shirt. When a goal goes in the cameras zoom in and it will be shown on highlights and in newspapers. They want their name shown.
As with everything these days it's about money. The players like their fat paychecks so have to play their part.

Why should the sponsors have any bearing on the rules? These are club sponsors and not sponsors of the league etc so you’d think the league wouldn’t care all too much. Players are taking their shirt off at hype moments which bring attention to the league, so those moments ought to be celebrated not quashed.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Led us down this path is a bit strong.

He failed to improve our league form that was present for 18 months before he joined is surely a more accurate description.

You do know that as coach and manager here he managed to set league records for not creating anything … repeatedly, as in historically low levels. And that’s as all this season

 

[thfcsteff]

I don't understand this at all. He played well for Frank in several games and less well in others! Brentford and Sunderland at home and also in games in the Champions League spring to mind. The inconsistency is pretty normal for a young player adapting to the PL. You also have to factor in that he watched while players around him succumbed to injury Odobert, Bents, Kudus. All the time having to adapt as we tried to cover for those injuries. And let's not forget it was Frank who signed him and played him pretty much from the get go and supported him when his form dipped. RDZ has been here 5 minutes. I reckon Simon's will continue to be inconsistent.

I really think with respect, people have to separate their dislike of Thomas Frank with the reality. Otherwise it starts to sound like "post truth" nonsense that characterises the World at the moment.

It's a tactical and managerial observation.
We never ever saw Frank set us up to play through/with Xavi on a consistent basis and we never saw Frank offer that sort of 'enjoy the ball' confidence which encourages people to try and also to shoot (Frank reportedly discouraged shots from outside the box).

I think the 'post truth' accusation is incredibly inaccurate and unfair, in fact I'd counter that employing it here is as much a potential post-truth as the concern expressed. Thomas Frank was a risk averse coach (for us at any rate) and players like Xavi are all about both risk and trust.

 

[thfcsteff]

I personally thought we saw the whole range of Xavi yesterday. I don’t need to restate the positive stuff on the ball, but off it, he let so many runners go which could’ve cost us on many occasions. I can certainly see why there may be a lack of trust from managers.

I think this is a great point re:runners, he did let people go too often, and it is wholly part of the risk/reward of playing him. This goes back to my assertion all along that TF did not really want this profile of player, at least not at that time.
However we have no other creativity so we need to take the risk with him IMO.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Led us down this path is a bit strong.

He failed to improve our league form that was present for 18 months before he joined is surely a more accurate description.

Nah, we’re about to get relegated. 23/24 was no where near as bad as people are making out in the second half of that season. 24/25 was no where near as bad in the first half. We then suffered horrific injuries and still won a trophy.

What we’re seeing now is on a whole other level.

I get that people can look at the trend and be happy with their assessment that this was likely to happen. But I just don’t agree. It requires having to think that our players are not good players, that they are actually 17th / 18th players. And that’s just not true. They’re much better than that.

My personal opinion is that by 1, deciding to play players in a system that most of them aren’t suited to and 2, deciding to basically say last season meant nothing and actually this is a 17th placed, poor side, (when actually those players likely looked upon last season as one of the best moments of their careers and a huge achievement) that it destroyed the confidence and culture of the squad. This season was not inevitable, but only a club that has failed to win a trophy for almost 20 years, finally does it and then sacks the manager that did it anyway could create these circumstances.

It was just so dumb. We broke the psychology of the team, from an absolute peak moment of togetherness. All to ‘reset the culture’ and ‘turn the tanker around’ with a manager who has no business managing the likes of Xavi Simons.

Anyway, that’s what I think the core reason for this season is. A breaking of the psychology. I respect anyone who says this is just a trend and actually these players are that bad, but I don’t think that argument stands up to scrutiny.

 

[billyiddo]

It's a tactical and managerial observation.
We never ever saw Frank set us up to play through/with Xavi on a consistent basis and we never saw Frank offer that sort of 'enjoy the ball' confidence which encourages people to try and also to shoot (Frank reportedly discouraged shots from outside the box).

I think the 'post truth' accusation is incredibly inaccurate and unfair, in fact I'd counter that employing it here is as much a potential post-truth as the concern expressed. Thomas Frank was a risk averse coach (for us at any rate) and players like Xavi are all about both risk and trust.

Xavi isn't a player that you play through, like Maddison or Eriksen. We didn't play through him yesterday and he was used similarly to how he has been used off the left previously, right now he's a moments player - he may develop in to a Maddison or Eriksen type but he's got a lot of developing in his game to get to that point.

 

[90sSpursBook]

Everything is relative. Xavi showed some real 'main character energy' yesterday but owing to a number of reasons (some his fault but others not) we've simply not seen enough of it this season so a outputs like what we saw yesterday were great but that should be the norm not just a twice a season occurrence.

Seeing Gibbs-White score a match winning hat-trick today (having also seen him score the decisive goal against us last month) also puts Xavi into perspective I'm afraid. Not his fault that he'll always be compared to Gibbs White (and Eze) in a 'lets see what you could have won' way.

 

[harr1984]

Gibbs - White is 26 and been playing in the PL for seasons.

Simons is an exciting talented player making his debut season in the PL at 22 years old and quite frankly is about the only attacking player that gets me the least bit excited. Its a shame that Madders has been out all this time as they will link up well - I hope we get to see it beyond this season....