Xavi Simons

[parklane1]

Of course he has not done it in everygame and i understand that some fans have doubts about him. However he is 22 and still growing into a much faster game [ premership]then he is used to.

But IMO the talent is there and if we use him the right way i really believe there is a top player there. We shall see.

 

[parklane1]

Gibbs - White is 26 and been playing in the PL for seasons.

Simons is an exciting talented player making his debut season in the PL at 22 years old and quite frankly is about the only attacking player that gets me the least bit excited. Its a shame that Madders has been out all this time as they will link up well - I hope we get to see it beyond this season....

Amen to that.

 

[Muttley]

Nah, we’re about to get relegated. 23/24 was no where near as bad as people are making out in the second half of that season. 24/25 was no where near as bad in the first half. We then suffered horrific injuries and still won a trophy.

What we’re seeing now is on a whole other level.

I get that people can look at the trend and be happy with their assessment that this was likely to happen. But I just don’t agree. It requires having to think that our players are not good players, that they are actually 17th / 18th players. And that’s just not true. They’re much better than that.

My personal opinion is that by 1, deciding to play players in a system that most of them aren’t suited to and 2, deciding to basically say last season meant nothing and actually this is a 17th placed, poor side, (when actually those players likely looked upon last season as one of the best moments of their careers and a huge achievement) that it destroyed the confidence and culture of the squad. This season was not inevitable, but only a club that has failed to win a trophy for almost 20 years, finally does it and then sacks the manager that did it anyway could create these circumstances.

It was just so dumb. We broke the psychology of the team, from an absolute peak moment of togetherness. All to ‘reset the culture’ and ‘turn the tanker around’ with a manager who has no business managing the likes of Xavi Simons.

Anyway, that’s what I think the core reason for this season is. A breaking of the psychology. I respect anyone who says this is just a trend and actually these players are that bad, but I don’t think that argument stands up to scrutiny.

Respectfully, I still think you're missing the elephant in the room and that is about THFC culture. From the very top, Lewis and Tavistock has made a clear statement for a very long time that winning football matches is not the be all and end all of their corporation. That permeated through ENIC and Levy who defined success as something different than what happened on the pitch. Ange walks into the club and basically says "play my way and when it doesn't work, it will be solely on me". Season 2 he then turns around and makes losing a PL match absolutely OK because we were going for gold in the EL. Then Frank basically comes into the club and does a very similar thing. He says "Keep doing what I ask you and eventually it will click". It's the "trust me, I'm a doctor" scenario from both these clowns. All Frank did was load onto the rubbish psychology that Ange had allowed within the player camp.

So when I watched Simons yesterday at final whistle, I saw a player that was in absolute pain about losing. I saw a player that didn't care a jot in a culture of "losing is OK" from Ange and Frank. He looked genuinely distressed. I can imagine De Zerbi has been like a bear with a sore head all weekend unlike Ange who was more pre-occupied about whether he "owned the journo's" in the pressers rather than whether we picked up 3 points. Ange's psychology was pretty poor when it came to creating a winning culture and Frank was exactly the same.

As you and I were talking about yesterday, there are a lof of dirty hands as to why we finds ourselves in this mess, Levy, Vinai and Lange need to take some bullets. Ange and Frank also deserve their fair share. Can't help feeling sorry for Xavi if he's taking more than those 5. He's a victim of circumstance in this plot to me. Xavi isn't the problem.

 

[thfcsteff]

Xavi isn't a player that you play through, like Maddison or Eriksen. We didn't play through him yesterday and he was used similarly to how he has been used off the left previously, right now he's a moments player - he may develop in to a Maddison or Eriksen type but he's got a lot of developing in his game to get to that point.

I probably used the phrase. Let me rephrase. Right now, all our play should be designed to bring Xavi into the game as much as possible, give him as much of the ball as possible, and allow him a free role to be the creator he is. Yesterday he essentially had a free role off the left, which allowed him to be central to anything of note we were creating. Yes, he was loose with his runners (something I believe you pointed out) but in a risk/reward/we have no other creativity moment, it is vital that we embrace what he can do...I think essentially he is absolutely who we have to make the centre of operations right now.

FWIW he had a lot of moments yesterday in that free drifting role, and had Attwell been less lenient on him getting thugged out, we might well have had several more chances too.

I stand by every criticism I have of Frank with regards to how he used Xavi/the team with him in it.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Respectfully, I still think you're missing the elephant in the room and that is about THFC culture. From the very top, Lewis and Tavistock has made a clear statement for a very long time that winning football matches is not the be all and end all of their corporation. That permeated through ENIC and Levy who defined success as something different than what happened on the pitch. Ange walks into the club and basically says "play my way and when it doesn't work, it will be solely on me". Season 2 he then turns around and makes losing a PL match absolutely OK because we were going for gold in the EL. Then Frank basically comes into the club and does a very similar thing. He says "Keep doing what I ask you and eventually it will click". It's the "trust me, I'm a doctor" scenario from both these clowns. All Frank did was load onto the rubbish psychology that Ange had allowed within the player camp.

So when I watched Simons yesterday at final whistle, I saw a player that was in absolute pain about losing. I saw a player that didn't care a jot in a culture of "losing is OK" from Ange and Frank. He looked genuinely distressed. I can imagine De Zerbi has been like a bear with a sore head all weekend unlike Ange who was more pre-occupied about whether he "owned the journo's" in the pressers rather than whether we picked up 3 points. Ange's psychology was pretty poor when it came to creating a winning culture and Frank was exactly the same.

As you and I were talking about yesterday, there are a lof of dirty hands as to why we finds ourselves in this mess, Levy, Vinai and Lange need to take some bullets. Ange and Frank also deserve their fair share. Can't help feeling sorry for Xavi if he's taking more than those 5. He's a victim of circumstance in this plot to me. Xavi isn't the problem.

I completely agree with what you’re saying on ENIC, I just don’t on Ange. I think he accepted there was a greater chance of losing games in the league because he wanted to give the players something to remember the season by after injuries ruined the league season. But if we think back to how he felt about losing to Emirates Marketing Project so Arsenal wouldn’t win the league…he hated that. He wanted to win. And I think he saw the value winning a trophy would do for the club.

To then bring it back to ENIC, they didn’t see that value, they didn’t think there was anything to be gained from what Ange left us with. And we are where we are

 

[thfcsteff]

Respectfully, I still think you're missing the elephant in the room and that is about THFC culture. From the very top, Lewis and Tavistock has made a clear statement for a very long time that winning football matches is not the be all and end all of their corporation. That permeated through ENIC and Levy who defined success as something different than what happened on the pitch. Ange walks into the club and basically says "play my way and when it doesn't work, it will be solely on me". Season 2 he then turns around and makes losing a PL match absolutely OK because we were going for gold in the EL. Then Frank basically comes into the club and does a very similar thing. He says "Keep doing what I ask you and eventually it will click". It's the "trust me, I'm a doctor" scenario from both these clowns. All Frank did was load onto the rubbish psychology that Ange had allowed within the player camp.

So when I watched Simons yesterday at final whistle, I saw a player that was in absolute pain about losing. I saw a player that didn't care a jot in a culture of "losing is OK" from Ange and Frank. He looked genuinely distressed. I can imagine De Zerbi has been like a bear with a sore head all weekend unlike Ange who was more pre-occupied about whether he "owned the journo's" in the pressers rather than whether we picked up 3 points. Ange's psychology was pretty poor when it came to creating a winning culture and Frank was exactly the same.

As you and I were talking about yesterday, there are a lof of dirty hands as to why we finds ourselves in this mess, Levy, Vinai and Lange need to take some bullets. Ange and Frank also deserve their fair share. Can't help feeling sorry for Xavi if he's taking more than those 5. He's a victim of circumstance in this plot to me. Xavi isn't the problem.

I agree with most of this, except the puzzling line 'Ange's psychology was pretty poor when it came to creating a winning culture' and comparing him directly with Frank. Postecoglu had injuries everywhere and little support around him as that second season went into the New Year. He created a way to win. I don't know if it is fair to say he was 'poor' in creating a 'winning culture' because just as he won, we broke it up and went back to reset. Frank came in with a clean slate plus the trimmings of a side in the CL. By Xmas, he was telling us we weren't a real CL club because we didn't do it the 'right' way.

I think the Tavistock/Lewis observation is on point.