Gazza Dazzla
Jimmy McCormick
20 years old FFS, I predict some went big and early on this kid, in a negative way..
-
Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara
Wilson Odobert
- Thread starter Hotspur75
- Start date
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
Indeed.
The stats when we get to play that five (Vic, Porro, Romero, VdV, Udogie) must be great because we are a different side when they play.
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
I think the observations have been fair TBH. He has not produced enough and he is young with great potential. He is a player who needs other good ones around him to shine; he is not a player who will 'carry' games and 'bring' them on his shoulders IMO, however put him in a team with a few other really good technical players and it brings better out of him and he gives them something too. Playing him as a left-winger and isolating him is not going to go well for anyone, because he simply is not a player who at the first sight of green wants to challenge his defender by pushing it past him.
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
he is absolutely getting better with the defensive side of that role, agreed.
Think thevpoint is he is 20. What is "producing enough" for a 20 year old?
parklane1
Teddy Sheringham
Indeed.
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
He has not yet shown the consistent instinct to push into spaces/attack/take people that his skillset suggests he could. At the moment he generally performs like a decent, functional player who is still trying to learn when to release, when to carry, when to attack the space, when to challenge the marker.
I will repeat that if we were to playn systems/use him in ways which maximise his talent (touch, fast interplay, etc) I think we would see much more from him and a growth in confidence
If we continue to play him as a left winger in the same way we play Kudus on the right, then he will have to kick it up a gear and start producing a higher rate of successful dribbles/successful crosses into the box. That is surely undeniable? If we continue to find other ways to deploy him/players around him who can help that deployment, then all good. Last night, he had Udogie (a LB) who could allow him to cut inside, and he had Xavi with whom he could play more intricate, fast football. Those three worked very well together. Isolating him and playing two deep midfielders with a right-footed LB does not help him be who I believe he is/could be as a player.
I look at it differently. Tel, odobert, gray, bergvall, moore are not for this season maybe not even for next. They are long term investments to be class in the future. Which may help us achieve our ultimate goals.
Modric, bale, kane were not world class at 20. Modric hadn't had a senior game.
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
I agree (albeit it is pretty clear the club disagree as Odobert is Frank's first choice right now on the left and we did not sign an upgrade - yet).
And I think there's a difference between the players you've spotlit.
Bergvall is clearly -clearly- destined for a top career if he avoids chronic injuries. He plays with front-foot instinct and personality. Gray is clearly - clearly - destined for a top level career if he avoids chronic injury. He can perform with calm maturity, vision and engagement in at least four positions on the pitch, and has shown excellent instincts with regards to timing of certain actions when playing as an 8. Tel clearly has great talent and needs time and patience to develop, I remain 50/50 on whether that will be in the Premier League or abroad, and I believe Odobert is in the same category. Moore? I mean, the kid did us a major, major service by potentially throwing his development off-kilter and dropping in to help in an emergency. He needs several years.
I personally get tired of 'blanket comparisons' whenever observations of a young player are made. It's not as if anyone is saying the likes of Odobert are total brick, in my case, I am offering measured but honest personal opinions. The three players you have picked out are insane benchmarks to apply in not just this context, but any. I think I know what you're trying to say (i.e. at this age no-one can really tell) and that is true.
Given the point you're trying to make, I'm surprised you have not mentioned Dane Scarlett, who absolutely looks different to even a year ago in both physicality and performance/awareness on the pitch. I'd be giving him more time now personally, as it seems like he has developed a lot in the last year.
Fans have been critical of our young players. Tel especially.
There is nothing sure if any of them being great.
For me though i'd give them till 22.
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
I have been speaking about Odobert personally. Again, players are all different.
There is nothing sure in football, but we can all speculate. Based on decades of watching, I will say that I do not think Odobert will be a regular starter for us in 12 months time, as I believe we will upgrade. My opinion. Would be delighted to be proven wrong.
Bishop
Chris Perry
The more we see of him, the less he looks an outright winger and more of a wide AM if you will. Hes got lots of neat touches and has a good understanding of the flow of the game. He might never quite be a 10+ goal a season guy but hes someone who I can see growing into a strong contributor, getting assists, making key passes and just generally helping the attack progress. If he builds on the direct goal threat as well, he could become quite the player. For me, of all the LWF options, hes the most talented and the one I have some belief in that he can actually make it here at Spurs.
I think he's the perfect development player, whereby if we did have a starter of real quality, having Odobert bubbling underneath would be a really strong position to be in; the starter plus the understudy. As it stands we just have understudies and some of them quite questionable. I hope he keeps getting the minutes because as noticed he's already displayed a decent understanding with Udogie, and we saw progress in that regard as well with Simons and Muani. Both of whom are players that I feel need smart linky players in their orbit and on their wavelength to really perform at their best.
Bishop
Chris Perry
If you're playing games, no matter your age you need to produce "something" otherwise you're wasting a spot and your chance. We have to remember that the 1st team is not a development crèche, young players get their chances and minutes because the coach believes they can contribute positively, not just because they want to give a young player some minutes. How much that "something" is, is subjective but If they can't contribute that "something" they will soon find themselves out of the team, eventually the squad and the club entirely.
Last edited:
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
I am in agreement mate.
SpurMeUp
Tommy Harmer
I think the point @Lilbaz and others are making, is you can't possibly know how a young player will develop. There are so many variables. Everything is on the table still. And who knows what will occur. Butterfly effect - maybe there is one conversation with a coach which changes them. Maybe they grow physically. Etc etc etc.
These players are only playing for us because they have huge committment and clear ability. How they'll kick on or whether they do is unknown. The coaches and families will support them, but we don't know the future.
Odobert shows great intent. He's willing. And as a manager, that is a big plus. Will he develop to be more clinical in attack? That is the key question. Players like Kane show that you never know who'll turn that corner and become a world beater.
These players are only playing for us because they have huge committment and clear ability. How they'll kick on or whether they do is unknown. The coaches and families will support them, but we don't know the future.
Odobert shows great intent. He's willing. And as a manager, that is a big plus. Will he develop to be more clinical in attack? That is the key question. Players like Kane show that you never know who'll turn that corner and become a world beater.
He has been contributing. He's not the finished article though. So yes it is a develepment creche to an extent.
THe question is should he be first choice? If the answer is no then bring him on from the bench. If the answer is yes then maybe go less on the criticism and have patience.
Now people as usual will say buy an upgrade and that is fine. But that can wait till the window and is dependent on a lot of other factors.
Bishop
Chris Perry
Is it criticism or is it just an honest assessment of how he has performed so far? I say that as someone who has been an advocate for him being the starter on the left. I don't see an issue if others are currently unimpressed or unconvinced and are stating that opinion.
I don't really get your latter point. if people think we need an upgrade they should wait to discuss that once the window opens? I mean thats what levy did for so many years and we saw how well that worked in the windows.
Personally I really like the look of him, and think he’s contributing enough already to be a quality backup (taking into account his age and potential). Just a shame we don’t have someone more proven/experienced ahead of him. But if he keeps getting playtime because of that, I wouldn’t rule out him being close to starter quality by next summer.
This is where it all stems down to the patience thing. I've been critical of how we have played football in the past few weeks because of the lack of passing and moving, but when it comes to the players themselves I'm ok with giving it time as we have bought a fair few who still have to develop.
For the here and now it would be great to have a quality left winger bringing big numbers to the table from the get go, but at the same time it will be nice to see someone like Odobert be given a year or two to develop with consistent game time and let him sink or swim. Hoping the same thing would happen with Gray as I don't think our CMs are that good he shouldn't be getting more consistent game time....