Who would we miss the most ?

[thfcsteff]

Since you ask, I have played for my country. my university, an FA Cup winning club and was on the books of a professional team. I broke numerous goalscoring records. How about you?

If you are being sarcastic, it's a sad day. My question was meant with great sincerity. The reason I asked was because often, if you have played for any number of years, you understand with a greater dimension the importance of certain types of player. I'm genuinely sorry you decided to take offense...if, however, you are telling the truth, I'd love to know who!

 

[Pirate55]

Bale is (of course) a phenomenal player, but equally, we had other injuries plus a CL campaign which contributed to 5th place (not to mention Harry's wobbles)...

It was Bale's injuries at the end of the campaign though that cost us 4th spot. If he had remained fit who knows where we would have finished.

Has Modric won PFA Player of the year and been in both the Premiership and UEFA teams of the year? Bale has been described as the best left sided attacking player in Europe. I dont hear the same type of accolades being heaped on Modric by outsiders.

 

[Pirate55]

If you are being sarcastic, it's a sad day. My question was meant with great sincerity. The reason I asked was because often, if you have played for any number of years, you understand with a greater dimension the importance of certain types of player. I'm genuinely sorry you decided to take offense...if, however, you are telling the truth, I'd love to know who!

No sarcasm. I tell the truth. You havent answered my question about yourself though.

 

[thfcsteff]

No sarcasm. I tell the truth. You havent answered my question about yourself though.

No, I have played the game at various non-professional levels since I was a boy (am now 45 and still play twice a week) and coached various youth teams. Got to be honest Pirate, I don't believe you...there again, 'tis unimportant. if you did, you did...but it would lead me to question quite how you do not understand the importance of Luka Modric to our side and how irreplaceable he is, as I can assure you, many MANY professionals rate him extremely highly (and this I CAN guarantee)...over to you...

 

[Pirate55]

No, I have played the game at various non-professional levels since I was a boy (am now 45 and still play twice a week) and coached various youth teams. Got to be honest Pirate, I don't believe you...there again, 'tis unimportant. if you did, you did...but it would lead me to question quite how you do not understand the importance of Luka Modric to our side and how irreplaceable he is, as I can assure you, many MANY professionals rate him extremely highly (and this I CAN guarantee)...over to you...

You can believe what you like. Anyone is entitled to their opinion whether they have played the game or not. I dont think Luca is a bad player. I think he is a very good player, blessed with some fabulous attributes. However, the key is whether his loss to Spurs would be greater than Bales. I dont think it would. If Bale got injured, where would the goals and assists come from? He is often the most instrumental in setting up our attacking play and often finishing it off. Without him, we would not be the same threat going forward. Pretty football, bending the ball in your own half to a player only 20 yards away is all very well, but goals win games. Bale is a goal machine. Hence my advocacy here that he is the one we can least afford to lose.

 

[thfcsteff]

You can believe what you like. Anyone is entitled to their opinion whether they have played the game or not. I dont think Luca is a bad player. I think he is a very good player, blessed with some fabulous attributes. However, the key is whether his loss to Spurs would be greater than Bales. I dont think it would. If Bale got injured, where would the goals and assists come from? He is often the most instrumental in setting up our attacking play and often finishing it off. Without him, we would not be the same threat going forward. Pretty football, bending the ball in your own half to a player only 20 yards away is all very well, but goals win games. Bale is a goal machine. Hence my advocacy here that he is the one we can least afford to lose.

OK, we'll leave it at that. I don't think you're up for a deep discussion more than reiterating your belief. And absolutely! Who would deny Bale's talent? Not I. Not any Spurs supporter. But I''ll finish by saying it is such a great shame you take such offense to the question; who denied you your opinion? No-one. The reason behind my question as to whether you played or not came from a very genuine place (if you're interested as to why I asked I invite further discussion); if you're to insecure to acknowledge that, then I humbly, and unreservedly, apologize for any offense caused. And I mean that.

 

[africanspurs]

Not at all. Is Modric a defensive midfielder in your opinion? The answer surely is no. Therefore you must compare apples to apples. He is not a Barry, Song, Essien, Cattermole, Ciote or Parker. Is he a midfield maestro like Fabragas, Gerrard, Lampard? No. Should he be? In my view, he should be more so as he has Parker/Sandro sitting. We dont need two sitters - especially with VDV coming deep.

sorry mate, i know you're getting it from all sides so i dont mean to add to your stress BUT...

that thing you said about pirlo and xavi dominating the midfield therefore their teams dominate because of it...if you notice i picked players that do primarily playmaking and littlre more of anything else that you would consider tangible / easy noticeable ...i did that so as to mirror the criteria you put out there i.e tackles, goals, assists etc etc

now i dont want to assume to much here but is there a chance that the reason barca and the milan of 5 or 6 years ago dominated their football by have a little something to do with the quality of players they had? i.e the best in the world? xavi has played without both iniesta and messi...an sad to say xavi just looked like a very good technical passer with good spatial awareness. my point is that barca do dominate primarily cause of the work of xavi and iniesta...but it amplified because they play together and have been for quite some time....they als have the best player in the world

as for comparing modric to lampard and gerrad and cesc...i'm sorry but i cant agree with that. you're saying that modric is at the tip with sandro and parker sitting? but how often have we seen that lineup? very few is the answer. therefore you cant compare productivity against players that have a ful time occupation with two sitters behind them which traditionally is lamps, gerrard, cesc etc etc. its just isnt a fair comparison.

have you seen lampard in a 442 or even as the deeper guy in 5 man midfield. he looks completely edged out and lethargic and behind the pace of the game. cesc though is still extrememly influential yet he doesnt have the same productivity , much like modric

in essence you're comparing modric to players with less defensive responsibility, who make a habit of going up on the edge of the box while having two sitters behind. if you want to compare modric then you have to have to wait for a prolonged period of time with modric in that same sort of role.

 

[africanspurs]

You can believe what you like. Anyone is entitled to their opinion whether they have played the game or not. I dont think Luca is a bad player. I think he is a very good player, blessed with some fabulous attributes. However, the key is whether his loss to Spurs would be greater than Bales. I dont think it would. If Bale got injured, where would the goals and assists come from? He is often the most instrumental in setting up our attacking play and often finishing it off. Without him, we would not be the same threat going forward. Pretty football, bending the ball in your own half to a player only 20 yards away is all very well, but goals win games. Bale is a goal machine. Hence my advocacy here that he is the one we can least afford to lose.

makes you wonder if there was life before bale dont it? I see your from the football religious cast that confirms the creed

"in the beginning there was bale.....and tottenham is bale and bale is tottenham"

only kidding mate....i dont think we can replace bale, what we can do is try and maintain as much productivity from that position as we can.

i give you the wonky!!!

 

[ArcspacE]

It's my belief that the main goalscorer of any team is the most important player. Goes back to the old cliche, the hardest thing to do is to stick the ball in the back of the net. That's why strikers/goalscoring midfielders get sold for obscene amounts of money like ?ú80m in Ronaldo's case. Teams generally don't win leagues without a player who scores 20 goals minimum a season. Modric is a fantastic player, but Bale's goal threat is what separates the two in my opinion.

Agreed

Who would the Qatar Foundation miss more - Xavi Hernadez or Messi? (playmaker vs goal-scorer not a direct comparison before someone squeals Bale is as good as Messi)

Or Real Madrid for that matter - Ronaldo or Xabi Alonso?

Van Persie or Song?

 

[mick cooper]

in the first game we were mullered. In the second game we played better, but I recall that we had Sandro and Livermore in the middle. Still lost both games heavily.

I was talking about the second game - your comment was about the midfield and without putting any effort in, I proved you to be wrong.

 

[mick cooper]

I plead guilty to being high handed on occasions but I can't remember ever posting "I think this and if you disagree you know nothing about..." I don't wish this to dissolve into another argument though and think it would be in the best interests of this thread if we both let it go.

I'm more than happy to let it go Milo, but I did point out that I posted a follow up mail explaining that it was meant to be a joke.

Its kind of important to me that you look at all aspects of what I have to say, rather than castigating me for the bits that suit your purposes.

 

[mick cooper]

try to read into what people actually are trying to say. what does this mean?

I am sorry that you dont want to accept as valid any opinion other than your own. That doesnt mean it isnt right though or perhaps equally valid. Football is all about different opinions.

Nor does being in the major minority also "prove" your argument has more validity by the way.

Everyone on GG seems to take things incredibly personally if someone expresses a different viewpoint.

I think it has more to do with expressing a viewpoint that is fundamentally inaccurate.

Which a lot of us think is what you are doing.

You are just ploughing on regardless, rather than looking at our viewpoints, on the basis that if you keep hitting the same point hard enough, it will be embraced with the same mindless enthusiasm.

Go you.

 

[thfcsteff]

Agreed

Who would the Qatar Foundation miss more - Xavi Hernadez or Messi? (playmaker vs goal-scorer not a direct comparison before someone squeals Bale is as good as Messi)

Or Real Madrid for that matter - Ronaldo or Xabi Alonso?

Van Persie or Song?

There is a lurking problem for this argument though mate...I already aired it with the example of Bent...what about Defoe? His goals and assists stats are better than Modric's, so does that make him more irreplaceable? I mean, we know the answer of course, but I think it's a strange argument. BTW, if Bale actually hit the target as much as Van Persie or Ronaldo,better still, if he practiced his set-pieces and got those flying in again, then it might be a closer call IMHO...

 

[Kingdawson]

I honestly think 'Modric type players' are overrated in this league. Sure it would great to have a modric type player but you can get around it if one isn't available. In Seria A or La Liga those kind of players are more valuable due to the pace of the game, they can dictate play more, more time to pick a pass etc etc.

In this league it's the direct players that matter most. The ones that score and produce on a consistent basis. Take Chelski for example, for years they've played a midfield 3 with no 'Modric type' player and have still consistently been challenging for leagues because they had a direct cm like Lampard in there team. Lampard is nowhere near as naturally gifted as Luka, Lampard is not as creative as Luka, but Lampard is far more direct and provides a goal threat.

I'm not saying we wouldn't struggle without Luka in the team because we would but there are far more ways around it than losing Ade or Bale. Take the WBA game where Luka didn't play. Did you see how many chances we was actually creating? how many clear chances we had? we battered them. Imo without Bale or Ade we MIGHT sneak a win in that game if we're lucky but we don't put that type of performance in.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Look at the statistics for Modric's assists this season. Then look at the chances he has had and the goals he hasnt scored. Finally, ask yourself which game he turned one point into three or nil points into one. It is his effectiveness I question not his ability.

Why are you so hung up on goals and assists, it's not what he's primarily in the team for, it's a bonus if he gets the odd goal or assist, although everyone is in agreement he should score more as sometimes his shooting is a bit off. But he's so much more than that, if you judged Alonso, Pirlo or Xavi on goals and assists then you'd think they don't influence games or dominate games as well?

 

[Kingdawson]

Ok just looked at the stats for the WBA away game and it was :

23 shots vs 9 shots in our favour
9 shots on target to 4 shots on target in our favour
14 shots off target to 5 shots of target in our favour
59% to 41% possession in our favour

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

impressive stats, but looking at 1 game in isolation isn't really a representive sample, for instance West Brom could have had a really poor day, maybe they didn't, but it's a possibility that could be ruled out if we dominated like that against, say 5 other teams with Modric not there.

Again this isn't a representive sample, but we were awful against Stevenage away without Modric as well, this can be rationalised by saying there were a few other changes to the team as well, but that should be offset against the standard of opposition.

 

[Mumorn]

For those thinking that Modric isn't as important as other players. Why would you bring up the West Brom game and not the whole fact we missed him for four months during 2009/2010 and still maintained our fight for 4th?

By the way, we had no Bale, VDV or Adebayor back then in that situation neither.. so what is it that makes my pants sticky? is it Lennon?

 

[Modric THFC]

Agreed

Who would the Qatar Foundation miss more - Xavi Hernadez or Messi? (playmaker vs goal-scorer not a direct comparison before someone squeals Bale is as good as Messi)

Or Real Madrid for that matter - Ronaldo or Xabi Alonso?

Van Persie or Song?

But we don't have a Ronaldo/Messi/Van Persie type goal scorer in our team.
We have Ade on 13 goals and Bale, Defoe and Vdv on 9 goals.
Whereas Ronaldo has 37, Messi 36 and Van Persie 26.

 

[Kingdawson]

For those thinking that Modric isn't as important as other players. Why would you bring up the West Brom game and not the whole fact we missed him for four months during 2009/2010 and still maintained our fight for 4th?

By the way, we had no Bale, VDV or Adebayor back then in that situation neither.. so what is it that makes my pants sticky? is it Lennon?

We're talking about this season where we had Bale, Ade and Modric (hence me also missing out the first 2 games of this season). Why would we bring up brick from 2 seasons back.