Who we've, bought so far thread...

[AdamB]

We may not have to sell, but I don't buy the idea that transfer money are kept separate from everything else.

I completely agree - and the comments from Levy that Poch hasnt been prevented from buying anyone else that he wants, or our finances haven't stopped us in the transfer market, are simply nonsense. However it has to be that way for another year or so - given construction costs, even when well planned, can easily end up missing by 10% - 20% then when you think that the stadium is meant to be costing £800m, thats £80m - £160m margin of error. The financing docs will also have had a business plan attached to them which would have included a line for transfer spend, and therefore we'd need to be running the business in-line with that, at least until the stadium is done.

All that said, I dont agree with various people's comments that the squad is fine as it is and that if we dont buy anyone then we're ok. We have minimal cover at CB, particularly if we want to play 3 at the back, and our options off the bench last year were awful. Shipping out Walker and Sissoko should mean we can cover those reasonably though

 

[Glenda's Legs]

I don't think it's a total untruth when Levy says that the new stadium costs will not impact on transfers, more likely a bit disingenuous. Levy will have told Poch (or agreed with Poch) what our transfer budget is and nothing to do with the stadium from thereonin will affect that. It is just a bit of a meaningless statement to say the stadium build will have no impact on the transfer budget because the stadium build was most likely taken into account when setting the available budget in the first place (and that would make perfect sense).
If we end up with a transfer surplus then I cant see any issue with that going towards the NWHL build fund.
Levy is certainly prudent. But if the right Poch player is available for an affordable amount (transfer fee + wages) then Levy is not going to hold off because of the new stadium.
It's unusual, but I kind of like being in this situation : i.e. wanting to add to the squad but not feeling it will be a disaster if we don't. Strange times.

 

[parklane1]

There will ALWAYS be fans who think/believe we need a couple of players to be brought in during the summer window. We could win the double and you will always get some fans saying we need a couple of additions otherwise we will " be standing still" " falling behind" etc,etc.

It is the make up of some fans to want, demand new players no matter where we are.

 

[the dza]

There will ALWAYS be fans who think/believe we need a couple of players to be brought in during the summer window. We could win the double and you will always get some fans saying we need a couple of additions otherwise we will " be standing still" " falling behind" etc,etc.

It is the make up of some fans to want, demand new players no matter where we are.

I think most managers tend to think this way too though. Fergie used to always buy a couple of players, no matter what happened the previous season. Stops things going stale and keeps everyone on their toes.

I'm happy with our squad, but I think we will end up adding one or two before the deadline.

 

[alekaras]

The squad is OK, assuming we are not planning to challenge on all fronts. Given the situation (new stadium, ridiculous transfer fees, impossible to improve first XI), I would be quite OK with us focusing on just the league and CL and roll the dice with our youngsters in the cups. A squad of 15-16 strong players (which we have) should be able to deal with two competitions.

 

[DubaiSpur]

@alekaras - I disagree, mate. 16 players is not good enough for the league + CL. Not by a long shot. At least 18 first team players are needed to even focus on the league alone - with the CL, I suspect it's more like twenty (if you plan on going deep into it, anyway) and with the cups, more like 22. Just ballpark estimates, but I feel like going into the season with 15 players is shaping up for failure no matter how you slice it.

There will ALWAYS be fans who think/believe we need a couple of players to be brought in during the summer window. We could win the double and you will always get some fans saying we need a couple of additions otherwise we will " be standing still" " falling behind" etc,etc.

It is the make up of some fans to want, demand new players no matter where we are.

I refer you to @alekaras ' post -

The squad is OK, assuming we are not planning to challenge on all fronts. Given the situation (new stadium, ridiculous transfer fees, impossible to improve first XI), I would be quite OK with us focusing on just the league and CL and roll the dice with our youngsters in the cups. A squad of 15-16 strong players (which we have) should be able to deal with two competitions.

...and I'd like to get your opinion on it. @alekaras is suggesting that we can't compete in the cups with the squad we have, and that sacrificing them for the league + CL (neither of which we are particularly likely to win, imo) is an acceptable outcome if we buy nobody.

I know that will at the very least clash with your belief (which I share) that winning a cup is vital to building the foundations we need to press on, alongside a host of other things.

So, in light of that fact, do you still think that wanting additions is folly if it means being able to compete in the cups (if @alekaras is right, of course)?

 

[billyiddo]

There will ALWAYS be fans who think/believe we need a couple of players to be brought in during the summer window. We could win the double and you will always get some fans saying we need a couple of additions otherwise we will " be standing still" " falling behind" etc,etc.

It is the make up of some fans to want, demand new players no matter where we are.

Until you're the best there's always room for improvement

 

[parklane1]

@alekaras - I disagree, mate. 16 players is not good enough for the league + CL. Not by a long shot. At least 18 first team players are needed to even focus on the league alone - with the CL, I suspect it's more like twenty (if you plan on going deep into it, anyway) and with the cups, more like 22. Just ballpark estimates, but I feel like going into the season with 15 players is shaping up for failure no matter how you slice it.





I refer you to @alekaras ' post -



...and I'd like to get your opinion on it. @alekaras is suggesting that we can't compete in the cups with the squad we have, and that sacrificing them for the league + CL (neither of which we are particularly likely to win, imo) is an acceptable outcome if we buy nobody.

I know that will at the very least clash with your belief (which I share) that winning a cup is vital to building the foundations we need to press on, alongside a host of other things.

So, in light of that fact, do you still think that wanting additions is folly if it means being able to compete in the cups (if @alekaras is right, of course)?

I do not think i have ever said i think its folly to want additions?, what i do think though is IF we are unable to get those additions ( but only if Poch wants them) i do see not see the need to throw my toys out of the pram and suggest " we are falling behind" " we are standing still" etc,etc which i am SURE some will bleat.

 

[parklane1]

Until you're the best there's always room for improvement

Well it depends on what you consider to be the best, the table says Chelski were the best last season but they still have to buy players. Of course there is always room for improvement ( i have never said the opposite)

 

[DubaiSpur]

I do not think i have ever said i think its folly to want additions?, what i do think though is IF we are unable to get those additions ( but only if Poch wants them) i do see not see the need to throw my toys out of the pram and suggest " we are falling behind" " we are standing still" etc,etc which i am SURE some will bleat.

No, fair enough - you never said wanting us to buy some new players was itself a bad thing. But let me make my point a bit more specific - last season, we got to the semi-final of the FA Cup, and finished 2nd in the league.

If we finish this window with no additions, then, as per @alekaras ' suggestion, we will have to sacrifice the cups for a chance to stand still in PL terms (i.e, compete at the top).

So we will have to sacrifice the chance to replicate that FA Cup run that we had last season just to stay at the top, Prem-wise.

Ergo, how is that *not* falling behind or standing still? It's still just a hypothetical argument mate, but I think you're being unfair on the people with those concerns.

 

[parklane1]

No, fair enough - you never said wanting us to buy some new players was itself a bad thing. But let me make my point a bit more specific - last season, we got to the semi-final of the FA Cup, and finished 2nd in the league.

If we finish this window with no additions, then, as per @alekaras ' suggestion, we will have to sacrifice the cups for a chance to stand still in PL terms (i.e, compete at the top).

So we will have to sacrifice the chance to replicate that FA Cup run that we had last season just to stay at the top, Prem-wise.

Ergo, how is that *not* falling behind or standing still? It's still just a hypothetical argument mate, but I think you're being unfair on the people with those concerns.

But all he has done is say what he thinks may happen ie his opinion, now i do not agree with that and so i do not think in those terms.

 

[billyiddo]

Well it depends on what you consider to be the best, the table says Chelski were the best last season but they still have to buy players. Of course there is always room for improvement ( i have never said the opposite)

But you're literally complaining about fans wanting a couple more additions ie wanting to see us improve - why would that annoy you so much/at all?

What's wrong in thinking we can improve and wanting to see progression...

 

[parklane1]

But you're literally complaining about fans wanting a couple more additions ie wanting to see us improve - why would that annoy you so much/at all?

What's wrong in thinking we can improve and wanting to see progression...

Wrong, i am not complaining about fans wanting players ( as i said in my earlier post ALL fans want new players), what annoys me ( using your wording) is that when we are unable to do so for what ever reasons ( flimflam reports in the papers about us wanting this and that player, money, lack of interest by Poch etc,etc) is that they then start bleating about Levy/Lewis being tight, standing still, going backwards ( i could go on but i am sure you understand).

There is nothing wrong in wanting to improve and see progression ( lets face it anyone who can not see that is what we have been doing for years must be blind). But we have to be realistic ( however hard that must be for some fans) and except that there is still a few clubs above us who have far more resources then we have ( at this moment in time).

 

[alekaras]

@alekaras - I disagree, mate. 16 players is not good enough for the league + CL. Not by a long shot. At least 18 first team players are needed to even focus on the league alone - with the CL, I suspect it's more like twenty (if you plan on going deep into it, anyway) and with the cups, more like 22. Just ballpark estimates, but I feel like going into the season with 15 players is shaping up for failure no matter how you slice it.

Let's see who we have again:

First XI: Lloris, Trippier, Toby, Jan, Dier, Rose, Wanyama, Dembele, Alli, Eriksen, Kane
Subs (the ones that will get game time, anyway): Vorm, Son, Lamela, Winks, Davies, Sissoko, Janssen, N'Koudou, Onomah, Wimmer

When I said 16 players I was thinking mostly of the players that could command a place in the starting XI without an appreciable drop in quality. But we do have 21 players (22, if you add CCV) that could be used. And with the exception of Manure (and perhaps City to an extent), there is no team that has 22 players that could come into the team without a drop in quality. So yes, I think what we have thus far is enough to concentrate on league and CL.

As for the cups, I think we will need to put those aside for another year, unless we get lucky draws like last year. For the next couple of years we must establish ourselves as CL regulars, both for revenues and to increase our stature. So focus on the league is paramount. And if we want to increase our stature further, we must do as well as possible in the CL. If we want to attract the kind of players that will sustain the quality we currently have and fit within our recruiting model (young, up-and-coming talents), we must become a club that is challenging domestically and has a good European showing year in and year out.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Let's see who we have again:

First XI: Lloris, Trippier, Toby, Jan, Dier, Rose, Wanyama, Dembele, Alli, Eriksen, Kane
Subs (the ones that will get game time, anyway): Vorm, Son, Lamela, Winks, Davies, Sissoko, Janssen, N'Koudou, Onomah, Wimmer

When I said 16 players I was thinking mostly of the players that could command a place in the starting XI without an appreciable drop in quality. But we do have 21 players (22, if you add CCV) that could be used.

When I said 18 players I was talking about players who could command a place in that starting XI, too. The first team you listed (although I have my doubts over Trippier), and then a bench able to rotate without a drop in quality. There, there's an issue - between Vorm, Son, Lamela, Winks, Davies, Sissoko, Janssen, N'Koudou, Onomah and Wimmer, I think only Vorm, Son, Lamela and Davies would qualify as players who can be rotated in and out without the team suffering a drop in quality (and Lamela has, of course, been injured for a year). The rest are still mostly unknowns (Janssen, N'Koudou and Sissoko), are coming off a bad year (Wimmer) or are callow youngsters who won't be able to replicate the form of a first-teamer (Onomah, CCV and Winks, although the latter is the furthest along in that group).

And with the exception of Manure (and perhaps City to an extent), there is no team that has 22 players that could come into the team without a drop in quality. So yes, I think what we have thus far is enough to concentrate on league and CL.

I disagree, mate. What we have is what we had last season, minus Walker - we challenged in the league, but fell brutally short in Europe. I don't think it's enough to do otherwise this season, either.

As for the cups, I think we will need to put those aside for another year, unless we get lucky draws like last year. For the next couple of years we must establish ourselves as CL regulars, both for revenues and to increase our stature. So focus on the league is paramount. And if we want to increase our stature further, we must do as well as possible in the CL. If we want to attract the kind of players that will sustain the quality we currently have and fit within our recruiting model (young, up-and-coming talents), we must become a club that is challenging domestically and has a good European showing year in and year out.

Massively, massively disagree (it's the 'finish 4th so we can finish 4th next year' trap, imo), mate - but you know my stance on this already, I suspect. In the end, we can establish ourselves as CL regulars without a trophy to show for it and the players will leave regardless - we will never be able to pay the wages United/City/Chelsea do, but without trophies even the other carrots we could offer them ('you'll keep winning things with us') wouldn't exist. We'd just be a 4th place club with no trophies since 2008 trying to ask our players not to leave but winning nothing to justify such appeals, imo.

 

[Hemant]

There will ALWAYS be fans who think/believe we need a couple of players to be brought in during the summer window. We could win the double and you will always get some fans saying we need a couple of additions otherwise we will " be standing still" " falling behind" etc,etc.

It is the make up of some fans to want, demand new players no matter where we are.

Your argument would carry more weight if we were winning trophies regularly.

 

[AdamB]

Let's see who we have again:

First XI: Lloris, Trippier, Toby, Jan, Dier, Rose, Wanyama, Dembele, Alli, Eriksen, Kane
Subs (the ones that will get game time, anyway): Vorm, Son, Lamela, Winks, Davies, Sissoko, Janssen, N'Koudou, Onomah, Wimmer

When I said 16 players I was thinking mostly of the players that could command a place in the starting XI without an appreciable drop in quality. But we do have 21 players (22, if you add CCV) that could be used.

This highlights our problem well - lack of depth. Take out 3-4 injuries or suspensions which you're always like to have and you're left with a bench of
Sissoko, Janssen, N'Koudou, Onomah, Wimmer....effectively zero options who are remotely proven or who you'd bring on with any expectation of them having an impact

 

[harr1984]

I get the thing about developing youth, I really do and it's great we are doing that. But we are still going to have to add a couple of quality additions per season regardless if we want to compete at the top table year on year. If we just rely internally on our youth as cover/squad players it all gets a bit too comfortable for everyone regardless of quality and it's also good for squad dynamics to have an addition come in. Look at one of the most successful teams in recent years Barcelona - they promote youth and won everything but still made a couple of quality additions a season. No one is saying go spend spend crazy and just sign for the sake of it but do think it's massively naive to just use our encouragement of youth as a reason not to recruit new personnel....

 

[parklane1]

Your argument would carry more weight if we were winning trophies regularly.

Maybe, but i am not wrong about what i said.

 

[braineclipse]

Wrong, i am not complaining about fans wanting players ( as i said in my earlier post ALL fans want new players), what annoys me ( using your wording) is that when we are unable to do so for what ever reasons ( flimflam reports in the papers about us wanting this and that player, money, lack of interest by Poch etc,etc) is that they then start bleating about Levy/Lewis being tight, standing still, going backwards ( i could go on but i am sure you understand).

There is nothing wrong in wanting to improve and see progression ( lets face it anyone who can not see that is what we have been doing for years must be blind). But we have to be realistic ( however hard that must be for some fans) and except that there is still a few clubs above us who have far more resources then we have ( at this moment in time).

Spot on mate.