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What are we missing?

Bedfordspurs said:
Define valid?
If it’s people debating the system… then they maybe should step back until conte leaves. He doesn’t change systems, least of all ones that work in his eyes
If it’s players within the system e.g we need a better rwb, that’s very valid
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Not all kneejerk responses are bad points. Especially when we tend to bury critical comments when we're winning.

And its not like conte has one system, we are no where close to what he was playing with at Chelsea, the closest reference.

Within the system, we've seen slight variations that can make big differences too - such as Son as main striker and Kane feeding him. All that worked so well last season but seems to have stopped now. Worthwhile discussion topics IMO.

I'd expect to see different views and debate them on a forum, more so if its after a defeat. Its how the internet works these days and appreciate that there are many who that can argue or entertain diverse views, kneejerk or not.

The system is dependent on the players and the roles they play.

If we don't have the players who can play the role, it is within reason to expect any competent coach to be able tweak systems to accomodate.

Conte has done it before in the Chelsea game with us. He made a lot of wrong choices vs Arsenal...but I guess we will know better when we see the starting eleven and the systems when we play Emirates Marketing Project away. Same system as Arsenal just better players.
 
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metalgear said:
Not all kneejerk responses are bad points. Especially when we tend to bury critical comments when we're winning.

And its not like conte has one system, we are no where close to what he was playing with at Chelsea, the closest reference.

Within the system, we've seen slight variations that can make big differences too - such as Son as main striker and Kane feeding him. All that worked so well last season but seems to have stopped now. Worthwhile discussion topics IMO.

I'd expect to see different views and debate them on a forum, more so if its after a defeat. Its how the internet works these days and appreciate that there are many who that can argue or entertain diverse views, kneejerk or not.

The system is dependent on the players and the roles they play.

If we don't have the players who can play the role, it is within reason to expect any competent coach to be able tweak systems to accomodate.

Conte has done it before in the Chelsea game with us. He made a lot of wrong choices vs Arsenal...but I guess we will know better when we see the starting eleven and the systems when we play Emirates Marketing Project away. Same system as Arsenal just better players.
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You were literally saying his head had been turned by juve and he'd probably be gone soon.
metalgear said:
Not all kneejerk responses are bad points. Especially when we tend to bury critical comments when we're winning.

And its not like conte has one system, we are no where close to what he was playing with at Chelsea, the closest reference.

Within the system, we've seen slight variations that can make big differences too - such as Son as main striker and Kane feeding him. All that worked so well last season but seems to have stopped now. Worthwhile discussion topics IMO.

I'd expect to see different views and debate them on a forum, more so if its after a defeat. Its how the internet works these days and appreciate that there are many who that can argue or entertain diverse views, kneejerk or not.

The system is dependent on the players and the roles they play.

If we don't have the players who can play the role, it is within reason to expect any competent coach to be able tweak systems to accomodate.

Conte has done it before in the Chelsea game with us. He made a lot of wrong choices vs Arsenal...but I guess we will know better when we see the starting eleven and the systems when we play Emirates Marketing Project away. Same system as Arsenal just better players.
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You think comments like this are rational?

metalgear said:
what a promising start with conte, surprised how the execution has been such a let down.he is a smart guy so maybe his hands are tied.

could be the rumours are true and he is eyeing juventus, short contract situation looks increasingly suspicious, and stubbornly sticking to suboptimal formations, player selection and tactics, while obvious solutions are available, remind of mourinho - who i still think engineered his way out of spurs (perhaps for full compensation) judging by how quick he got his next job.

well i hope levy is decisive and not put mason in charge. nagelsmann looks to be available soon too....
also levy out if kane out if he continue to take freekicks, as if he has no say in an issue as obvious as this. haha
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Conte said it himself in the press conference: it's composure, basically. Our inability to make that final pass to get that one-on-one opportunity hurt us on Saturday, or make rational decisions without bricking the bed like Royal and Lloris... but GHod dammit, they're humans so I get it, mistakes happen. All these brainfarts (the defensive ones look worse than the offensive ones despite similar impact IMO. red cards are a whole other level) need to stop though and there will be less suffering.
 
metalgear said:
Not all kneejerk responses are bad points. Especially when we tend to bury critical comments when we're winning.

And its not like conte has one system, we are no where close to what he was playing with at Chelsea, the closest reference.

Within the system, we've seen slight variations that can make big differences too - such as Son as main striker and Kane feeding him. All that worked so well last season but seems to have stopped now. Worthwhile discussion topics IMO.

I'd expect to see different views and debate them on a forum, more so if its after a defeat. Its how the internet works these days and appreciate that there are many who that can argue or entertain diverse views, kneejerk or not.

The system is dependent on the players and the roles they play.

If we don't have the players who can play the role, it is within reason to expect any competent coach to be able tweak systems to accomodate.

Conte has done it before in the Chelsea game with us. He made a lot of wrong choices vs Arsenal...but I guess we will know better when we see the starting eleven and the systems when we play Emirates Marketing Project away. Same system as Arsenal just better players.
Click to expand...

Tweak systems, sure. We're getting there imo, but we're still short on players being a natural fit for the system. You can say tweak the system, but imo we haven't had 11 players that all fit into the same system in a long time. Compromises and make do solutions become the tweak.

I don't think he made a lot of wrong choices against Arsenal personally. I guess that's where the disagreement is. That was a game we very easily could have gotten and deserved a result if not for the mistake by Lloris and the red card.
 
papaspur said:
Conte said it himself in the press conference: it's composure, basically. Our inability to make that final pass to get that one-on-one opportunity hurt us on Saturday, or make rational decisions without bricking the bed like Royal and Lloris... but GHod dammit, they're humans so I get it, mistakes happen. All these brainfarts (the defensive ones look worse than the offensive ones despite similar impact IMO. red cards are a whole other level) need to stop though and there will be less suffering.
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Final pass... I assume the assisting pass... Has been few and far in between if you discount Son's recent brilliant hat trick. Most were set pieces.

And Kane passing to Son works best, but he had Son deep tracking Saka.

Perisic shouldn't have started, Sess to wear Saka down would have been smarter. Keeps Don fresh too.

Sent from my SM-T865 using Fapatalk
 
metalgear said:
Final pass... I assume the assisting pass... Has been few and far in between if you discount Son's recent brilliant hat trick. Most were set pieces.

And Kane passing to Son works best, but he had Son deep tracking Saka.

Perisic shouldn't have started, Sess to wear Saka down would have been smarter. Keeps Don fresh too.

Sent from my SM-T865 using Fapatalk
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Can you please explain to me why it would've been a good idea to not have Son doing his bit defensively?
Why would it be such a good idea to leave Saka running at Perisic all game or even worse, facing a 2 on 1 situation?
Some players should only attack and some only defend?
 
metalgear said:
Final pass... I assume the assisting pass... Has been few and far in between if you discount Son's recent brilliant hat trick. Most were set pieces.

And Kane passing to Son works best, but he had Son deep tracking Saka.

Perisic shouldn't have started, Sess to wear Saka down would have been smarter. Keeps Don fresh too.

Sent from my SM-T865 using Fapatalk
Click to expand...
I don’t think he tracked saka
At best it was Perisic
I thought saka was poor TBH
 
Bedfordspurs said:
change to what system? He has never intimated he wants to play a different system
It even looks like we have recruited the squad to suit the system he is playing
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That's fine but a system however perfect won't work every game, you need to be able to adjust for different challenges even if it's just a tweak at half time for instance but instead it's the same 11 every game. Maybe the intention is to build it into them with consistent game time but I don't think adjusting formation part way through a game is a bad thing, it's what you need to do to win sometimes.
 
P.D. said:
That's fine but a system however perfect won't work every game, you need to be able to adjust for different challenges even if it's just a tweak at half time for instance but instead it's the same 11 every game. Maybe the intention is to build it into them with consistent game time but I don't think adjusting formation part way through a game is a bad thing, it's what you need to do to win sometimes.
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As per the other thread… I’m just saying how conte operates, not what I want
But… he did change system vs Chelsea when chasing a game. His subs won us the point
In reality he hasn’t had to chase games this season with the options on the bench to do so
 
Bedfordspurs said:
As per the other thread… I’m just saying how conte operates, not what I want
But… he did change system vs Chelsea when chasing a game. His subs won us the point
In reality he hasn’t had to chase games this season with the options on the bench to do so
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I don't think we've been convincing in many games, albeit it's the result that matters we lack some of the swagger from last season. We're moving the ball slower, not as many players moving into space. Maybe it will all just click with more games.
 
P.D. said:
I don't think we've been convincing in many games, albeit it's the result that matters we lack some of the swagger from last season. We're moving the ball slower, not as many players moving into space. Maybe it will all just click with more games.
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Conte does not care one bit for entertainment, just results
He has the results
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Sanchez in the middle instead of Dier.

Walker and Rose were a million times better than our current wing backs at that time as well.

Dembele / Wanyama in the middle - awesome

Think Dele was in there instead of Son a fair bit as well?
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And how did the system operate differently in all aspects to what Conte does?
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Wing backs were better and gave us an actual outlet out wide, Dembele worth 2 players centrally, we pressed from the front better and were a possession based team. Jan and Toby were in their pomp which helped defensively.
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The fact that we never won anything during that era was a joke. Dembele would boss any midfield, we had the best wingback duo in the business, a centre back pairing anyone would be envious of, Eriksen on top of his game and Kane smashing them in everywhere - not to mention Son and Dele. It makes me angry every time I think about it.....
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Wing backs were better and gave us an actual outlet out wide, Dembele worth 2 players centrally, we pressed from the front better and were a possession based team. Jan and Toby were in their pomp which helped defensively.
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So it is purely a player quality thing not anything to do with how the system is utilised? In essence Poch was using the 3-4-3?
 
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