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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Robbo said:
Ok, say we win the EL, Ange somehow stays as manager, and we do some pretty good transfer business in the summer.

What will it take for Ange to win back the doubters and the Ange out crowd next season?

Somehow I have a feeling a few decent cup runs and us being on course to a fourth/fifth place finish with a bit more defensive solidity won't do it.
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For me if all of those things played out he would be back in my good books. I have nothing personal against him, I just think he's too much of an ideologue and hasn't taken stock of the materials he has had available to him. So for all of that to flip around he would have had to have taken stock and made some significant philosophicsl adaptations and that would certainly put him in my good books.

Alas as it stands I don't think he should get another season even if we do win the EL because it's all too predictable as to what will happen and what his approach will be. To even get to next session is have to see significant changes right now and that's just not going to happen.
 
Bullet said:
Ange's position is completely untenable.
We are currently a joke of a team. Sorry to break it to you. We are not serious.
Our defence is wet tissue paper:

29 Dec our defence held out for a massive 6 minutes against the mighty Wolves
4 Jan we held out for a full 5 minutes vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine
19 Jan we held out for a full 12 minutes vs Everton
9 Feb we held out for a full 0 minutes vs Villa
22 Feb Ipswich should have been 2 up in the first 5 minutes
26 Feb we held out for a full 11 minutes vs Emirates Marketing Project
6 Mar we held out for a full 16 minutes vs AZ Alkmaar
10 Apr we held out for a full 5 minutes vs Eintracht Frankfurt
13 Apr we held out for a full 1 minute vs the mighty Wolves AGAIN!
21 Apr we held out for a full 4 minutes vs Forest.

That is 6+5+12+0+?+11+16+5+1+4 = Embarrassing
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Hes got to go, no doubt about it.
 
thfcsteff said:
Even for the many here who don't like him, I ask the following question. Would it really have done the club/us any more harm to have had Munn give a statement saying something to the effect of, "Nobody is satisfied with the results or league positionm least of all Ange and the players, there are significant factors such as injuries, there are several areas of the club which we are reviewing, but we must all back both Ange and the club at this time. Considerations can be taken at the end of the season, until then it is vital that everyone at the club and it's supporters, continue to stay together and focussed."
Or something like that?
I don't think so.
I'll take a wild guess here that Levy is relieved Ange has been the hate punching bag more than him this season, albeit that was in the balance around January, when a statement such as the above would've certainly alleviated some of the pressure building on the manager...

...in the end, this is all a bit like those movies where you see the ending and spend the next 120 minutes getting to how it happened. I feel certain he won't be here, the question is how we got here in the first place...
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The trouble with something like that is that there's a situation where we lost to AZ and now you look like a bit of a fool for committing to Ange until the end of the season, or a fool for saying you would and then sacking him in March. The famous vote of confidence/kiss of death.

That's not to say that I think that way. What you're saying is absolutely the logical thing to do. But the British press don't work on logic. Ange is consistently held up to two comments he made: "we never change"/"it's who we are" (consistently taking out of context) and "I win something in my second year" (a fact until it's not anymore).

Damned it you do, damned it you don't.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Cup runs and to a lesser extent wins often come down to luck at the end of the day. The league is the true measure of where a team is at, as the monotonous grind of fixtures and the playing of everyone home and away rewards consistency, good game and squad management and tactics.

The last manager to win us a trophy was Juande Ramos.

We were very lucky that the three promoted teams to the PL proved to be among the worst in a long long time and that the threshold for being in a genuine relegation dogfight has been lower than normal.

I think it is likely that the club will consider it too much of a risk to keep Ange into next season.

A EL win will allow a mutual parting, rather than a sacking. We could thank Ange for everything he's done, he'd maintain his "always wins a trophy in his second season" and so on and so forth.

However, even if we win the Europa league, while the season overall would be a success, the league campaign has been a disaster and could even be our worst ever performance in the PL
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I don't disagree with any of that, and although I think it would be taking great liberties with the truth, it could be spun that we don't have the squad to compete on multiple fronts so "focused" on the cups.
We went out to Liverpool in the SFs, the form team, lost to villa away in the FA Cup and should we win the EL then the no trophy monkey is off our back and we qualify for CL.
At the beginning of the season nobody seriously expected our squad to compete for the PL our even top 4 and manage decent runs in all the cups.
I can see it being put across that we gambled on the cups, got caught out in the PL with the injuries and freakish form of others but the gamble worked and now it's time for a new chapter.

Considerable massaging of the truth butt it would save a lot of face.
 
tommysvr said:
The trouble with something like that is that there's a situation where we lost to AZ and now you look like a bit of a fool for committing to Ange until the end of the season, or a fool for saying you would and then sacking him in March. The famous vote of confidence/kiss of death.

That's not to say that I think that way. What you're saying is absolutely the logical thing to do. But the British press don't work on logic. Ange is consistently held up to two comments he made: "we never change"/"it's who we are" (consistently taking out of context) and "I win something in my second year" (a fact until it's not anymore).

Damned it you do, damned it you don't.
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Indeed. It makes him a convenient figure when it comes to deciding whether to take action or remain quiet.
 
tommysvr said:
The trouble with something like that is that there's a situation where we lost to AZ and now you look like a bit of a fool for committing to Ange until the end of the season, or a fool for saying you would and then sacking him in March. The famous vote of confidence/kiss of death.

That's not to say that I think that way. What you're saying is absolutely the logical thing to do. But the British press don't work on logic. Ange is consistently held up to two comments he made: "we never change"/"it's who we are" (consistently taking out of context) and "I win something in my second year" (a fact until it's not anymore).

Damned it you do, damned it you don't.
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I think the challenge is that Ange isn't in a position to say the bigger picture things. It's not fair on him to be the one to piece the story together of how the new stadium, the NFL franchise and the F1 karting is all geared towards the significant investment we've made in the playing squad. He will get pelters if he says that we're the 3rd highest net spenders when his team is languishing in the league. The reality is that there is a permanence about what Spurs have and this should be painted by the chief football officer, Munn.

Munn could definitely paint a great picture of the club. He could get inputs from Andy Scoulding who has oversight on all our loans. He could talk about the work he's implemented via Lange using the new recruitment data model. He could also talk about the logical changes that have been made on the fitness / medical side to ensure that we are elite in that area moving forward.

I would also be interested for Munn to share his own philosophy on leadership and some of the things he did in rugby league, athletics and Asian football in prior roles. There is a story to tell there that is relevant to Spurs.

Personally, I think it is OK to leave the elephant in the room conversation for a while longer.
 
Muttley said:
I think the challenge is that Ange isn't in a position to say the bigger picture things. It's not fair on him to be the one to piece the story together of how the new stadium, the NFL franchise and the F1 karting is all geared towards the significant investment we've made in the playing squad. He will get pelters if he says that we're the 3rd highest net spenders when his team is languishing in the league. The reality is that there is a permanence about what Spurs have and this should be painted by the chief football officer, Munn.

Munn could definitely paint a great picture of the club. He could get inputs from Andy Scoulding who has oversight on all our loans. He could talk about the work he's implemented via Lange using the new recruitment data model. He could also talk about the logical changes that have been made on the fitness / medical side to ensure that we are elite in that area moving forward.

I would also be interested for Munn to share his own philosophy on leadership and some of the things he did in rugby league, athletics and Asian football in prior roles. There is a story to tell there that is relevant to Spurs.

Personally, I think it is OK to leave the elephant in the room conversation for a while longer.
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We’re brick on the pitch and 16th in the league. No amount of talking can make up for it and just looks desperate and opens the door to more criticism. I agree with the general principle…but the only thing that’s going to lift the mood of any football club is winning games, not executives talking.
 
tommysvr said:
We’re brick on the pitch and 16th in the league. No amount of talking can make up for it and just looks desperate and opens the door to more criticism. I agree with the general principle…but the only thing that’s going to lift the mood of any football club is winning games, not executives talking.
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Finally I agree on football with you.


Also fcuk off Ange
 
tommysvr said:
We’re brick on the pitch and 16th in the league. No amount of talking can make up for it and just looks desperate and opens the door to more criticism. I agree with the general principle…but the only thing that’s going to lift the mood of any football club is winning games, not executives talking.
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It's a very difficult message. Ange (+players) aren't holding up their side of the bargain.

I do hope fans can see the bigger picture of the transition the club is going through though. I still think some need reminding that it isn't just more of the same.

We will come out of this phase very soon.
 
thfcsteff said:
After the season we've had, after the noise and continual waves of BS which have crashed against our bough, I find it interesting that no-one has considered the fact that Postecoglu probably does not want to stay here much longer. In fact, I think the whole farce is an increasingly poor statement on how we operate. I'd have much more respect for the club in this regard had they bothered to stage ANY sort of protective mechanism/closed ranks around Postecoglu when the brick was really hitting the fan in January. Instead they continued to leave him out there taking the beating, occasionally dribbling a 'it looks like there is no move to replace him' via some such media source.

Even for the many here who don't like him, I ask the following question. Would it really have done the club/us any more harm to have had Munn give a statement saying something to the effect of, "Nobody is satisfied with the results or league positionm least of all Ange and the players, there are significant factors such as injuries, there are several areas of the club which we are reviewing, but we must all back both Ange and the club at this time. Considerations can be taken at the end of the season, until then it is vital that everyone at the club and it's supporters, continue to stay together and focussed."
Or something like that?
I don't think so.
I'll take a wild guess here that Levy is relieved Ange has been the hate punching bag more than him this season, albeit that was in the balance around January, when a statement such as the above would've certainly alleviated some of the pressure building on the manager...

...in the end, this is all a bit like those movies where you see the ending and spend the next 120 minutes getting to how it happened. I feel certain he won't be here, the question is how we got here in the first place...
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Do you really think anyone would care what Munn says? It would be forgotten about in less than 5 mins.
The only thing that would stop speculation and Ange getting flak is for him to improve results.
 
Muttley said:
It's a very difficult message. Ange (+players) aren't holding up their side of the bargain.

I do hope fans can see the bigger picture of the transition the club is going through though. I still think some need reminding that it isn't just more of the same.

We will come out of this phase very soon.
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Not being ignorant but what do you expect that will happen? We are in a perpetual cycle of more of the same in varying degrees.

Until our owners change or change their ways of operation, the direction from the top will dictate exactly what happens. We may get lucky but the usual story is going to perpetuate itself. Played out again with different characters.
 
DubSpur said:
Do you really think anyone would care what Munn says? It would be forgotten about in less than 5 mins.
The only thing that would stop speculation and Ange getting flak is for him to improve results.
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We'll never know because the club stayed silent, save for one middling interview with Lange, who has the charisma of a cod.

BTW, I am not talking about 'stopping speculation' I am talking about standing behind a teammate regardless of whether their performance has been poor for a spell or not. If you're not prepared to do that then you move them on. Keeping them and watching them flounder like a fish out of water seems like a weird plaice to go (apologies, I got carried away on fish puns...I'll roe them back now)...
 
thfcsteff said:
We'll never know because the club stayed silent, save for one middling interview with Lange, who has the charisma of a cod.

BTW, I am not talking about 'stopping speculation' I am talking about standing behind a teammate regardless of whether their performance has been poor for a spell or not. If you're not prepared to do that then you move them on. Keeping them and watching them flounder like a fish out of water seems like a weird plaice to go (apologies, I got carried away on fish puns...I'll roe them back now)...
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What if the manager does not want this? It could just increase the pressure, however often do you see a CEO coming out to defend a manager/run of form - it will just be seen as the dreaded vote of confidence
 
thfcsteff said:
We'll never know because the club stayed silent, save for one middling interview with Lange, who has the charisma of a cod.

BTW, I am not talking about 'stopping speculation' I am talking about standing behind a teammate regardless of whether their performance has been poor for a spell or not. If you're not prepared to do that then you move them on. Keeping them and watching them flounder like a fish out of water seems like a weird plaice to go (apologies, I got carried away on fish puns...I'll roe them back now)...
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can you think of an example of when a more senior staff member has done such thing for a manager at another club?
 
Legohamster said:
What if the manager does not want this? It could just increase the pressure, however often do you see a CEO coming out to defend a manager/run of form - it will just be seen as the dreaded vote of confidence
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Yes, and I accept that perhaps Ange might've sent gruff 'leave it on me' signals. However upper management has a remit to protect the club. If that included a little more proactivity in refreshing the 'project goals' then so be it. There are many creative ways. How about a piece on the future stars of Spurs, with Lange and Munn reiterating what we're apparently trying to do here?
 
Baleforce said:
I was just hoping to see a similar event for comparison, and to see what happened after the event.
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Truthfully, the closest I think we've seen to our situation is Ten Haag and Man Utd. Perhaps Arsenal and how they used their All Or Nothing spot to advertise what the club was doing amidst tough runs for Arteta in terms of fan base and abuse towards ownership. That was pretty masterful, and between Kroenke Jr and Edu, they did a good job supporting the project they have with him versus not making it look like a salvage job. Here's a clip starring the man we have now hired also showing how his worth could well be enjoyed by us in the future...
 
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