Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[Raziel]

He had us close to top 5 until the injuries got ridiculous this season. We had some poor performances and results, but mostly the issue was consistency.

If you've decided that he's useless there's really no point in discussion, we just see things very differently. The only thing that will change either of our minds will be results and performances over time. Again back to the point that looking at an individual game for changes in opinions is rather futile.

Ange's general results have not been good enough, with one very interesting exception

Previous good Spurs sides have been able to win against bottom sides, just not pull it off against the best consistently (maybe one of the reasons Trophies have eluded us?), Ange has shown the ceiling is potentially higher.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Ange's general results have not been good enough, with one very interesting exception

Previous good Spurs sides have been able to win against bottom sides, just not pull it off against the best consistently (maybe one of the reasons Trophies have eluded us?), Ange has shown the ceiling is potentially higher.

Common theme
The better teams attack us
The lesser sides park up
But when you lack variety in attack teams can park up and counter

 

[Raziel]

Common theme
The better teams attack us
The lesser sides park up
But when you lack variety in attack teams can park up and counter

There would be an argument that it's easier to adjust for poorer teams than to figure out how to match better teams.

If we can sort it out against bottom teams, our league position would look very different.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Common theme
The better teams attack us
The lesser sides park up
But when you lack variety in attack teams can park up and counter

Hopefully he doesn’t prove to be another cup manager and Postecoglou can start picking up 3 points against those top sides soon… it’s funny how no matter who manages Spurs we remain €iteh’s bogey side, as much as €havski are ours

Liverpool 3-6 ?-?
ARSEnal 0-1 ?-?
Forest ?-? 0-1
€helsea 3-4 ?-?
Barcodes 1-2 , 1-2
Man €iteh ?-? 3-0
Bournemouth ?-? 0-1
Aston Villa 4-1 ?-?
Fulham ?-? 1-1
Brighton ?-? 2-3
Brentford 3-1 ?-?
ManUre ?-? 3-0
Wet Spam 4-1 ?-?
Palace ?-? 0-1
Everton 4-0 ?-?
Wolves 2-2 ?-?
Ipswich 1-2 ?-?
Leicester ?-? 1-1
So’ton ?-? 5-0

 

[Robspur12]

Ange's general results have not been good enough, with one very interesting exception

Previous good Spurs sides have been able to win against bottom sides, just not pull it off against the best consistently (maybe one of the reasons Trophies have eluded us?), Ange has shown the ceiling is potentially higher.

The "big 6" Seems like a meaningless stat this season. We've lost to Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Forest, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Bournemouth. Man Utd and City can't be compared to previous seasons. I think it's completely misleading to say Ange has a good record "against the best."

 

[tommysvr]

It’s the sun so I feel a bit sick sharing it, but this is a good breakdown on some of what Ange does.

 

[thfcsteff]

There would be an argument that it's easier to adjust for poorer teams than to figure out how to match better teams.

If we can sort it out against bottom teams, our league position would look very different.

I genuinely believe that if we'd been able to pl;ay something of a settled side with a consistent defense and an attack which can be rotated via the bench, we'd have picked off many of the games against lower teams which we didn't. Brighton has been the one exception as I genuinely believe they waltzed out there second-half and thought they could have a stroll.

It's been interesting watching the Kinsky/Porro/Dragusin/Gray/Spence combination. Obviously beither of our first-choice Cbs available, but right now, I feel more comfortable with them as a collective than I would if Romero was back. Romero is obviously a superior CB, but Gray has enormous intelligence and maturity for his years. Let's see if I'm still saying that this time tomorrow, albeit I think we have an excellent chance to make a statement...I've gone a bit off topic here LOL!

 

[braineclipse]

There would be an argument that it's easier to adjust for poorer teams than to figure out how to match better teams.

If we can sort it out against bottom teams, our league position would look very different.

Breaking down well organised hard working low block teams with consistency is one of the hardest things in football imo.

It's also one of those areas where our lack of players with different profiles and imbalances in the squad has hurt us the most.

I think good things will come in that regard under Ange. We've seen it in spells before, but too often seen us struggle. A couple more players in with real quality on the ball and players back from injuries will help a lot imo.

Us already being at a level against the best teams that on our day we can beat anyone is very good. That's another of the more difficult things in football.

 

[veryoldspur]

Were there many of our managers over the last 30 years that you did like?

Yep, especially Harry and Poch.

 

[veryoldspur]

He had us close to top 5 until the injuries got ridiculous this season. We had some poor performances and results, but mostly the issue was consistency.

If you've decided that he's useless there's really no point in discussion, we just see things very differently. The only thing that will change either of our minds will be results and performances over time. Again back to the point that looking at an individual game for changes in opinions is rather futile.

Tonight we are likely to lose to that lot up the road, and tomorrow Utd will almost certainly beat Southampton. That means we drop to 14th, so I wonder how far down we have to go before people wake up and smell the coffee

 

[braineclipse]

I genuinely believe that if we'd been able to pl;ay something of a settled side with a consistent defense and an attack which can be rotated via the bench, we'd have picked off many of the games against lower teams which we didn't. Brighton has been the one exception as I genuinely believe they waltzed out there second-half and thought they could have a stroll.

It's been interesting watching the Kinsky/Porro/Dragusin/Gray/Spence combination. Obviously beither of our first-choice Cbs available, but right now, I feel more comfortable with them as a collective than I would if Romero was back. Romero is obviously a superior CB, but Gray has enormous intelligence and maturity for his years. Let's see if I'm still saying that this time tomorrow, albeit I think we have an excellent chance to make a statement...I've gone a bit off topic here LOL!

Think you're missing one thing Steff...

We've imo seen how important Romero is for us as a ball playing CB. We've now also seen how good and important Gray can be for us as a ball playing CB. We've seen how much good a goalkeeper with real quality with the ball can do for us.

So why not have all three?

Having one quality ball playing CB is imo necessary, but the obvious best thing is to have two (like we did with the Vertonghen and Alderweireld), and a keeper that's quality on the ball.

This post is obviously a bit over the top in some ways. In reality I think Romero and VdV are clear first choices and Vicario probably comes back in when fit (though Kinsky will hopefully give him real competition at some point, sooner or later).

 

[braineclipse]

Tonight we are likely to lose to that lot up the road, and tomorrow Utd will almost certainly beat Southampton. That means we drop to 14th, so I wonder how far down we have to go before people wake up and smell the coffee

Thanks for making it even clearer than it already was that on this topic there really isn't any point in us discussing this.

 

[thfcsteff]

Tonight we are likely to lose to that lot up the road, and tomorrow Utd will almost certainly beat Southampton. That means we drop to 14th, so I wonder how far down we have to go before people wake up and smell the coffee

You don't happen to have the winning lottery numbers for this week do you? PM me and let's split the winnings.

 

[thfcsteff]

Think you're missing one thing Steff...

We've imo seen how important Romero is for us as a ball playing CB. We've now also seen how good and important Gray can be for us as a ball playing CB. We've seen how much good a goalkeeper with real quality with the ball can do for us.

So why not have all three?

Having one quality ball playing CB is imo necessary, but the obvious best thing is to have two (like we did with the Vertonghen and Alderweireld), and a keeper that's quality on the ball.

This post is obviously a bit over the top in some ways. In reality I think Romero and VdV are clear first choices and Vicario probably comes back in when fit (though Kinsky will hopefully give him real competition at some point, sooner or later).

Absolutely.
Currently (and most likely because we've seen him consistently for some time now) I trust Gray more than Romero in terms of decision making and passing. I think it is clear that Romero is -when playing and in the zone- clearly one of the best CBs in Europe, however I haven't really seen that player this season at all. Vuskovic is going to start asking big questions come the summer. I think he is probably a season away, but truthfully how can we really tell? I still feel Christian will leave in the summer if the right bid comes in. At one time I'd have been very scared, not as much anymore...important to note, I still think Gray's best position is midfield of course BUT he has set a bar at CB for himself hasn't he!

 

[braineclipse]

Absolutely.
Currently (and most likely because we've seen him consistently for some time now) I trust Gray more than Romero in terms of decision making and passing. I think it is clear that Romero is -when playing and in the zone- clearly one of the best CBs in Europe, however I haven't really seen that player this season at all. Vuskovic is going to start asking big questions come the summer. I think he is probably a season away, but truthfully how can we really tell? I still feel Christian will leave in the summer if the right bid comes in. At one time I'd have been very scared, not as much anymore...important to note, I still think Gray's best position is midfield of course BUT he has set a bar at CB for himself hasn't he!

Agreed. What is clear is that we actually have real options. Davies too did well imo.

Think Romero would have to be replaced if he leaves personally, and like you I don't think that seems unlikely at least.

 

[Muttley]

Absolutely.
Currently (and most likely because we've seen him consistently for some time now) I trust Gray more than Romero in terms of decision making and passing. I think it is clear that Romero is -when playing and in the zone- clearly one of the best CBs in Europe, however I haven't really seen that player this season at all. Vuskovic is going to start asking big questions come the summer. I think he is probably a season away, but truthfully how can we really tell? I still feel Christian will leave in the summer if the right bid comes in. At one time I'd have been very scared, not as much anymore...important to note, I still think Gray's best position is midfield of course BUT he has set a bar at CB for himself hasn't he!

Agreed. What is clear is that we actually have real options. Davies too did well imo.

Think Romero would have to be replaced if he leaves personally, and like you I don't think that seems unlikely at least.

I actually think you're both conveniently forgetting all those immense tackles and headers that Dragusin has won in these last 2 months. It's OK talking about how we want to play and who is most suited. At centre half, we often don't get that choice as it's about the opposition tactics. I would go as far as saying that without Dragusin's physical and aerial presence, we may have been a goal down in the FA cup, or even out.

Moving forward, I could see a scenario where the Gray-VDV partnership is one of our rotation combinations for certain games whereas the Dragusin-VDV partnership works in others. If we need to rotate VDV, it's not quite as easy as RCB. They can all do a job, as Gray has proved.

I'm happy for Davies to leave at this point. We have Phillips putting in a decent run at Stoke, and everyone loves Vuskovic. I called it with Davies as well. He went from minimal playing time to having to play every game for club and country. He was even captain for Wales. He broke down like I expected him to, like he has so many times before. 4 hammies in 4 seasons. His body stood up for part of last season, but he was missing when we needed him this season unfortunately. He also needs to playing regularly if he has hopes of being in the summer 2026 international tournaments.

 

[Raziel]

Absolutely.
Currently (and most likely because we've seen him consistently for some time now) I trust Gray more than Romero in terms of decision making and passing. I think it is clear that Romero is -when playing and in the zone- clearly one of the best CBs in Europe, however I haven't really seen that player this season at all. Vuskovic is going to start asking big questions come the summer. I think he is probably a season away, but truthfully how can we really tell? I still feel Christian will leave in the summer if the right bid comes in. At one time I'd have been very scared, not as much anymore...important to note, I still think Gray's best position is midfield of course BUT he has set a bar at CB for himself hasn't he!

different kinds of players, what's interesting I actually think our CB's all are very different now

- Romero is hugely underrated in my opinion, I think he needs to be managed but at his best he steps out and kills plays long before they become a threat, and is good with his feet, starting the play out back (and no forward wants to play against him)
- Dragusin is almost a classic English CB, good in air, physical
- VDV is the recovery pace, get you out of jail card
- Gray is the calm one, can also progress the ball quite well

I'd like to see Vuskovich join and Ange actually rotate, or at least give the cup sides to a pair vs. league, and VDV is someone we should probably rest against certain opposition to manage his hamstrings

All in all, a long cry from Dier & Sanchez

 

[thfcsteff]

I actually think you're both conveniently forgetting all those immense tackles and headers that Dragusin has won in these last 2 months. It's OK talking about how we want to play and who is most suited. At centre half, we often don't get that choice as it's about the opposition tactics. I would go as far as saying that without Dragusin's physical and aerial presence, we may have been a goal down in the FA cup, or even out.

Moving forward, I could see a scenario where the Gray-VDV partnership is one of our rotation combinations for certain games whereas the Dragusin-VDV partnership works in others. If we need to rotate VDV, it's not quite as easy as RCB. They can all do a job, as Gray has proved.

I'm happy for Davies to leave at this point. We have Phillips putting in a decent run at Stoke, and everyone loves Vuskovic. I called it with Davies as well. He went from minimal playing time to having to play every game for club and country. He was even captain for Wales. He broke down like I expected him to, like he has so many times before. 4 hammies in 4 seasons. His body stood up for part of last season, but he was missing when we needed him this season unfortunately. He also needs to playing regularly if he has hopes of being in the summer 2026 international tournaments.

I am a fan of Dragusin. He is more of a 'box' defender, but I am personally a big fan if only for the way he gives everything. I agree with your thoughts in bold mate.

 

[SteveAWOL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1879664835555700791

 

[90291Spur]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1879664835555700791

Hoooooold on. We try and play out from the back, which is what we do (mate) pretty much all season, but that's not how you set us up? Also, did Conte and You call you to remind you to say that's not how you set the team up? And hold on, mate, hoping your 18 year olds are hurting when they weren't the issue? Ange, have a beer, mate, throw a shrimp on the barby and take a hard look at yourself.