Lemonade Money
Les Medley
GHod help us!
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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo
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Grays_1890
Chris Jones
I know, unfortunately its the way its going now. Sports agencies are looking at that kind of thing for organisations all the time now to gauge the water
All business does, it's sentiment analysis. It's an input but it wouldn't be the main reason the club makes a decision
Levy has shown an ability to make unpopular and ruthless decisions (regardless of if you agree on the right/wrong of them), for me, it's much better to make the call than do the United example of having dead men walking like OGS & ETH for literal years.
Re Ange, said it before, I think the goals/timelines/metrics of the club has shifted since the Poch era
- Don't think the top 4 or bust is as much a factor anymore, with the bigger stadium, additional revenue streams, CL is important but maybe not as much get top 4 or out
- Post Jose/Conte, we have seemed (just outside look) to settled back into a proper multi-year view of improving the on field results (football structure, return to investing in the Gray, Bergvall types as well as the pipeline of talent like Vuskovich for future years)
- I don't think you build a team with Udogie, Dragusin, VDV, Sarr, Gray, Johnson, Bergvall, Wilson, Moore and expect to push the top 3/4 sides in the country this year
My point, I think Ange will be ok this year as long as the wheels don't completely come off
- Think we need to get back into Europe (so 5th/6th)
- Think we need to do better in the cups (will be an ask, especially if we lose to City tomorrow)
- Some progress in playing needs to be made (concede less, Solanke/Richi producing, find midfield balance)
Do that, get to summer, get some more investment (another $60M type investment), evaluate the youth again, go for it.
Someone else mentioned it early, if at this time next season we are struggling, then I think Ange has a problem
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
No of course not.
I was just saying as well that there was a number of Poch out's everywhere, if Levy did or did not take notice who know, but there certainly were people becoming disgruntled.
Muttley
Ben Thatcher
Love your post.
On one of your points, I think there is still the question mark over Levy though. At the moment I'm really trying to believe that he really is letting Scott Munn run football operations. That is budgetary control and Scott is the one making these tough hiring and firing decisions. Scott is the one working with the 1st managers to get them what they need and set the strategic direction on the player side with Ange.
At this point, Levy has moved into a less tactical box than he's had for his entire tenure at the club. It is because he himself saw the shortcomings of his many decisions on football. So as a great leader, he did something about it and implemented a new model that protected his company from these shortcomings. That doesn't mean to say he won't have the C-level reviews on all matters beneath him in every area of his business, and share an opinion once in a while. He'll still sign the big cheques
We now get to see whether what I explain really is the model that is actually happening, or whether he is still too involved. I don't want him making any unpopular or ruthless decisions on football operations anymore. He has such a bad track record in that area. We're not a £100m revenue business anymore.
Love your post.
On one of your points, I think there is still the question mark over Levy though. At the moment I'm really trying to believe that he really is letting Scott Munn run football operations. That is budgetary control and Scott is the one making these tough hiring and firing decisions. Scott is the one working with the 1st managers to get them what they need and set the strategic direction on the player side with Ange.
At this point, Levy has moved into a less tactical box than he's had for his entire tenure at the club. It is because he himself saw the shortcomings of his many decisions on football. So as a great leader, he did something about it and implemented a new model that protected his company from these shortcomings. That doesn't mean to say he won't have the C-level reviews on all matters beneath him in every area of his business, and share an opinion once in a while. He'll still sign the big cheques
We now get to see whether what I explain really is the model that is actually happening, or whether he is still too involved. I don't want him making any unpopular or ruthless decisions on football operations anymore. He has such a bad track record in that area. We're not a £100m revenue business anymore.
I think it's also just the scale of the business
- The club that made 100M/yr is long gone, the non football side of business, development of the global brand, all requires a much bigger team to run, needs specialist people to focus on specific areas.
I suspect Munn runs everything football, the piece Levy will have a continued huge input on is expectations, if we are budgeting the company (FWIW I don't think we are) on CL revenue, then that passes down as a goal/measurement of success to the manager via Munn.
As I said, outside signs seem to indicate we have settled into a slightly more multi-year view
Mikey10
Jimmy Neighbour
I think it was this week’s Last Word on Spurs podcast (although I’ve listened to a few over the past couple of days, so I may be wrong!) which was discussing that very few successful businesses have the same person in charge for 20+ years. Change at the top is often necessary to ensure continuing success.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
I think it’s more likely he’s waiting for Pep to walk away which isn’t out of the question as his contract expires next summer. Arsenal and Liverpool would be best placed to capitalise if Emirates Marketing Project don’t get the next managerial appointment right. They’ve managed to win leagues even with Mancini and Pellegrini but losing a larger than life figurehead like Pep surely will hurt them.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
The club and Munn have said repeatedly that he runs the football side
Actually I'd completely disagree
- Churn at top leads to a capitalistic short term view point about satisfying shareholders, it's why Private Equity investment is a plague, it's why many previously successful businesses suddenly crash and burn (take a look at South West Airlines case study, extremely successful for >30 years under same leadership, new CEO walks in, focus now on shareholders, so instead of investing in infrastructure they basically spend all the money on stock buy backs and in 10 years the infrastructure falls apart and basically costs them billions and destroys their reputation and goodwill with customers)
- Warren Buffet has been in charge of his company for what? 50 years, it's arguably one of the most successful companies of all time
- Very few PLC companies may keep same CEO/C-Level for long periods (I know, it's the space I work in), but literally most entrepreneurial/start up businesses do (and can be amazingly successful) , most of Tech? (Zuckerberg is still major shareholder in Facebook)
The challenge for most people is understanding Spurs is both the success story of the last 2 decades (financially, global brand, infrastructure, even in perspective of challenging for things) and the failure (1 trophy isn't a good enough return). Caveats, context, lots of nuance, but both things are true.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
This really resonates with me and how I'm currently thinking about where we are. Of course tactics, player quality, player selection and subs are important. We probably need more transfer businesses in the next couple of windows too.
But maturity, leadership, how we respond in difficult moments. That's what's most important right now and improving that takes time.
Very happy to see Ange speak, seemingly honestly, about this. If this mirrors his approach and viewpoint behind the scenes too I'm very happy with that.
Glenda's Legs
Paul Walsh
Is he not also calling out the likes of Son, Maddison and Romero, when he talks about lacking leadership? ( Or perhaps challenging them to show that leadership would be a better way to phrase it).
Would improved leadership have helped us play around Palace's press or be more creative in the final third v Palace?
V Leicester & Saudi Sportswashing Machine when our heads dropped after conceding I can see the point but I fear he's looking in the wrong place if he thinks that was the problem on Sunday tbh
V Leicester & Saudi Sportswashing Machine when our heads dropped after conceding I can see the point but I fear he's looking in the wrong place if he thinks that was the problem on Sunday tbh
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Not everyone is a leader through age though (I get they are the captain trio) but I don't think Captains in todays game/age means leader on the pitch. I think we touched on it on here before, I don't see Romero as a leader, he plays the game hard but he is pretty insular emotion wise from the looks of the outside.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
In a way, yes. Challenging is probably a kinder way of phrasing at least. I think that's also fine/good.
I'm happy to ride the bumps, and enjoy watching this squad grow. Bar an absolute car crash I want to see how the rest of season 2 and 3 goes before making any definitive decisions because in case any one needs reminding there is no quick fix to get a club like ours to the promised land - we tried it, it doesn't work.....
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Interesting. I think he's very much looking in the right place. We obviously see this very differently.
Imo we know that when we're on our game playing through a high press is one of our biggest strengths. There have been games/periods where one of the worst tactical decisions opponents could make would be a high press because we've been really good at playing through it.
Imo we lost our composure, got rushed and flustered against Palace. Didn't play anywhere near our best in terms of playing through their press.
For me leadership and maturity is very much what is needed in this kind of situation. Get back that composure, look for and find solutions to play through their press. Play our buildup game with confidence and belief. That's what good experienced/mature teams/players do when in a situation where they get flustered. With us it seems to last and last, we don't get out of that rut.
We've seen in before in phases of games (not almost all of it as against Palace). Momentum switches, we struggle to get out, get flustered and sloppy. Usually takes half time, a goal or the opponents tiring to change. We have to find ways to get back closer to playing at our best, faster, more often. Leadership and maturity seems key to me.
Muttley
Ben Thatcher
Here's a question.
How do we feel Ange's tactical system works against a high press 3-5-2 like we saw at the weekend?
I'm having some doubts. Whoscored stats on touches by our wide players sort of proved that they've been doubled up (e.g. Guehi/Mitchell) and negated. Bissouma was swamped and we were repeatedly done on the outside with our narrow full-backs.
Just gets you wondering whether the Ange system is designed to disrupt and dismantle 4-x-x system and he hasn't thought it through well enough for the 3-x-x systems.
Just a thought.
How do we feel Ange's tactical system works against a high press 3-5-2 like we saw at the weekend?
I'm having some doubts. Whoscored stats on touches by our wide players sort of proved that they've been doubled up (e.g. Guehi/Mitchell) and negated. Bissouma was swamped and we were repeatedly done on the outside with our narrow full-backs.
Just gets you wondering whether the Ange system is designed to disrupt and dismantle 4-x-x system and he hasn't thought it through well enough for the 3-x-x systems.
Just a thought.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
With most high pressing teams I think it's more about the pressing shape (and intensity/aggression) than the formation as such. Tough often probably some difference between a 3-x-x system and a 4-x-x system?
Palace pushed very high up and pressed our players essentially to our touchline if given the opportunity. Not sure what their pressing shape was when they did that?
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
I think it might also be fair to ask: how much is this 'lack of maturity' down to he himself having to learn about the competitiveness of the PL and having to learn and develop his own coaching strategies etc?
This is, after all, the highest level of domestic league he has managed in...