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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Bedfordspurs said:
Yep
And I’m glad we have the same defensive record as city and Chelsea because that’s the benchmark, right?
We have a better defensive record than Brighton and Villa who also sit above us
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All four of those teams have lost less games than us.
I'd suspect most of them have more clean sheets too.

I'd certainly expect than since the beginning of last season they all have more league clean sheets than us up to this point as well...so....
 
harr1984 said:
Right, so a handful of games out of how many when implementing a completely new philosophy? We ended up conceding same amount of goals as Villa that season, it's overexaggerated IMO....
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They were the brickshows. I think if you look big picture, the number of clean sheets we keep is very low, the number of low scoring games we are involved in is very low. You could pick out things in a lot of games...it's not just about the thrashings.

For instance, we beat Everton 2-1 at home last season. In the last 5 mins, with a one goal lead, we had Porro and Udogie on the edge of their box. It directly led to two chances for Everton one of which we were very lucky didn't go in from Danjuma (bounced down on the line).

At a level where the difference between success and failure is very fine margins, it isn't just about the hammerings.
 
harr1984 said:
Right, so a handful of games out of how many when implementing a completely new philosophy? We ended up conceding same amount of goals as Villa that season, it's overexaggerated IMO....
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I think this is where the eye test comes key and trumps whatever we want to do with stats...how many games in the last year have we kept a clean sheet and looked relatively comfortable doing so, i.e. we or any neutral football fans cannot look at said clean sheet and say "wow, how did the opposition not score that" etc?

I can hardly think of any, save for maybe Everton this season and Aston Villa away and Sheff utd away last season. I'm not going to include Old Trafford due to the ten men as for me i'd rather just fully on a game where we mostly have even number of players
 
glorygloryeze said:
I think this is where the eye test comes key and trumps whatever we want to do with stats...how many games in the last year have we kept a clean sheet and looked relatively comfortable doing so, i.e. we or any neutral football fans cannot look at said clean sheet and say "wow, how did the opposition not score that" etc?

I can hardly think of any, save for maybe Everton this season and Aston Villa away and Sheff utd away last season. I'm not going to include Old Trafford due to the ten men as for me i'd rather just fully on a game where we mostly have even number of players
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TBF if you watch a collective of teams I don't see any that do that bar Arsenal actually and maybe City. Liverpool looked in a few games I saw you could get at them, they had the benefit in those games for having absolute killers in attack.

Every team has their moment in games, thats just the nature, I have seen us concede all manor of chances and goals in the last 20+ years, Ange has not all of a sudden invented Spurs or footballing frailties
 
DeanoAustin said:
They were the brickshows. I think if you look big picture, the number of clean sheets we keep is very low, the number of low scoring games we are involved in is very low. You could pick out things in a lot of games...it's not just about the thrashings.

For instance, we beat Everton 2-1 at home last season. In the last 5 mins, with a one goal lead, we had Porro and Udogie on the edge of their box. It directly led to two chances for Everton one of which we were very lucky didn't go in from Danjuma (bounced down on the line).

At a level where the difference between success and failure is very fine margins, it isn't just about the hammerings.
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That's the point of a league table, the ifs and could haves should haves even out over the season....
 
glorygloryeze said:
I think this is where the eye test comes key and trumps whatever we want to do with stats...how many games in the last year have we kept a clean sheet and looked relatively comfortable doing so, i.e. we or any neutral football fans cannot look at said clean sheet and say "wow, how did the opposition not score that" etc?

I can hardly think of any, save for maybe Everton this season and Aston Villa away and Sheff utd away last season. I'm not going to include Old Trafford due to the ten men as for me i'd rather just fully on a game where we mostly have even number of players
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I never said we look completely water tight, who on earth is going to expect us to be that when we set out the way we do? The point is, Anges ethos means the quality of our chances created is frequently better than the quality of chances conceded. It's very noticeable and funny how the negative posters on here claim in matches this season we have looked pretty poor in attack at the same time complaining our defending is horrendous, yet by all metrics our expected goals constantly betters our expected goals conceded - something doesn't quite add up......
 
DeanoAustin said:
Does he drop Romero? He's been playing well generally but making a lot of mistakes that have cost us goals. It'd be a big call to drop arguably our most talented and sought after defender. How, as manager, does he stop the player from making those mistakes?

Udogie has been getting a lot of stick (some of it harsh) but he's been well below his best. Does he persevere with him?

Porro, for me, still has work to do on the basics of defending even though he has improved since Ange arrived. When he shows the attacker the line, he's getting too close repeatedly to the attacker and it leaves him open to being skinned.

All of the above are the responsibility of the manager IMO. There are things he can do.
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It’s his call
And they are big calls to make
 
harr1984 said:
I never said we look completely water tight, who on earth is going to expect us to be that when we set out the way we do? The point is, Anges ethos means the quality of our chances created is frequently better than the quality of chances conceded. It's very noticeable and funny how the negative posters on here claim in matches this season we have looked pretty poor in attack at the same time complaining our defending is horrendous, yet by all metrics our expected goals constantly betters our expected goals conceded - something doesn't quite add up......
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I actually think the way we play (high line, high press) means that the number chances that we create are usually more than the chances we conceded. I'm not altogether sure that the quality we create is always better quality than the ones we concede...
 
glorygloryeze said:
All four of those teams have lost less games than us.
I'd suspect most of them have more clean sheets too.

I'd certainly expect than since the beginning of last season they all have more league clean sheets than us up to this point as well...so....
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So we’re back to bringing last season into play
 
glorygloryeze said:
Of course, when you judge a manager or the direction of travel you look at a broad timeframe, and tbh you'd want to anyway if yoiu wanted to puit a positive spin on things...
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Not really
I’m looking at this season as Ange and more of his own players and less excuses
It’s why I’ve said 10 games
But that can or can’t include cup game depending on your views of course
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Not really
I’m looking at this season as Ange and more of his own players and less excuses
It’s why I’ve said 10 games
But that can or can’t include cup game depending on your views of course
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I guess we'll see...this weekend would be a welcome start for me to show things can/will change...

Then after that: Palace away, Villa at home then Ipswich at home before the next international break.
We really need to be picking up 10 points minimum from that run. I'd also think 2 clean sheets too
 
glorygloryeze said:
I guess we'll see...this weekend would be a welcome start for me to show things can/will change...

Then after that: Palace away, Villa at home then Ipswich at home before the next international break.
We really need to be picking up 10 points minimum from that run. I'd also think 2 clean sheets too
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Don’t care about clean sheets if we win
Hasn’t hurt city
 
DeanoAustin said:
Does he drop Romero? He's been playing well generally but making a lot of mistakes that have cost us goals. It'd be a big call to drop arguably our most talented and sought after defender. How, as manager, does he stop the player from making those mistakes?

Udogie has been getting a lot of stick (some of it harsh) but he's been well below his best. Does he persevere with him?

Porro, for me, still has work to do on the basics of defending even though he has improved since Ange arrived. When he shows the attacker the line, he's getting too close repeatedly to the attacker and it leaves him open to being skinned.

All of the above are the responsibility of the manager IMO. There are things he can do.
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Fantastic post. Manager's need to improve players and get them to their optimum. Let's hope Ange can with these 3.

As an example, we cannot keep watching Udogie do his best impression of Mr Blobby and bundling into players unnecessarily. We lose our team momentum when he does it as the oppo slow everything down. It often leads to us having to defend a set piece, not our strength. When I think back, Walker went through this phase and Poch coached it out of him. We need the same with Uodgie, and when that second LB turns up at the club I have a feeling Destiny will focus on keeping that shirt.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Don’t care about clean sheets if we win
Hasn’t hurt city
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Do you reckon?

If City were 3-0 up and conceded a consolation, I think Pep would be mad. City were still in second in the league for clean sheets last season.

I really do want Spurs to love clean sheets more than they seem to currently do from the outside. My guess is that all goals get analysed and there are feedback mechanisms with our players on the inside. Surely Ange wants that stat to turn back in our favour?
 
harr1984 said:
I never said we look completely water tight, who on earth is going to expect us to be that when we set out the way we do? The point is, Anges ethos means the quality of our chances created is frequently better than the quality of chances conceded. It's very noticeable and funny how the negative posters on here claim in matches this season we have looked pretty poor in attack at the same time complaining our defending is horrendous, yet by all metrics our expected goals constantly betters our expected goals conceded - something doesn't quite add up......
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I don't think the quality of chances we create is better than the quality of chances conceded. We create opportunities where the final ball or run isn't good enough but give up 1v1's where the striker has time and space. Which is where the eye test comes in, if we have all the ball, huff and puff but give up 2 clear cut chances the stats will say one thing but my nervous system will say something completely different.
 
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