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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Bullet said:
I can't believe Udogie's defending against Bowen, for the Spam goal today.
The ball is dropping and Udogie doesn't even try to get goal side, he just goes wrong side and seems surprised when Bowen is through to cause chaos.
Talk about basics.
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I have been asking myself if he indeed was trained in Italy!
 
I don't think there's much point in analysing Udogie and Porro's defensive capabilities. They are in the system as attacking players. It's their offensive output we should be more focused on. Porro consistently delivers and Udogie needs to get there too. Did well for the Bissouma goal yesterday. I also think tracking runs from deep on the break is a difficult skill, particularly in the open system we play and mainly used in the catharsis of blame for goals. So many players switch off, you can see that too by how often a player is free at the far post.
 
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Bullet said:
I can't believe Udogie's defending against Bowen, for the Spam goal today.
The ball is dropping and Udogie doesn't even try to get goal side, he just goes wrong side and seems surprised when Bowen is through to cause chaos.
Talk about basics.
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I think this is one you have to lay at Ange to a certain extent and I say this because all of our players are guilty of it and what that is, is if you watch the goal back again you'll see when the ball initially drops it kind of goes to Udogie but rather than just kicking it away he tries to control it and poke it past Bowen which doesn't work and gives Bowen the ball cleanly with Udogie on the wrong side and the rest is history.

Now I say I think Ange has complicity because it's something you notice all of the defenders do and even Bentancur was guilty of it last time out against Brighton for the 3rd goal. Again rather than just clearing it, he tried to take control of the ball in the box, got beaten and again the rest is history.

This is one where Ange wants us to control the ball and play it out at all times and sometimes we will get it wrong. It's why Ange isn't punishing either player for those mistakes or our other defenders when it happens with them. Romero is also commonly guilty of trying to over play in defense. It's clearly a coaching instruction so one we will have to just accept until Ange decides to approach things differently.
 
Bullet said:
Well here it is @Gazza @DeanoAustin @Cundies undies et al.
A very clear response to those saying he should be more pragmatic, like other coaches; he doesn’t want to be like everyone else, and fade away, he wants to try something different.
He didn’t get where he has, by doing what everyone else does.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1846520014280466915
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That’s fine and all but let’s see how it all goes … we are pretty much guaranteed to concede in every game. Respect it though just can’t suffer it knowing that playing sarr instead of Madison could be just the ticket and margin between getting folded or winning
 
We don’t defend well individually or collectively as a unit. One thing Poch doesn’t get enough credit for is how well he set up the team defensively. We weren’t an easy team to score against. The defenders really enjoyed defending. I think it’s a fair criticism of Ange as he’s been here over a year now and we don’t look any better defensively than we did before he joined.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Course they did
He had 9 men
But he chose to defend rather than attack some think that was the way to play
Some think it wasn’t
Neither got a result because 9 men don’t get results in elite football unless their playing a vastly inferior side
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Liverpool nearly got a draw though, (think we score with pretty much the last kick) whereas we were beaten much earlier. So I would favour Klopp's approach but Ange didn't have defenders sitting on the bench. I mean what are the chances of losing 2 centre backs and a FB in one game?
 
Robspur12 said:
Liverpool nearly got a draw though, (think we score with pretty much the last kick) whereas we were beaten much earlier. So I would favour Klopp's approach but Ange didn't have defenders sitting on the bench. I mean what are the chances of losing 2 centre backs and a FB in one game?
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The missing defenders make a huge difference in comparing the games and set ups. They had 6 defenders on and we had 1 starting defender on
 
Jurgen the German said:
We don’t defend well individually or collectively as a unit. One thing Poch doesn’t get enough credit for is how well he set up the team defensively. We weren’t an easy team to score against. The defenders really enjoyed defending. I think it’s a fair criticism of Ange as he’s been here over a year now and we don’t look any better defensively than we did before he joined.
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Agree, but to be fair if Ange had prime Dembele we'd concede a lot less now too. That guy just bossed midfields for fun, so the defence wasn't under as much pressure....
 
Jurgen the German said:
We don’t defend well individually or collectively as a unit. One thing Poch doesn’t get enough credit for is how well he set up the team defensively. We weren’t an easy team to score against. The defenders really enjoyed defending. I think it’s a fair criticism of Ange as he’s been here over a year now and we don’t look any better defensively than we did before he joined.
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I think collectively we have been alot better this season than last, people are still making silly mistakes, we are certainly getting numbers back into a shape better than last, we are not stretched 2 on 2 or caught short at the back as we were. The goal yesterday was naïve from Udogie (who infairness to both him and Ange assuming he got a rocket was tremendous second half)

Top scorers in the league and only conceded one or two more than Arsenal, one set play concession this season I think it is, might seem heresy to say on here but I think we are better than we were and the trade off isn't as much as people are making out.
 
harr1984 said:
Agree, but to be fair if Ange had prime Dembele we'd concede a lot less now too. That guy just bossed midfields for fun, so the defence wasn't under as much pressure....
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Fair point. We do need someone with a bit more meanness/steel who can also play in the DM. Bissouma does both to an ok standard but does neither at higher than a 6/10 IMO. Sometimes he will give you an 8 or he can also chuck in a 3/10.
 
Bishop said:
We'd also score fewer goals as Dembele was the opposite of a quick and rangey passer. Of the Poch era I think Wanyama would be the DM that would fit this side.
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Pochs peak team would have won 2 nil yesterday. The control would have been there and West Ham would have only threatened with set pieces
Anges system is more adventurous and even more aggressive than Pochs (and Pochs was aggressive)
There are trade offs
The key is outcomes
Any system fails if players can’t execute
 
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