Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[elltrev]

Say what you want about Ange’s reaction, but no one can deny the fact that the Spurs fans in the ground were audibly MUCH happier as soon as we went 2-0 down. Barely a peep before that, then a massive rendition of ‘Oh when the Spurs’ and ‘Are you watching Arsenal’ as soon as the second went in.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Accepting that innstilling a style of play even at the cost of some short term results is good is not the same as hoping we lose.

I think we've seen anger from him recently too. In games, in press conferences. Not quite like this, but certainly some of that anger has been there.

It is exactly the same mate. In both cases, it's rejecting the idea of winning at any and all cost. Some things are more important, both to Ange and to the fans.

Which is fair. But then, you cannot have double standards about it imo - when I decide to sacrifice short term results for long-term gain, it's fine, but when the fans sacrifice short term results to avoid long-term pain, it is unacceptable. Doesn't work that way.

As for anger, I think he's wearily *said* he's angry a couple of times, but he actually meant it yesterday. Which to me is amusing - the fire and brimstone comes out when he's angry about the fans not doing their job, but it's pretty perfunctory when it comes to the players not doing theirs. Misplaced priorities imo.

But we'll only see a true measure of how much he holds the players accountable this summer, I think. If he really is angry at our abysmal collapse, a double digit number of exits and some harsh/brutal ends to Spurs careers are needed.

 

[braineclipse]

It's not mickey mouse to their fans, it's their world. Same as for us. Which is at the centre of this. People feel differently about things, and have different opinions of the same thing. It's what makes the world go round.

So Ange had a different view to those wanting city to win last night, so? It's right that he take that view, he's the manager, not a lifelong fan. His job is to win today not bask/sulk at the success/failures of the past.

This whole episode is essentially pointless as a discussion, because we all have different views which clash. We didn't throw the game, we actually scared city and that is progress in the short term.

Progress both short and medium term.

To play like that against City. Udogie and Davies out, Bissouma out, Werner and Solomon out, Richarlison out. Bentancur still returning to fitness. After a tough couple of months in a strange game.

We played our football, made it really difficult for City and easily could have both gotten something from the game and also won it. A lot of positives to take from that.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Say what you want about Ange’s reaction, but no one can deny the fact that the Spurs fans in the ground were audibly MUCH happier as soon as we went 2-0 down. Barely a peep before that, then a massive rendition of ‘Oh when the Spurs’ and ‘Are you watching Arsenal’ as soon as the second went in.

Eh. I think there was enough encouragement at 0-0, because winning would have meant something. When we went 1-0 down, drawing would have been the worst outcome so there was some hesitancy. At 2-0 the tension was gone. To me it seemed like relief more than anything.

 

[braineclipse]

I'm quite confused by the managers reaction tbqh - the game & performance set it up for him to talk about how well we played, that should be his focus - quite easy for him to say that he understands why some of the fans were/are conflicted about the situation but that he & his players are professionals here to do a job.

Confuses me a bit too. Easiest explanation is that he's tinkled off and some of it came out in perhaps a not so productive way. It happens.

 

[braineclipse]

It is exactly the same mate. In both cases, it's rejecting the idea of winning at any and all cost. Some things are more important, both to Ange and to the fans.

Which is fair. But then, you cannot have double standards about it imo - when I decide to sacrifice short term results for long-term gain, it's fine, but when the fans sacrifice short term results to avoid long-term pain, it is unacceptable. Doesn't work that way.

As for anger, I think he's wearily *said* he's angry a couple of times, but he actually meant it yesterday. Which to me is amusing - the fire and brimstone comes out when he's angry about the fans not doing their job, but it's pretty perfunctory when it comes to the players not doing theirs. Misplaced priorities imo.

But we'll only see a true measure of how much he holds the players accountable this summer, I think. If he really is angry at our abysmal collapse, a double digit number of exits and some harsh/brutal ends to Spurs careers are needed.

It's not exactly the same. One is hoping that we lose a game, the other is the opposite of that.

Was he not a angry when he shouted "stop fudging passing it backwards" (or whatever the quote was)?

I agree that this was not a productive outlet. It happens.

I agree that the summer and the start of next season will both be what tells us more and also what actually matters. On this I continue to have full faith in Ange.

 

[fernadez]

I also noticed we defended corners differently, a combination of zonal and man marking. Another change that could have been brought in sooner in my eyes.

 

[braineclipse]

I also noticed we defended corners differently, a combination of zonal and man marking. Another change that could have been brought in sooner in my eyes.

Hasn't a combination of zonal and man marking been our standard approach all season?

There have been tweaks for some time, particularly noticeable how we've tried to deal with Vic being put under pressure.

 

[Mikey10]

he's transformed us in the past year

We’ve been (with one or two exceptions) terrible since January. Below Everton on points gained. “Transformed us” feels a bit strong.

Not a good look for the manager to get rattled like that

Unfortunately, I’m beginning to think we’ve all seen this movie before. If Conte had behaved like that last night people would be completely losing their s h i t…

 

[braineclipse]

We’ve been (with one or two exceptions) terrible since January. Below Everton on points gained. “Transformed us” feels a bit strong.

Unfortunately, I’m beginning to think we’ve all seen this movie before. If Conte had behaved like that last night people would be completely losing their s h i t…

Disagree with terrible since January with one or two exceptions. Imo we've been inconsistent and vulnerable in some areas.

Even just the game yesterday shows how he's transformed us. With several players missing, probably with players starting that will leave in the summer. We went toe to toe with one of the best teams in the world.

We didn't sit back and hope for a counter as we have successfully in the past against them. We played with ambition, with quality. From where we were a year ago that's transformation.

 

[Pandy]

We’ve been (with one or two exceptions) terrible since January. Below Everton on points gained. “Transformed us” feels a bit strong.

Unfortunately, I’m beginning to think we’ve all seen this movie before. If Conte had behaved like that last night people would be completely losing their s h i t…

It's still night and day compared to the absolute brick from last season.

Also full disclosure I was tinkled up when I wrote that

 

[Glenda's Legs]

I think Ange was wrong to say what he did and I don’t see it as small time at all to enjoy the probable end of the run for Woolwich. That is not the same as wanting us to lose.

What was interesting though was his comment about inside and outside the club. If there were players or staff who were talking before the game about us not winning them I can see why Ange would be very annoyed.

 

[braineclipse]

I think Ange was wrong to say what he did and I don’t see it as small time at all to enjoy the probable end of the run for Woolwich. That is not the same as wanting us to lose.

What was interesting though was his comment about inside and outside the club. If there were players or staff who were talking before the game about us not winning them I can see why Ange would be very annoyed.

Agreed.

I've gotten into a discussion based on the assumption that what he said was about the fans, but what he said was vague enough that we don't actually know what he meant.

A lot that could have happened in the last 48 hours that could have tinkled him off.

If it was a bit irrational so be it. Most top managers have that side to them, it's not a big deal.

 

[Mcfee]

No, Spurs are not fragile at all. Nothing to see here.

 

[thfcsteff]

@thfcsteff , dunno where your post went mate, but one thing you said interests me. You say that we shouldn't imply that he doesn't want to win games of football.

The problem with that is, he has said exactly this, himself, multiple times. Remember when he said we could win without playing well and it would mean less than if we lost but he saw foundations/things he wanted to see in our play?

Winning isn't everything to him. He has principles he is willing to sacrifice winning for. He believes it will make us better in the longer term.

Which is fine - the fans have accepted this as the price of progress. But then, they cannot be blamed for doing exactly what he does - putting other things above winning at all costs.

Also, just saying, I wish I saw some of this anger from him when he lost 4 games out of the last five while the fans were supporting him and the team the whole way. Him only getting snippy after we lost the 5th game of the last 6 isn't a good look.

I deleted that post and several others.

 

[Mrs Vert]

The last 7 games hasnt been great. And we have gotten over the line with some wins and been unlucky in others. We played well yesterday, but we saw that set up because of injuries and he finally making some adjustments.

We dont know how things would have played if Lo Celso had longer minutes in games (only Ange knows why he wont pick him)

Conte got 4th with Kane. We hopefully finish 5th without him. Thats an amazing achievment. I hope we continue to get better and Ange gets backed and adapts.
Would still like to give him 3yrs regardless how 2nd season goes

 

[Bedfordspurs]

East Upper was the same. There were no celebrations when they scored, save for one macaron, and no one cheering City. We were all conflicted but behind Spurs.

I guess what’s harder to rationalise is the very audible chant of “are you watching Arsenal” after we conceded. That was more than a handful of macarons and was embarrassing.

I don’t blame people for feeling conflicted last night. I know I was but getting any joy from Spurs conceding and expressing it like that…I just don’t get it.

Didn’t realise you were posh …

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Say what you want about Ange’s reaction, but no one can deny the fact that the Spurs fans in the ground were audibly MUCH happier as soon as we went 2-0 down. Barely a peep before that, then a massive rendition of ‘Oh when the Spurs’ and ‘Are you watching Arsenal’ as soon as the second went in.

It was relief
Because at 1 goal and son scored we draw
No good for us at all ….

 

[Jurgen the German]

If anyone gives you grief for wanting Spurs to win, that’s stupid. I personally have absolutely no problem with anyone who wanted that and didn’t really care about the potential affect on Arsenal.

But on the other side of the coin, anyone who gives me grief for hoping to lose and now enjoying the fact that it potentially kills Arsenal’s chances is just as stupid.

There is no right or wrong in this situation. It’s a brick situation to be in, hopefully it never happens again.

Will probably happen this time next year knowing our luck

 

[DeanoAustin]

Didn’t realise you were posh …

Eh?