Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[DubSpur]

He had ridiculous amounts of talent. Nice and two footed, could receive the ball in tight spaces and beat players from a standing start on both sides. He also had really good vision and pass execution. He actually started well for us, though showed quite early that you could kick him out of the game. He then seemed to quicky lose any appetite for working hard.

Yup, could've been one of the best in the world if his attitude was at the same level as his talent.

 

[parklane1]

He had ridiculous amounts of talent. Nice and two footed, could receive the ball in tight spaces and beat players from a standing start on both sides. He also had really good vision and pass execution. He actually started well for us, though showed quite early that you could kick him out of the game. He then seemed to quicky lose any appetite for working hard.

Overhyped imo and as you know it takes more then a few tricks on the ball in training to be a player, and he rarely if ever showed it during games.

 

[parklane1]

It didn't look bad when he was first at the club. Even under Mourinho he played well for a little while, it was a bit of the way into that season when things really took a step for the worse.

Well all i can say is i missed him playing well enough to be worth a place and anything like a player who cost what he did. But as they say its all about opinins.

 

[Muttley]

It didn't look bad when he was first at the club. Even under Mourinho he played well for a little while, it was a bit of the way into that season when things really took a step for the worse.

There was a massive reason for that.......Jose.

He literally killed Dnombele physically. Jose would allow ageing Toby to get that defence deeper and deeper and bring Hojbjerg back with them. Jose also had no expectation on Kane and eventually Son to pull their weight defensively. It was down to Tanguy to bridge a massive gap between midfield and attack. Tanguy just did what Son in the wide area had already done and refused to play constantly in the red zone. He hadn't even been conditioned to full fitness anyway after injury.

I always refused to hold a double standard between Kane, Son and Ndombele. Kane showed when we played City what he was supposed to be doing from a work rate perspective. He was phenomenal when tying to impress Pep, showing us that there was not much wrong with him physically. In the other games, he was happy for his team mates to do all of the work. I felt a little sorry for Son as he knew Jose wanted him wider and deeper than he wanted to play. He was asked to play the equivalent of box-to-box, but in the wide areas.

There is one other big difference. That is that Kane and Son would always brown nose to their manager and not make a deal of things. You don't win standing up mentally to intelligent and powerful narcissists. You just play into their hands. They start gaslighting you and just keep going until you are completely subservient to them.

Tanguy clearly had his own issues going on. Multiple managers have proved that he a bad egg. With Jose though, it wasn't all one way.

I always wished that Dele had flattened the bully in the moment. Just knocked the coward straight out rather than play the mental game back.

 

[Robspur12]

You Sir, underestimate the power of Poch's lemons.

In fairness, the only time he ever looked good at Spurs was in his first games under Poch. I remember most fans thinking we have a phenomenally talented and exciting player here. Of course he struggled with his fitness then.

 

[Robspur12]

It was quite ironic the contrasting mirror image of our opening 20min second half collapse against Brighton and our opening 20 minutes second half destruction of West Ham.

Perhaps the pace of the event just all played out too quickly to react/adjust... although it's fair to say that's what managers are paid for.

In Lopetegui's case he actually had sub changes ready at 2-1 and they didn't come on until 4-1!....

Life comes at you fast sometimes

It wasnt exactly a mirror though. It was harder for Lopetegui as there were only 8 minutes separating our 2nd and 4th goals on Saturday and as you say he was already preparing subs at 2-1. Ange had 20minutes from Brighton's first to their third; 10 minutes between the second and third goals. He was definitely like the proverbial rabbit caught in the headlights. If he has learnt from that then brilliant!

 

[Finney Is Back]

Overhyped imo and as you know it takes more then a few tricks on the ball in training to be a player, and he rarely if ever showed it during games.

I wouldn't know about training as I never watched him train. However in first team games he showed his clear talent a few times early on before he seemed to lose interest. Personally I thought his talents were abundantly clear and I'm surprised you don't agree he had talent. He had a whole host of attributes that would have scouts purring. The problem was application and, as I say, that wasn't there right at the start it seemed to come a little while into Mourinho's reign.

 

[parklane1]

I wouldn't know about training as I never watched him train. However in first team games he showed his clear talent a few times early on before he seemed to lose interest. Personally I thought his talents were abundantly clear and I'm surprised you don't agree he had talent. He had a whole host of attributes that would have scouts purring. The problem was application and, as I say, that wasn't there right at the start it seemed to come a little while into Mourinho's reign.

Well as thay say its all about op inions and we obviously not going to agree on this, he is the type of player who would look great in a five a side game [ where he can showboat] but in a Premier lge game he was a passenger most of the time. imo

 

[thfcsteff]

I've been told by somebody that I really trust and who was likely to know that Pochettino wanted us to sign Sessegnon a year earlier than we did (he wanted to gradually ease him in replacing Danny Rose).

Bottom line is that our recruitment structure was a mess back then. It was something that was massively under valued and under invested in and, for a while, we basically ended up reaping what we sowed. Whether that was just through basic negligence or due to stadium costs spiraling out of control and us having to penny pinch everywhere possible I don't know (though the fact that we realised a whole bunch of Champions league revenue earlier than expected indicates the former to me). I still really struggle to comprehend how somebody like Hitchen could end up as head of recruitment for a club the size of THFC.

The good news is this has clearly now been addressed. I have said many, many times that Paratici was an absolute godsend for this club. I'll admit that Levy did a great job in recruiting him to fix the mess that our youth, scouting and recruitment structures had become in the few years leading up to that.

Fingers crossed the lessons have been firmly learned and we continue our journey onwards and upwards.

Funny, I heard a different take from another source. The truth doubtless lies in the middle somewhere...

...whilst I was unsure of him, Paratici did some great foundational work for sure.

 

[Bullet]

Ange had 20minutes from Brighton's first to their third; 10 minutes between the second and third goals. He was definitely like the proverbial rabbit caught in the headlights. If he has learnt from that then brilliant!

I think the spin / narrative / Ange angle on that situation is that Ange was not caught in the headlights, he was not wondering which players to change, he was rather watching the work rate of his players and assessing how they reacted and performed under the strain, so he and they would learn from it (!)
But... who knows.

 

[SkipRat]

I think the spin / narrative / Ange angle on that situation is that Ange was not caught in the headlights, he was not wondering which players to change, he was rather watching the work rate of his players and assessing how they reacted and performed under the strain, so he and they would learn from it (!)
But... who knows.

Had about 15 games at the end of last season to do that, that showed how tinkle poor we were are. It shouldn't be happening this season. No excuses for it.

So I don't buy it at all.

 

[SteveAWOL]

 

[braineclipse]

You Sir, underestimate the power of Poch's lemons.

One person who didn't was Poch himself. In part I think that ended up being his undoing here. It was also part of what made him great for us. But going for big money Ndombele at a time when we missed a lot of steel in our midfield (Dier, Dembele, Wanyama all left/fading). Going for Sanchez when we relied heavily on ball playing centre backs.

I think (of course speculatively) Poch thought he could "fix" those issues sufficiently. Ultimately he couldn't.

I really like Ange so far on these things. Utter belief and confidence in his methods, but also the very real need to find actual solutions to actual problem areas in the squad. Easier with more money now for sure.

 

[glasgowspur]

I had more hope that Poch would unlock the real glc than get ndombele to his best.

 

[billyiddo]

One person who didn't was Poch himself. In part I think that ended up being his undoing here. It was also part of what made him great for us. But going for big money Ndombele at a time when we missed a lot of steel in our midfield (Dier, Dembele, Wanyama all left/fading). Going for Sanchez when we relied heavily on ball playing centre backs.

I think (of course speculatively) Poch thought he could "fix" those issues sufficiently. Ultimately he couldn't.

I really like Ange so far on these things. Utter belief and confidence in his methods, but also the very real need to find actual solutions to actual problem areas in the squad. Easier with more money now for sure.

Easier when you have a transfer department offering you a decent shortlist of players that have been thoroughly vetted based on your requirements also.

My mind goes back to Ange talking about the Dragusin signing not long after, explaining how we work - iirc Lange & his team will provide a list of players to the manager based on what has been discussed and then the two of them essentially sift through the list to narrow it down to a priority candidate (or candidates)

 

[Muttley]

Easier when you have a transfer department offering you a decent shortlist of players that have been thoroughly vetted based on your requirements also.

My mind goes back to Ange talking about the Dragusin signing not long after, explaining how we work - iirc Lange & his team will provide a list of players to the manager based on what has been discussed and then the two of them essentially sift through the list to narrow it down to a priority candidate (or candidates)

Makes you wonder who the next Ange / Lange priority signing is. I'm thinking the 2 positions that Davies currently covers in the squad.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Makes you wonder who the next Ange / Lange priority signing is. I'm thinking the 2 positions that Davies currently covers in the squad.

Seen a few rumours that Danish left-back Patrick Dorgu might be who we go for in January.
Similarly tall left-back who likes to bomb forward apparently.

Interestingly, he is also born in Europe to Nigerian parents like Destiny.

 

[Grays_1890]

Seen a few rumours that Danish left-back Patrick Dorgu might be who we go for in January.
Similarly tall left-back who likes to bomb forward apparently.

Interestingly, he is also born in Europe to Nigerian parents like Destiny.

We are in such a nice place now where additions seem less urgent and easier to do now given we are not desperate for bodies. I like the fact we now seem in a spot where if someone came up we could likely be able to do business for them

 

[glorygloryeze]

We are in such a nice place now where additions seem less urgent and easier to do now given we are not desperate for bodies. I like the fact we now seem in a spot where if someone came up we could likely be able to do business for them

Hope so...Destiny been getting lax, or at least it often looks that way.
He could be looking flimsy at times because he is still getting up to speed after his injury...or...he doesn't have a direct competitor to give him a kick up the backside by directly dropping for...

 

[SkipRat]

Hope so...Destiny been getting lax, or at least it often looks that way.
He could be looking flimsy at times because he is still getting up to speed after his injury...or...he doesn't have a direct competitor to give him a kick up the backside by directly dropping for...

Should play Regulion... Even if he isn't in the long term plans, just by playing Udogie should the message and his lack of performance wont be tolerated.

Never know, Reg may do a Djed and pull his socks up and prove his worth.