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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Played 17, Conceded 23.

I know perhaps you could accuse me of spinning a narrative with the following but that includes the fast start. After that it was Played 9, Conceded 17 (including the 1-4 v Chelsea to be fair which was exceptional but that's still played 8, conceded 13).

With one or more of the first choice defence missing - it was played 21, conceded 38. There's not a massive difference after the fast start last season.

This isn't personnel related in my view.

@fernandez - if we drop 10 yards, it impacts our ability to pressure teams. You could see our high line on Sunday kept the ball coming back to Saudi Sportswashing Machine very early and pinned them in. That's hard to deal with as a defender.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do what you suggest but there is a consequence to it.

Fair enough points and the table shows you are not wrong we do concede far to many goals, i know i will probably sound like a brocken record but we have a CM which is wide open when we lose the ball and that leads to our defense being put under strong pressure.

We have talented players in CM [ maybe not as good as we try to make out at times though] We are really missing a player there who is a DM [ one who has a defensive mindset and game] and none of the players we have can really do that. IMO until we solve that problem we will be wide open to be attacked and far to much pressure on our defensive players.
 
I think it's partly personnel related. We have a tendency to switch off that costs us and that is nothing to do with the setup.
Players that can concentrate for the full game are needed and would improve things.
The only place I can see this as personnel related is in the 6 position. And, given how high we press, I'm not sure an effective 6 makes that much difference.

The other one would be Romero potentially given his start to the season. But the lad is a quality centre back with flaws. Are we really going to upgrade? For a long time, I'd been hearing that "once we get our defenders back, we'll stop conceding". It's just not happening.
 
Fair enough points and the table shows you are not wrong we do concede far to many goals, i know i will probably sound like a brocken record but we have a CM which is wide open when we lose the ball and that leads to our defense being put under strong pressure.

We have talented players in CM [ maybe not as good as we try to make out at times though] We are really missing a player there who is a DM [ one who has a defensive mindset and game] and none of the players we have can really do that. IMO until we solve that problem we will be wide open to be attacked and far to much pressure on our defensive players.
Do you see a 6 solving some of the problem given how high we press? Genuine question coz I know you've done a lot of coaching. To me, it seems that our problems come from the defence being left exposed and that seems to be a consequence of the system and how high we press.
 
Fair enough points and the table shows you are not wrong we do concede far to many goals, i know i will probably sound like a brocken record but we have a CM which is wide open when we lose the ball and that leads to our defense being put under strong pressure.

We have talented players in CM [ maybe not as good as we try to make out at times though] We are really missing a player there who is a DM [ one who has a defensive mindset and game] and none of the players we have can really do that. IMO until we solve that problem we will be wide open to be attacked and far to much pressure on our defensive players.
Archie Gray can play that role, but probably too soon to throw him in.
 
The only place I can see this as personnel related is in the 6 position. And, given how high we press, I'm not sure an effective 6 makes that much difference.

The other one would be Romero potentially given his start to the season. But the lad is a quality centre back with flaws. Are we really going to upgrade? For a long time, I'd been hearing that "once we get our defenders back, we'll stop conceding". It's just not happening.
A proper 6 would help a lot but some of the goals have been down to defenders, mostly Romero, switching off or going walkabout. It doesn't matter how good the rest of a defenders game is if they constantly make a major error or two per game.
 
Think it's a bit rich to have a go at a non existant group of people who are calling for the manager to be sacked.

People, including myself have pointed out that his tactic on the evidence of a over a season has major vunerabilites. Outscoring the opposition is as polar as conceding less than the opposition, but jumping on Conte and Jose was deemed ok, even though I would argue at this stage of both of thier managerial tenures we were more solid at the back and creating more (yes we had Kane but we as a team created more goal scoring chances). Both of those two only went more defensive when they realised their teams were incapable of seeing out wins, up until that West Ham game at home with Jose we were great to watch.

Personally I don't see how, regardless of who we sign or how long he's in charge how they system as it's played will not give up high percentage chances. Watching City they give up exactly the same chances in the same way we do. They difference is the calibre of players they have, to tackle, save, score, control and respond to it. Unless we're taken over, we'll never have the same level of players.

I'm of the opinion that we can keep exactly the same philosophy, make minor adjustments and be a much better functioning unit because of it. Drop the line 10 yards, have on 1 full back push up, play Maddison/someone else higher up the pitch/have Romero move the ball quicker etc. When the manager comes out and repeatedly says nothing will change, this is the way, it's natural to have concerns because we want him to succeed. Seeing us control games between the penalty boxes but fail to work keepers but also give up 1v1's for an extended period of time should be worrying to everyone, because where is the evolution? How do we know managers are saying, just stay in shape lads, we'll break down attacks and hit them quick, plus they're prone to switching off so chances will comes.

Against Saudi Sportswashing Machine I saw tangible evidence that we've worked on attacking set pecies. We didn't score from every corner, but there was enough to be reassured that, ok we're evolving. If he's determined to play the high line for example, I don't think it's unreasonable to look and say, ok VDV is out and he's a big part of the system, let's protect the lads and drop the line 10 so Vic can sweep easier. Cuti wonders sometimes lads so this will also give us a bit of protection from that.

In the south where I sit, there has been nothing but support for Ange, not murmors of discontent, nothing. Just dissapointment when we struggle to get over the line. Nobody wants to start the manager merry go round again. The concerns voiced are from people backing the manager who want him to stay and think that maybe he's not giving himself the best chance of that happening.


For me the big difference between our players and city players is mentality.
They have players who want to win at all costs, that's their sole focus.
We have players who are happy to win and disappointed to lose.
Some of our players are more concerned with stuff happening off the ball than how the play is developing.
Ange has already pointed this out and if some don't get it soon they won't be here long.
 
For me the big difference between our players and city players is mentality.
They have players who want to win at all costs, that's their sole focus.
We have players who are happy to win and disappointed to lose.
Some of our players are more concerned with stuff happening off the ball than how the play is developing.
Ange has already pointed this out and if some don't get it soon they won't be here long.

Issue is that mentality is what seperates good players from great players. Players with that mentality play for teams that win things. You can either use cheat codes and buy it or integrate players with that proven mentality into a younger side. We haven't really done either. Who sets the standard at Tottenham (club football wise, as winning international is completley different.
 
Issue is that mentality is what seperates good players from great players. Players with that mentality play for teams that win things. You can either use cheat codes and buy it or integrate players with that proven mentality into a younger side. We haven't really done either. Who sets the standard at Tottenham (club football wise, as winning international is completley different.

Honestly don't know who does that for us.
My perception of levy is that he is too nice and wants everyone to be happy and have family vibe around the club.
 
For me the big difference between our players and city players is mentality.
They have players who want to win at all costs, that's their sole focus.
We have players who are happy to win and disappointed to lose.
Some of our players are more concerned with stuff happening off the ball than how the play is developing.
Ange has already pointed this out and if some don't get it soon they won't be here long.
This seaosn, the difference has been haaland
That’s it
He is taking chances we aren’t
 
IMG_4261.jpeg

City’s high line vs West Ham
It ended up with a shot that hit the bar
The difference was that city took their chances and West Ham didn’t
Sound familiar?
Of courses not because people will say we don’t have the same quality players. We don’t, but more so. when starting with NO striker. But you don’t then change everything else if you have a faith in the system
 
@fernandez - if we drop 10 yards, it impacts our ability to pressure teams. You could see our high line on Sunday kept the ball coming back to Saudi Sportswashing Machine very early and pinned them in. That's hard to deal with as a defender.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do what you suggest but there is a consequence to it.

Yeah it would, but for me, I'd want to cut out a proven weakness in our tactics. We are overly vunerable to any sort of long ball played, and are not equipped enough to deal with it. The line relies on the press, the fact we keep getting exposed must mean there is a flaw in the press somewhere to begin with. It's a tough call either way, you could easily argue that sorting the press out solves the defensive line problem. I just think that a system that relies on one CB being the fastest player on the pitch is not really a great system. The amount of times we're man for man at the back is stress inducing.
 
You don’t know what is said behind the scenes though
No current manager is calling out their players publicly
Ange does not strike me as the type of fella to mess with. He's got a great way about him and is very big picture. But I wouldn't like to cross him and I think Levy seems to respect him enough to give him that sort of authority with the squad.

There's no way he just gave them a big cuddle and said "it'll be grand lads, that's acceptable" after Sunday.
 
See the photo above
They didn’t do that va West Ham

They did put Haaland 1v1 with the keeper though from a pin point pass. When is the last time we created a chance like that?
Her is a tally food thread explaining the high line… and why teams play it


"Anyway, this is a great example of where you could temper Postecoglou's tactical approach. You could soften the triggers more e.g. already have the line drop when you see the forward pass. Maybe have the full line drop when Maddison is done.

There is a "no compromise" line that Postecoglou like's to adopt which I think sometimes forces him into binary thinking - remember the "fudging PRESS!" line from pre-season. It's all or nothing. And sometimes it just feels like something in between is possible too."

This is the point some people including myself are making.
 
They did put Haaland 1v1 with the keeper though from a pin point pass. When is the last time we created a chance like that?


"Anyway, this is a great example of where you could temper Postecoglou's tactical approach. You could soften the triggers more e.g. already have the line drop when you see the forward pass. Maybe have the full line drop when Maddison is done.

There is a "no compromise" line that Postecoglou like's to adopt which I think sometimes forces him into binary thinking - remember the "fudging PRESS!" line from pre-season. It's all or nothing. And sometimes it just feels like something in between is possible too."

This is the point some people including myself are making.
Som vs Everton

City also did that when they were already 2-1 up and had west ham chasing them

The issue we have had is we aren’t getting ahead and bringing the opposition out

But the way we played against Everton is exactly that

I agree there are compromises
But they come once everyone does it right. You don’t make compromises when people can’t do what’s asked first otherwise they will never get there
 
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