Victor Wanyama

[Bedfordspurs]

I think Diers on the ball ability/impact is being overhyped somewhat tbh

Agreed but we did play better last season and the only significant player change is Victor - the rest have been injury enforced

 

[billyiddo]

Agreed but we did play better last season and the only significant player change is Victor - the rest have been injury enforced

we played better at our best sure but to pin that on Wanyama in instead of Dier when our attacking players have been in and out of form all season and/or injured for several weeks is without substantial evidence

 

[Bedfordspurs]

we played better at our best sure but to pin that on Wanyama in instead of Dier when our attacking players have been in and out of form all season and/or injured for several weeks is without substantial evidence

I agree - I wasn't saying that
merely highlighting why some people have their views about dier being better

 

[Robspur12]

I think Diers on the ball ability/impact is being overhyped somewhat tbh

Absolutely this . There are so many other variables that are more likely to have influenced our form this season, nicely summarized by @NaijaSpurs. It is the usual snobbery from those who prefer so called "ball playing" midfielders over "ball carriers" like Wanyama.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Agreed but we did play better last season and the only significant player change is Victor - the rest have been injury enforced

And I would say being without our best defender for 6 weeks, our best striker for 7 weeks and Dembele's season being dominated by a 4 game ban and injury being an even more substantial impact on our season.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Academic comparing the two. Who is better? Both are excellent. DM is a great role to play. Screen, be a beast and play the simple ball. But they have to continue to develop their attacking sides. Dier has a killer pass and shot, Wanyama showing signs he can hold off players and carry the ball disrupting defences.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[metalgear]

Does Dier have more goals than Wanyama?

Sent from my SM-T819Y using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[glasgowspur]

I'd like to see how he plays not covering an eriksen sized hole and dele giving the ball away constantly.

 

[ringo]

First of all I want a consistent DM pairing.
Second if Wanyama is going to replace Dier as Dembele's partner he has to be clearly better than Dier.
Given that we finished in the top 4 last season and Dier was a stand out performer, he deserves, both on merit and loyalty to be first choice as DM partner to Dembele.
That only changes if he gets a run of games as DM with Dembele and performs badly. He absolutely does not lose his place should he put in sub par performances as CB if asked to play there.

I can only think that Poch believes Wanyama is a better choice at DM than Dier. But even if that is the case - why take the risk. After all we were very close to coming second - that's not so bad is it.

 

[braineclipse]

I'd like to see how he plays not covering an eriksen sized hole and dele giving the ball away constantly.

And I'd like to see how Eriksen and Alli plays not covering a Wanyama sized hole in our buildup play.

People talk about passengers when teams defend, but we had 60% possession today and for me that means that for 60% of the game Wanyama was a passenger.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

And I'd like to see how Eriksen and Alli plays not covering a Wanyama sized hole in our buildup play.

People talk about passengers when teams defend, but we had 60% possession today and for me that means that for 60% of the game Wanyama was a passenger.

Wanyama was fine today but we ant compare apples with apples of dier isn't given a chance there

I didn't understand keeping on victor when dembele was playing the more attacking role and we needed a goal

Also the header he missed was awful and he knew it . Two complete sitters missed back to back that I would add I believe dier would have scored

 

[braineclipse]

Wanyama was fine today but we ant compare apples with apples of dier isn't given a chance there

I didn't understand keeping on victor when dembele was playing the more attacking role and we needed a goal

Also the header he missed was awful and he knew it . Two complete sitters missed back to back that I would add I believe dier would have scored

We see things differently I think. I see no reason to think why the deepest of the two midfielders shouldn't be expected to contribute to our buildup play with useful one and two touch passing. Other than the fact that the one we currently have isn't technically capable of that kind of football. Carrick played as the deeper of two, as did Huddlestone and Bentaleb. No one ever said that it wasn't up to them because the other midfielder had the more attacking role.

Both have their very clear limitations though and it's more the combination of the two I'm getting tired of than any one of them individually because their limitations are so similar.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We see things differently I think. I see no reason to think why the deepest of the two midfielders shouldn't be expected to contribute to our buildup play with useful one and two touch passing. Other than the fact that the one we currently have isn't technically capable of that kind of football. Carrick played as the deeper of two, as did Huddlestone and Bentaleb. No one ever said that it wasn't up to them because the other midfielder had the more attacking role.

Both have their very clear limitations though and it's more the combination of the two I'm getting tired of than any one of them individually because their limitations are so similar.

No I agree with what your saying

I think dier is the better all round footballer as seen last year where he was a revelation and he can do more creatively that he gets credit for

But wanyama has been great too

 

[glasgowspur]

And I'd like to see how Eriksen and Alli plays not covering a Wanyama sized hole in our buildup play.

People talk about passengers when teams defend, but we had 60% possession today and for me that means that for 60% of the game Wanyama was a passenger.

So dele giving the ball away is wanyamas fault?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Well if you have a problem do not buy African players, simple.

We play every 2 years because FIFA in its infinite wisdom treated Africa as a joke and did nothing to promote African football historically. As recently as 1978 the continent of Africa only had 1 representative in the world cup. Playing the ANC every 2 years was the best way to keep international football alive in Africa.

Maybe that was the case in the past, but Africa get 5 teams at the WC now I believe which is in line with South America, Oceania etc.

Even if the tournament was every 3 years it would be better than every two. Can't think of any other tournament that plays it showpiece event in the middle of the European season and as frequently as the ACN. The Copa America was back to back years in 2015 and 2016 but that's not the norm AFAIK.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I am really intrigued with @Gutter Boy andhis anti Wanyama agenda in favour of Dier. @Gutter Boy in particular really does my head in because before we signed him he was slagging him off telling me how he is not good enough for Spurs and he has failed to giver Wanyama any credit since he joined despite the fact that he has been head and shoulders our best midfielder this season and one of best outfield players altogether.

Whenever he can in different threads he cannot resist the urge to dig the knife into Wanyama. When we were 1 win in 10 @Gutter Boy would have you believe that we are a lesser team because Wanyama is starting in midfield and all everything would be right with the world as soon as Dier is restored in midfield in his place.

Yes lets blame it all on Wanyama. No mention of course that unlike last season we lost Toby for a month or so, we lost Kane for 7 weeks, Dembele did not miss the first 4 league matches of the season and that both Alli and Eriksen have been very inconsistent with both players only recently beginning to show the qualities we know both players have, as well of course no Lamela another long term absentee, but lets blame it all on Wanyama.

But the ironic thing is that despite all those absences @Gutter Boy has given no love to Wanyama considering his amazing consistency is one of the reasons we actually have more points noe than we did this time last season. But of course he would not say that because it would not serve his anti Wanyama agenda.

For the record I love Dier, and he earns his place back in midfield then it will be on merit and I have no problem

His individual performances have been very good. But the balance of the team is worse when he's in the side. My concerns about him were always his ability with the ball, not without it. He's a traditional ballwinner, than the rounded double-pivot that our system needs.

Perhaps the solution is to pair him with Winks. But him alongside Dembele or Dier is just too negative and starves our offensive players of quick ball.

 

[mudshark]

My sense is that an in-form Dier supports our forward play better (and is more likely to get on the score-sheet himself), whereas Wanyama is probably the better option for protecting a lead. For that reason, I'd normally prefer to see Dier starting. He hasn't really hit any sort of form yet this season, though, so that complicates things a bit.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

My sense is that an in-form Dier supports our forward play better (and is more likely to get on the score-sheet himself), whereas Wanyama is probably the better option for protecting a lead. For that reason, I'd normally prefer to see Dier starting. He hasn't really hit any sort of form yet this season, though, so that complicates things a bit.

Dier has hardly played midfield and hasn't been reunited with dembele yet

 

[glorygloryeze]

For certain games you need Wanyama. He is the one player who can act as a shield for the defence and do it independently AND give us licence to play a very attack-minded midfield. For example, we would more likely function if Dele Alli was playing as one of the "midfield two" if he was next to Wanyama compared to if he was next to Dembele or Dier.
When we tried Alli as part of the "midfield two" vs Monaco at home it left Dier very exposed. I don't think Wanyama would have been as exposed.
In fact Mason and even Carroll would have benefited if they has to play in the "midfield two" if alongside Wanyama: when they have started alongside Dier there we've been much more exposed because Dier has more facets going forwards but offers less protection to those more 'flimsy' types who would need it (e.g. Carroll, see Saudi Sportswashing Machine game at home last season).

Good to have the option of Wanyama and he is a key member of our squad for solidity.

I'd be happy to give him a rest vs Hull though: if we can't beat Hull without him it would be a big negative mark against Dier (or whoever plays there in his place imo)

 

[parklane1]

I think they play well together, so this should Dier or should it be Wanyama debate does not really have to be a choice. Dembélé was very good last season but so far ( imo) both Dier and Wanyama have done better when they have played in the centre.