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Victimpool FC - Klopp leaving, grown men crying

jrh said:
Some big clubs haven't won trophies since the 50s and 60s. It's overblown nonsense. Just enjoy the ride.
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Yep. Saudi Sportswashing Machine’s last trophy was the 50s and the 90s for both Villa and Everton. But I wonder if their fans have such a weird dismissive attitude towards trophies like some on here do?
 
Jurgen the German said:
Yep. Saudi Sportswashing Machine’s last trophy was the 50s and the 90s for both Villa and Everton. But I wonder if their fans have such a weird dismissive attitude towards trophies like some on here do?
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Think some cups are just worth different levels of celebration? No one is going to dismiss a league cup in reality, it'd be lovely. But personally I'd much prefer the league, a European trophy or FA cup.. in that order.

I think the teasing of the milk cup is a little bit of a coping mechanism too. But yeah, there's too much emphasis put on silverware regardless.

Enjoy the ride. Makes supporting way more enjoyable.
 
Bishop said:
Meh Saudi Sportswashing Machine aren't a big club. Everton and Villa are but they've both won things at least in the colour TV era.
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Saudi Sportswashing Machine aren't a big club? You have no idea what you're on about man.

Forest haven't won anything since the 80s, massive club. Derby since the 70s. Leeds the 80s. All big clubs with storied legacy. It's not uncommon.
 
Sunderland the 70s. All clubs that by rights could claim to 'deserve' or should be winning trophies... It just doesn't work like that.
 
Bishop said:
Meh Saudi Sportswashing Machine aren't a big club. Everton and Villa are but they've both won things at least in the colour TV era.
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So you're one of those that doesn't consider anything before Sky and the invention of the PL worthy of consideration. Or you're just not aware of it. Fair enough.
 
jrh said:
Think some cups are just worth different levels of celebration? No one is going to dismiss a league cup in reality, it'd be lovely. But personally I'd much prefer the league, a European trophy or FA cup.. in that order.

I think the teasing of the milk cup is a little bit of a coping mechanism too. But yeah, there's too much emphasis put on silverware regardless.

Enjoy the ride. Makes supporting way more enjoyable.
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Same order of preference for me too, but any major honour is worth celebrating and shouldn’t be belittled.

I do enjoy the ride but whilst it won’t change me life when we next win something, I can’t deny trophies would make the ride somewhat more enjoyable.
 
jrh said:
So you're one of those that doesn't consider anything before Sky and the invention of the PL worthy of consideration. Or you're just not aware of it. Fair enough.
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I consider Saudi Sportswashing Machine a big club, just not similar in size or stature to us, Everton, Villa etc. There’s an argument that can be made that Saudi Sportswashing Machine aren’t as big as the media, Sky and their own fanbase make them out to be. They have this cache of a big club because they had a similar run of high league finishes from 94-04 just after Sky took over that was comparable to ours under poch, conte and Arry. Their last trophy was some 70 odd years ago.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I consider Saudi Sportswashing Machine a big club, just not similar in size or stature to us, Everton, Villa etc. There’s an argument that can be made that Saudi Sportswashing Machine aren’t as big as the media, Sky and their own fanbase make them out to be. They have this cache of a big club because they had a similar run of high league finishes from 94-04 just after Sky took over that was comparable to ours under poch, conte and Arry. Their last trophy was some 70 odd years ago.
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They've won 9 major trophies to our 8? Big stadium, massive fan base. If we're a 'big' club then so are they.
 
jrh said:
7th according to this, albeit from 2020.

www.sportbible.com

The 40 Biggest Clubs In England Have Been Named And Ranked

Premier League giants scrap it out with some controversial placings.
www.sportbible.com www.sportbible.com
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That list is slightly flawed. Wolves bigger than Villa? Can’t agree with that. And Saudi Sportswashing Machine are not bigger than Villa either. And WBA above West Ham? I hate West Ham but they’re a bigger outfit than West Brom.
 
Jurgen the German said:
That list is slightly flawed. Wolves bigger than Villa? Can’t agree with that. And Saudi Sportswashing Machine are not bigger than Villa either. And WBA above West Ham? I hate West Ham but they’re a bigger outfit than West Brom.
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According to what? That list is using measurable data. Do I trust your intuition over hard facts?
 
jrh said:
They've won 9 major trophies to our 8? Big stadium, massive fan base. If we're a 'big' club then so are they.
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Where are you getting 8 major trophies from? We’ve won 8 FA cups alone, not to mention the two league titles, four league cups, two UEFA cups and cup winners cup.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Where are you getting 8 major trophies from? We’ve won 8 FA cups alone, not to mention the two league titles, four league cups, two UEFA cups and cup winners cup.
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I've misread / brain farted. You are of course right, but their number of trophies historically is not too dissimilar to our own.
 
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Trophies aren't the ultimate measure of what I'd call a 'big' club, nor is winning trophies the only measure of a successful team. That's just where I stand on it.
 
You could argue that the object is to win matches and trophies are a bonus when you win enough in a short period of time. There is more to it than that, as good teams have the ability to rise to the occasion, but winning games over time has be a big part of a ranking. Sometimes clubs get lucky with circumstances and win unexpectedly (e.g. Leicester had a good crop of players in a season when the usual suspects were unusually weak), which counts but has to be seen in context with their match winning success over time.
 
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