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Victimpool FC - Klopp leaving, grown men crying
- Thread starter southstand1882
- Start date
i'm far from the greatest fans of scousers but it could have been any big club in the 80s at hillsbrough that day - in fact there was severe crushing when we had the leppings lane terrace against wolves in 81. several dozen spurs fans were injured.
no one would ever let this go if you were on wrong end of it.
no one would ever let this go if you were on wrong end of it.
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
That's because of emotional involvement. Emotional involvement needs to be completely removed when making any sort of logical conclusion.
I don't blame the families who lost loved ones. But do you hear the Bradford fans banging on?!
And why were the fences there? Because of football hooliganism, so the fences were hardly there to intentionally cause harm. If seating had been introduced sooner it would'nt have happened either.
I know what's coming next. There will be lawsuits galore from both the families and others who, even though they weren't born then, are so traumatised at the thought of it etc.
It's in the past and it always gets dragged up. It was a tragedy but so was Heysel. Funny how that's hardly mentioned anymore even though it also involved the world's greatest fans, from the world's greatest and funniest city etc.
Agree. But what riles me more than anything is that people rarely mention the Bradford city fire a few years earlier. That was just as much a tragedy and the scenes of people on the pitch in flames were horrific.
However, as they are not as big a club, its dosent register with many fans
However, as they are not as big a club, its dosent register with many fans
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
Totally agree. It's the self indulgence that fudges me off, wallowing in pity. They'll still be banging on about it in 50 years time. And you can't take the incident in isolation. There is so much revisionism of that era, people forget the troubles and why the Police most likely over reacted in the first place and why the fences were there.
But what really wound me up was that dumb politician sprouting such rhetoric flimflam.
yiddo2786
Steed Malbranque
It takes more than "a few" fans to crush 96 people to death. A horrible tragedy, something I wish had never happened and will never happen again, something that only Liverpool could use against standing areas so many years later.
clownfoot
Goran Bunjevcevic
It isn't merely the fact that 96 people died that day that is a point of contention, it is that the media (in particular The Sun) cast aspersions that fans were taking wallets from the pockets of the deceased, and urinating on them.
The over crowding could have happened to Tottenham fans a few weeks earlier apparently
The over crowding could have happened to Tottenham fans a few weeks earlier apparently
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Burnham's job depends on the people of Liverpool continuing to vote for him. Of course he is going to appeal to their egos and build up the event in to one of the injustices of the century and paint himself responsible for getting justice for them. THe guy is just after votes same as every other politician.
Politicians aren't thick, they know exactly what to do to get votes.
Politicians aren't thick, they know exactly what to do to get votes.
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
I say it again, who gives a brick? I can understand the families fury and distress but for the rest of us, including Liverpool fans who weren't close to the deceased, it was 23 years ago!!! A quarter of a century and we're still wasting tax payers money on it. Politicians are still trying to earn kudos from it. It just tinkles me off.
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
I don't care of their motives. If they come out with unbelievable comments like that then time to get rid. The man is an utter joke.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
That will only happen if there was a centralised electoral system. In the meantime politicians will continue to play up the importance of their local issues in order to get elected by their constituents.
Harry_Perkins
Ben Thatcher
It was nothing like the Bradford Fire or Heysel. There was no attempt to smear Bradford fans as being to blame for that. There were no blatantly lying police officers trying cover their arses. There was no front page headline 'The Truth' based one 'anonymous police source'. Few people ever contradict the findings of the Popplewell Inquiry but all the lies and smears debunked in the Taylor Report constantly come up about Hillsborough. There are major differences here. Burnham may be indulging in some considerable hyperbole but this issue shouldn't be done and dusted by a long shot. A lot of people who fudged up badly would love that. Yes, I'm sure they're sorry and regret it but this is no defence.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Is it just a coincidence that it's happened to Liverpool twice?
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
It's their tragedy. Their families were the ones who had to grieve.Their supporters were the ones that died. Then those who survived were painted as criminals, aggressors and scum by the Sun.
Yes, they were responsible for Heysel. Does that mean they don't have a right to be collectively aggrieved over something they perceive as being unfair to them?
We're football fans, we have a binding factor that unites us; our club. That involves the team, the stadium, the history and the fans. So, wouldn't any supporter fanbase collectively gather to oppose anyhtnig they feel victimises them? If something like that ever happened to our club, I would be ashamed to support it if we didn't react the same way.
Yes, some of them are being unreasonable. They have a right to be. If this is still around in a hundred years, then maybe it's time for concern over how long they hold grudges. But now? Just twenty years after one of the greatest tragedies to ever strike English football? I don't think they're doing much wrong.
Yes, they were responsible for Heysel. Does that mean they don't have a right to be collectively aggrieved over something they perceive as being unfair to them?
We're football fans, we have a binding factor that unites us; our club. That involves the team, the stadium, the history and the fans. So, wouldn't any supporter fanbase collectively gather to oppose anyhtnig they feel victimises them? If something like that ever happened to our club, I would be ashamed to support it if we didn't react the same way.
Yes, some of them are being unreasonable. They have a right to be. If this is still around in a hundred years, then maybe it's time for concern over how long they hold grudges. But now? Just twenty years after one of the greatest tragedies to ever strike English football? I don't think they're doing much wrong.
chancer
Gudni Bergsson
The reason this is news today is because new documents have come to light showing that the police directly blamed drunken fans for what had happened, and said as much to the Prime Minister herself. As far as I am aware, that is the first piece of direct evidence that they ever said such a thing. That is newsworthy in itself and is of wider import than just the narrow matter of the disaster itself, since it is evidence of public bodies acting questionably.
This revelation comes after denial for donkey's years by the police that they were culpable on the day. That they were also gossiping to senior politicians only amplifies that unethical behaviour...Add in the wicked whispering campaigns by the media over the years, and it can explain why sensitivities are so raw on this.
It is also important to remember the context and time. Thatcher's 80's were a very divisive time, and the cops being in cahoots with the Tories against a Northern working class community is part of a wider narrative that many still say destroyed vast swathes of traditional British society. Whether that is true or not is beside the point, these perceptions persist amongst certain people of a certain generation and it is a big deal to them. It resonates beyond the narrow issue of the disaster itself.
Put if all together, and you have a toxic mix of death, politics, culture, class and geography. It is no wonder it has rumbled on so long, and to blame families today when hacks stick microphones in their faces looking for a comment and politicians make populist grunting noises hardly seems fair, and might even be emblematic of the very disdain the families have complained about for so long.
This revelation comes after denial for donkey's years by the police that they were culpable on the day. That they were also gossiping to senior politicians only amplifies that unethical behaviour...Add in the wicked whispering campaigns by the media over the years, and it can explain why sensitivities are so raw on this.
It is also important to remember the context and time. Thatcher's 80's were a very divisive time, and the cops being in cahoots with the Tories against a Northern working class community is part of a wider narrative that many still say destroyed vast swathes of traditional British society. Whether that is true or not is beside the point, these perceptions persist amongst certain people of a certain generation and it is a big deal to them. It resonates beyond the narrow issue of the disaster itself.
Put if all together, and you have a toxic mix of death, politics, culture, class and geography. It is no wonder it has rumbled on so long, and to blame families today when hacks stick microphones in their faces looking for a comment and politicians make populist grunting noises hardly seems fair, and might even be emblematic of the very disdain the families have complained about for so long.
Harry_Perkins
Ben Thatcher
Errr.... nothing happened to Liverpool twice? Can you not see how the two events are widly different? One was caused by Liverpool hooligans, of which no big club in England had a shortage of at the time - the other was largely caused by the incompetance of South Yorkshire Police. The stuff about drunk fans turning up late without tickets was comprehensively debunked in the Taylor Report.
But why bother with that eh? Some randoms on a message board know better what happened than a (57 page!) report that took hundreds of witness statements and interviews and looked at every detail of what happened with intense scrutiny! Funny as well that they always seem to have an axe to grind about Liverpool? Yep, we should definitely take their word for what happened. LOL.
Harry_Perkins
Ben Thatcher
It is also worth remembering that Burnham himself got heckled and booed during during a speech at the 20th anniversary memorial. The last government liked to trot out the plaudits about Hillsborough whilst not actually taking any action on it. So to link the likes of Burnham in with the people of Liverpool is pretty daft IMO.
you mean the 1984 european cup final in rome when Liverpool fans nearly caused a major riot and in 1985 when they did