VAR: Sponsored by Chelsea

[Kandi1977]

There is an element of humour there yeah, but, overall, we can’t leave pro football to human error, it’s too important, there is too much money involved, we have to throw every tool we have at making the officiating as correct as possible.

Ultimately, that’s all that matters, not fixing it will kill the sport. Yes there have been high profile errors in recent weeks, but overall, decision accuracy is up since VAR was introduced, anything that moves the needle towards 100% is justified.

So let’s help the officials, more tech, more time to use it, fewer mistakes, and certainly fewer partisan people involved, ex players and managers have unconscious (and sometimes very conscious) bias for and against certain clubs.

It's what we had been doing all the time before VAR ruined everything.
Let the ref ref and respect the decisions. End.

 

[Baleforce]

It's what we had been doing all the time before VAR ruined everything.
Let the ref ref and respect the decisions. End.

But we didn’t respect the ref and the decisions, because they were sometimes awful and obvious.

We got angry and screamed corruption.

 

[Kandi1977]

But we didn’t respect the ref and the decisions, because they were sometimes awful and obvious.

We got angry and screamed corruption.

There's been a lot more outrage with VAR, than it was without. Respecting refs decision is purely a matter of teaching respect and applying strict punishment for not respecting the ref.
It would be better for all parts if we would go down this road, especially for refs in lower divisions and grass root football.
Applying more tech only diminishes the refs authority, and makes it a lot more toxic for grass root refs.

 

[Baleforce]

There's been a lot more outrage with VAR, than it was without. Respecting refs decision is purely a matter of teaching respect and applying strict punishment for not respecting the ref.
It would be better for all parts if we would go down this road, especially for refs in lower divisions and grass root football.
Applying more tech only diminishes the refs authority, and makes it a lot more toxic for grass root refs.

I am a grass roots ref, I agree, but what we need to change is the perception, PL football isn’t grass roots football, it’s a different sport with different expectations and standards.

VAR is only a few years in, opposed to over a 100 of the old way, it’ll improve and be better in the long run.

The genie isn’t going back in the bottle, professional players and managers won’t accept mistakes as that can cost them their jobs, the businesses themselves won’t accept mistakes that can potentially cost them millions.

 

[Gutter Boy]

VAR is not going away. What will happen is
more tweaking of the rules to make them more “VARable”.

Why not? Golden goals and kick-ins did eventually, and they weren't half as bad ideas as this nonsense.

 

[Lilbaz]

I am a grass roots ref, I agree, but what we need to change is the perception, PL football isn’t grass roots football, it’s a different sport with different expectations and standards.

VAR is only a few years in, opposed to over a 100 of the old way, it’ll improve and be better in the long run.

The genie isn’t going back in the bottle, professional players and managers won’t accept mistakes as that can cost them their jobs, the businesses themselves won’t accept mistakes that can potentially cost them millions.

Football is entertainment. If people are getting less entertained because of var, that damages the product.

 

[Gutter Boy]

But we didn’t respect the ref and the decisions, because they were sometimes awful and obvious.

We got angry and screamed corruption.

But everyone accepted the principle of fallibility. No one really minded bad referees, because things tended to even up.

Corruption is far worse now, because there's no accountability. Instead of the guy in the pitch looking players in the eye as he makes decisions, it's now bureaucrats in a room hundreds of miles away, with their Singapore betting ring paymasters Whatsapping them their instructions.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Football is entertainment. If people are getting less entertained because of var, that damages the product.

Exactly. We get less and less enjoyable sport, and more and worse quality officiating. It's strangling the life and joy out of the 'product'.

 

[Baleforce]

Football is entertainment. If people are getting less entertained because of var, that damages the product.

Yes, but people are less entertained because of officiating mistakes too, in the long run that will be worse if we don’t at least try to fix it, using technology is the only way forward.

 

[Baleforce]

But everyone accepted the principle of fallibility. No one really minded bad referees, because things tended to even up.

Corruption is far worse now, because there's no accountability. Instead of the guy in the pitch looking players in the eye as he makes decisions, it's now bureaucrats in a room hundreds of miles away, with their Singapore betting ring paymasters Whatsapping them their instructions.

Very few people accepted the principle of fallibility, and it doesn’t even up.

There is accountability now, we get the actual transcripts of the decision process, when mistake are made the officials are stood down.

It’s progress.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Very few people accepted the principle of fallibility, and it doesn’t even up.

There is accountability now, we get the actual transcripts of the decision process, when mistake are made the officials are stood down.

It’s progress.

Accountability would be every single word they say broadcast live and loud into the stadium. As well as all the live images broadcast onto the big screen for players and fans to see.

But even that would still be crap compared to just letting football be football

 

[Baleforce]

Accountability would be every single word they say broadcast live and loud into the stadium. As well as all the live images broadcast onto the big screen for players and fans to see.

But even that would still be crap compared to just letting football be football

I don't believe the fans are capable of that, we'll never just shrug our shoulders and say "yeah we lost, doesn't matter, just the ref making a mistake, I feel for them".

 

[Gutter Boy]

I don't believe the fans are capable of that, we'll never just shrug our shoulders and say "yeah we lost, doesn't matter, just the ref making a mistake, I feel for them".

I think the pendulum has already swung in the sense that the majority have realised the game in declining as spectacle, and young people in particular are disengaging from the sport.

It's like when a tv series gets to its 4th or 5th series, and just gets so meta and self-referential, pandering to a loud minority lobby, that it eats itself. That's what is happening with football at the moment.

 

[Baleforce]

I think the pendulum has already swung in the sense that the majority have realised the game in declining as spectacle, and young people in particular are disengaging from the sport.

It's like when a tv series gets to its 4th or 5th series, and just gets so meta and self-referential, pandering to a loud minority lobby, that it eats itself. That's what is happening with football at the moment.

I don't think that's because of VAR, I think youngsters today have a different interest in the game, my son is more into players than teams, he just wants whatever kit Ronaldo or Mbappe wear, when I was a kid it was just Spurs, they don't have the same type of loyalty that previous generations did. They also want things in smaller portions, he's happy watching goal highlights and celebrity & player trick shot comps on his iPad, not so interested into shlepping into London for an hour to watch a 90 min game.

The customer base is changing, TV fans are where the future money is, they are going to see every incident replayed a hundred times from every angle frame by frame, it would be nonsensical for officials to not have that same benefit.

 

[ShipOfTheseus]

I don't think that's because of VAR, I think youngsters today have a different interest in the game, my son is more into players than teams, he just wants whatever kit Ronaldo or Mbappe wear, when I was a kid it was just Spurs, they don't have the same type of loyalty that previous generations did. They also want things in smaller portions, he's happy watching goal highlights and celebrity & player trick shot comps on his iPad, not so interested into shlepping into London for an hour to watch a 90 min game.

The customer base is changing, TV fans are where the future money is, they are going to see every incident replayed a hundred times from every angle frame by frame, it would be nonsensical for officials to not have that same benefit.

Sort of agree, sort of don’t. I suspect that game tickets will hold their value and remain crucial to the revenue mix, because reasonably well-off consumers will always start to prize authentic non-digital experiences once they hit 30. I agree with you about kids and on the broader point about refereeing evolving in tandem with digital football content consumption.

 

[Baleforce]

Another point, kids play a lot of football video games, where all officiating is via technology.

EA might need to change the tagline, if it’s in the game, it should be in the game.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

First 3 I pretty much agree with.

The forth about robot officials I don’t know what he means

The fifth re ex players and managers getting involved - i couldn’t disagree more, it would be a catastrophe!

 

[Gutter Boy]

First 3 I pretty much agree with.

The forth about robot officials I don’t know what he means

The fifth re ex players and managers getting involved - i couldn’t disagree more, it would be a catastrophe!

Rugby and cricket have always had much better officiating, as theirs is done by ex-players; rather than failed players who were bullied at school. The wages in football I guess just prevent any ever following that path.

 

[Kandi1977]

I don't believe the fans are capable of that, we'll never just shrug our shoulders and say "yeah we lost, doesn't matter, just the ref making a mistake, I feel for them".

You're very mistaken, because that's exactly how it was. Without the endless microscopic forensic analysis of VAR, fans accepted the game for what it was. Some decisions went against you, and some went for you. And that was it. It was occasionally annoying, but nothing more. Next time around, something went in your favour.

 

[Kandi1977]

Very few people accepted the principle of fallibility, and it doesn’t even up.

There is accountability now, we get the actual transcripts of the decision process, when mistake are made the officials are stood down.

It’s progress.

If mistakes aren't allowed, we need to stop football all together, because players make horrible mistakes constantly!
Why should refs be the only participant on the field that isn't "allowed to make a mistake? Doesn't add up.