U23s, Academy and Loanees

[Bedfordspurs]

Sorry mate but it is very different. Physicality and experience makes a massive difference on the football pitch. There are a tiny number of young players who can just go straight in and cope.

Don’t disagree
But you need games
It’s why I’m happy with the loan
But playing players very out of position is daft IMO

 

[Lemonade Money]

It is still men's football and massively different to youth football.

I'm going through this at the moment with my 16 year old son. Played at a decent EJA standard for a few years, and is now at an academy. They have advised the boys to also get experience in a men's first team, rather than only playing against other academies. He came off his first preseason trial questioning whether he was good enough for mens football, but that experience stood him in good stead for the next trial. Half a season in of playing 90 minutes each week (by a club who have wholeheartedly supported his acclimatisation despite earlier results), he's finally starting to feel comfortable, and is paying the club back. Even though IMO he's the most gifted player in the team, he was nowhere near the physicality and street-smart of the senior players, but he's getting there. Meanwhile his academy football is totally different, technically superior, but without the physical side.

Having seen this, I don't know how any Spurs youth player can get into our team without experiencing senior football at a level they are better than (to take the pressure of needing to impress out of the equation, and also be guaranteed minutes), in order to come back to Spurs and be used to that physicality (to take that part out of the equation of performing in the PL). People talk about Kane's loan spells being unsuccessful, but I bet they were vital to his development.

 

[Muttley]

I'm going through this at the moment with my 16 year old son. Played at a decent EJA standard for a few years, and is now at an academy. They have advised the boys to also get experience in a men's first team, rather than only playing against other academies. He came off his first preseason trial questioning whether he was good enough for mens football, but that experience stood him in good stead for the next trial. Half a season in of playing 90 minutes each week (by a club who have wholeheartedly supported his acclimatisation despite earlier results), he's finally starting to feel comfortable, and is paying the club back. Even though IMO he's the most gifted player in the team, he was nowhere near the physicality and street-smart of the senior players, but he's getting there. Meanwhile his academy football is totally different, technically superior, but without the physical side.

Having seen this, I don't know how any Spurs youth player can get into our team without experiencing senior football at a level they are better than (to take the pressure of needing to impress out of the equation, and also be guaranteed minutes), in order to come back to Spurs and be used to that physicality (to take that part out of the equation of performing in the PL). People talk about Kane's loan spells being unsuccessful, but I bet they were vital to his development.

The part I keep coming back to is the role of the 1st team bench. Modern football gets the luxury of 5 subs nowadays, and those cameos are so important. Even better with your boy that he can play at both mens and academy levels at the same time. You never hear of this at Spurs. It seems that if you're promoted to train with the 1st team, then your chances of turning out for our U21's are very slim. That always seems a little strange to me.

 

[Lemonade Money]

The part I keep coming back to is the role of the 1st team bench. Modern football gets the luxury of 5 subs nowadays, and those cameos are so important. Even better with your boy that he can play at both mens and academy levels at the same time. You never hear of this at Spurs. It seems that if you're promoted to train with the 1st team, then your chances of turning out for our U21's are very slim. That always seems a little strange to me.

He also trained regularly with his academy clubs' mens first team whilst in the EJA, and whilst that definitely helped him develop, it didn't really prepare him for actually playing mens first team football. I don't know about Spurs' U21s, but I'm guessing that wouldn't either.

 

[JerusalemMan]

I'm going through this at the moment with my 16 year old son. Played at a decent EJA standard for a few years, and is now at an academy. They have advised the boys to also get experience in a men's first team, rather than only playing against other academies. He came off his first preseason trial questioning whether he was good enough for mens football, but that experience stood him in good stead for the next trial. Half a season in of playing 90 minutes each week (by a club who have wholeheartedly supported his acclimatisation despite earlier results), he's finally starting to feel comfortable, and is paying the club back. Even though IMO he's the most gifted player in the team, he was nowhere near the physicality and street-smart of the senior players, but he's getting there. Meanwhile his academy football is totally different, technically superior, but without the physical side.

Having seen this, I don't know how any Spurs youth player can get into our team without experiencing senior football at a level they are better than (to take the pressure of needing to impress out of the equation, and also be guaranteed minutes), in order to come back to Spurs and be used to that physicality (to take that part out of the equation of performing in the PL). People talk about Kane's loan spells being unsuccessful, but I bet they were vital to his development.

Could be that Mikey Moore is an extreme outlier

 

[Finney Is Back]

Could be that Mikey Moore is an extreme outlier

I think so. Though, even with a player as technically good as Mikey is I can see him having to try to adapt to the pace.

In many ways Mikey would probably be better for going off and playing mens football via a good loan move. The counter to that though is that with the way that he plays there is a danger of him coming in for a lot of punishment so I think the club are being careful with him, especially with him being SO young.

 

[Muttley]

He also trained regularly with his academy clubs' mens first team whilst in the EJA, and whilst that definitely helped him develop, it didn't really prepare him for actually playing mens first team football. I don't know about Spurs' U21s, but I'm guessing that wouldn't either.

I think it depends.

I don't necessarily agree with a 23 year old Max Robson taking a shirt in our U21s, but when an U18 comes in an plays against 21 year olds that is a learning curve. It's even better when they play League 1 / 2 teams in the cup.

Such a shame that we don't adopt the Spanish model. Those Spanish B teams have it all. They get to be fast tracked into the 1st team squad, they get to stay at their club and they get to play against men in the league every week. They have to figure out how to make their more natural talent overcome the physicality of the old guys they play against.

I'd love to rip up this current pyramid and collapse it down. Eng-Sco-Wal at the top of the pyramid, then becoming regional as you go down, including the B-teams. I'd love to see a natural path for a Rangers or Celtic to earn their right to the same pot of gold that Utd and Spurs enjoy.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I think it depends.

I don't necessarily agree with a 23 year old Max Robson taking a shirt in our U21s, but when an U18 comes in an plays against 21 year olds that is a learning curve. It's even better when they play League 1 / 2 teams in the cup.

Such a shame that we don't adopt the Spanish model. Those Spanish B teams have it all. They get to be fast tracked into the 1st team squad, they get to stay at their club and they get to play against men in the league every week. They have to figure out how to make their more natural talent overcome the physicality of the old guys they play against.

I'd love to rip up this current pyramid and collapse it down. Eng-Sco-Wal at the top of the pyramid, then becoming regional as you go down, including the B-teams. I'd love to see a natural path for a Rangers or Celtic to earn their right to the same pot of gold that Utd and Spurs enjoy.

Why do celtic or rangers deserve the chance to be in the premiership?

If we are going to have foreign countries teams in I would rather Ajax.

 

[Lemonade Money]

but when an U18 comes in an plays against 21 year olds that is a learning curve.

Not if those 21yr olds are academy bred who haven't played mens football, IMO (well not to the same extent).

 

[Lemonade Money]

Could be that Mikey Moore is an extreme outlier

Hopefully, but from what I've seen, I'd say he needs a loan - could be he's too young at the moment for a loan? Be interesting to hear from someone who watched him regularly in the youth teams, for their opinion on how that compares to what we're seeing in the first team now?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Hopefully, but from what I've seen, I'd say he needs a loan - could be he's too young at the moment? Be interesting to hear from someone who watched him regularly in the youth teams, for their opinion on how that compares to what we're seeing in the first team?

Moore barely played youth football
Jumped up to men’s after less than 20 games

 

[Bullet]

Hopefully, but from what I've seen, I'd say he needs a loan - could be he's too young at the moment for a loan? Be interesting to hear from someone who watched him regularly in the youth teams, for their opinion on how that compares to what we're seeing in the first team now?

I remember Ange saying or implying that Moore was too young to be sent on loan as he was still a baby. You wouldn't send a 14 year old or 15 year old or 16 year old into some alien environment if they are a juvenile spirit and not some freak that grew up on the streets of an African city or a barrio in Rio

 

[Bullet]

Veliz is starting tonight for Espanol, for a change, if anyone still cares about him.

 

[Bullet]

Veliz is starting tonight for Espanol, for a change, if anyone still cares about him.

He came off at 80 mins, so a very decent chunk of time to take his chance.
Wasn't awful but was mostly a big guy putting himself about, won a few headers, had a lot of duels with a big eastern European dude, including getting headed right in the back of the skull.
When he did win the ball, got cleaned out viciously from behind.
Eventually he got hold of a long ball (kinda stood on it) and both he and the defender fell over, he recovered and shovelled it to a winger who crossed for someone to head in for 2-1. That was his main highlight.

 

[Muttley]

Why do celtic or rangers deserve the chance to be in the premiership?

If we are going to have foreign countries teams in I would rather Ajax.

Nah they don't automatically. They deserve the right to fight for the chance to be in the PL and get all the stupid money from the pricks at Sky and the other broadcasting companies that are killing the beautiful game.

Football is a money train in the British Isles. Cardiff and Swansea get to play. Celtic and Rangers don't. Why is that?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Nah they don't automatically. They deserve the right to fight for the chance to be in the PL and get all the stupid money from the pricks at Sky and the other broadcasting companies that are killing the beautiful game.

Football is a money train in the British Isles. Cardiff and Swansea get to play. Celtic and Rangers don't. Why is that?

I believe the welsh teams always were part of the English league
And the Scottish ones weren’t

 

[Muttley]

I believe the welsh teams always were part of the English league
And the Scottish ones weren’t

Yes, not disagreeing with that.

I'm just saying that the connected British Isles should be one pyramid, but with some intelligence applied to how we achieve that. Part of me wants Northern Ireland integrated as well.

You can't just throw Celtic in the PL at the expense of the Saints. There would need to be a system that normalises over multiple seasons.

Lol - I know your age. You must admit the attraction for a Spurs vs Rangers PL away tie on a weekend with our club's joint histories. Both clubs sharing the £8m pot of TV revenues, and then fighting over Big Vic or VVD in the transfer market in the summer.

I need TP for my bunghole.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yes, not disagreeing with that.

I'm just saying that the connected British Isles should be one pyramid, but with some intelligence applied to how we achieve that. Part of me wants Northern Ireland integrated as well.

You can't just throw Celtic in the PL at the expense of the Saints. There would need to be a system that normalises over multiple seasons.

Lol - I know your age. You must admit the attraction for a Spurs vs Rangers PL away tie on a weekend with our club's joint histories. Both clubs sharing the £8m pot of TV revenues, and then fighting over Big Vic or VVD in the transfer market in the summer.

I need TP for my bunghole.

It would be different for sure but their relevance is only because if their history and that history is earned in their own league

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Nah they don't automatically. They deserve the right to fight for the chance to be in the PL and get all the stupid money from the pricks at Sky and the other broadcasting companies that are killing the beautiful game.

Football is a money train in the British Isles. Cardiff and Swansea get to play. Celtic and Rangers don't. Why is that?

Because they always wanted to be independent.

Clearly you know nothing about this country. You should go educate yourself on it.

I would not want the old firm or their racist fans in our competition.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Yes, not disagreeing with that.

I'm just saying that the connected British Isles should be one pyramid, but with some intelligence applied to how we achieve that. Part of me wants Northern Ireland integrated as well.

You can't just throw Celtic in the PL at the expense of the Saints. There would need to be a system that normalises over multiple seasons.

Lol - I know your age. You must admit the attraction for a Spurs vs Rangers PL away tie on a weekend with our club's joint histories. Both clubs sharing the £8m pot of TV revenues, and then fighting over Big Vic or VVD in the transfer market in the summer.

I need TP for my bunghole.

Are you 13 years old?

The saints?
Do you mean Southampton


Jesus fudge the is not enough alcohol produced to wipe from my mind the nonsense I have just read.