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We'll be after the cheapest possible player we can get to act as a filler in the squad and a way for Levy to look at Poch and declare "you see? I reinforced where you wanted." Spending on signing players for four positions is extremely unlikely, because now Levy has an additional excuse to do what he was always going to do anyway: just point to the youth squad and say 'see? use them.'
So yes, I wouldn't expect miracles, and you're in for a surprise if you are expecting.
Liverpool are not in a domestic cup final, are significantly lower than us in the table at the time of writing, and have a net spend of 36 million pounds this summer alone, not to mention the consistent net spends they racked up under Rodgers prior to that.
I don't think they particularly have to prove their ambition to anyone. Their chairman is ambitious, and their fans know that, as do the wider luminaries of the football world. Our chairman, on the other hand, is rip-roaringly delighted that he didn't have to spend any money this window (even Alli came in under our earnings made through sales), and couldn't care less that we are one injury to Kane away from disaster.
Even our peer competitors, Arsenal, did both the Alli-type deal (Bielik) and a real deal to reinforce their squad (that CB). But our great and glorious leaders thought that a vile concept, as it might (gasp!) have involved going over our net income to get someone in, a no no even if we did make another profit in the summer.
Ah, well. I hope and pray Kane and Eriksen don't get injured: if they do, and we lose the CC final because of that, then the last defense of those who claim Levy is 'ambitious' and has a desire to win trophies will be washed away with the tears and anger.
We'll be after the cheapest possible player we can get to act as a filler in the squad and a way for Levy to look at Poch and declare "you see? I reinforced where you wanted." Spending on signing players for four positions is extremely unlikely, because now Levy has an additional excuse to do what he was always going to do anyway: just point to the youth squad and say 'see? use them.'
So yes, I wouldn't expect miracles, and you're in for a surprise if you are expecting.
I've been called an absolute 'bundersnark' ( ) for talking about the summer 2013 window at length, so I'll just leave that particular topic by saying that even in the window during which our best ever PL player was sold for a world record fee....the manager still ended up with four players he didn't want, because they were either a) the 'value' option Levy ran for, or b) the 'long term value' option that AVB presumably wanted nothing to do with.
'Buying' success, in any case, is eminently, eminently possible: it isn't some far fetched concept, it's been done and the teams who have done it have zoomed ahead of us and are cheerily waving back to us as we plod along, consoling ourselves with 'we're doing it the right way, honest!': just our luck that we've got one of the richest owners in the league, but also one of the most miserly and disinterested in the club he owns.
As for United, aren't they ahead of us in the table, in third place and likely to finish in a CL spot with the manager who turned us down when they came calling? I wouldn't consider that 'going nowhere'.
For me I understand the lack of movement for a straight in to the first team signing, obviously we didn't manage get rid of perhaps harshly named deadwood, and I guess that not much apart from other clubs deadwood was available for a mid season move. There'd be risks to take ie I think that throwing 20m at a club like villa for benteke at the moment would be a big gamble. Not much high value deals and also no experienced heads that bring something different available for loan, the Eider deal being a good example of when that kind of deal can have a positive impact on the squad.
Given that Poch is still getting used to the squad and different player's potential, ie Dembele suddenly looking really capable behind the striker, Stambouli coming in to form, Dier looking solid so far at CB I believe that Poch doesn't need to make a panic buy and there's not an Aguero on the market (like most of the time clubs are looking out for looking for a player of that magnitude)
Selling Naughton makes sense, a permanent deal for Lennon would have been more ideal if we're saying we don't need him in the coming months but hopefully he'll prove himself on loan. Yedlins turned up, and Poch has time to see him in training daily to assess him (as well as some international friendlies coming up). Also the purchase of Alli looks like the type of signing I want to see Spurs make. Young and talented, with potential to improve. Happy to see stay with MK Dons for their title race and we'll have the pre season in summer with him to ease him in.
It's not a transfer window flash spending to get everyone screaming but one of slight squad shaping, a talented youth player in alongside two important young players signing long term deals. Alas, we couldn't find suitable takers for the lesser needed members of the squad but there are reasons for that ie money + players being out of form.
I do agree that it's a worry if we have injuries in key positions but our competitors will be thinking the same thing. It's hard to find quality of Kane and Eriksen's level. There are reports of us inquiring about Schurrle and being quoted 30m+, we were looking but not finding value and having a bloated squad. With the amount of games we have we'll need someone to step up, with players like Lamela, Dembele, Paulihno, Soldado, Townsend that have shown ability but perhaps not consistency at this level there's a hope that they will come good, with some of those players there have been promising signs of late.
I've been called an absolute 'bundersnark' ( ) for talking about the summer 2013 window at length, so I'll just leave that particular topic by saying that even in the window during which our best ever PL player was sold for a world record fee....the manager still ended up with four players he didn't want, because they were either a) the 'value' option Levy ran for, or b) the 'long term value' option that AVB presumably wanted nothing to do with.
'Buying' success, in any case, is eminently, eminently possible: it isn't some far fetched concept, it's been done and the teams who have done it have zoomed ahead of us and are cheerily waving back to us as we plod along, consoling ourselves with 'we're doing it the right way, honest!': just our luck that we've got one of the richest owners in the league, but also one of the most miserly and disinterested in the club he owns.
As for United, aren't they ahead of us in the table, in third place and likely to finish in a CL spot with the manager who turned us down when they came calling? I wouldn't consider that 'going nowhere'.
So basically you are annoyed that somebody isn't giving away all their money to the club? We are not a vanity project we are a football club, why should we expect somebody to give us a load of money?? Or are you expecting somebody to sweep in spend £500mil and we suddenly become bigger than Utd and worth 1 billion. Good concept, not sure it worked long term for say Blackburn or Leeds, short term success doesnt create long term stability or success.
Leveraged buy outs are not a good thing, however short Utd's yellow and green phalanx are! Saudi Sportswashing Machine have a complaint to make they are being used to make a short profit!.
Jack Walker comes along and wants to spend his money thats fine, congratulations if we all work hard maybe we can do that.
However getting annoyed we are spending what we earn is ridiculous, and exactly the problem with the entitlement nature that some fans/people have.
So basically you are annoyed that somebody isn't giving away all their money to the club? We are not a vanity project we are a football club, why should we expect somebody to give us a load of money?? Or are you expecting somebody to sweep in spend £500mil and we suddenly become bigger than Utd and worth 1 billion. Good concept, not sure it worked long term for say Blackburn or Leeds, short term success doesnt create long term stability or success.
Leveraged buy outs are not a good thing, however short Utd's yellow and green phalanx are! Saudi Sportswashing Machine have a complaint to make they are being used to make a short profit!.
Jack Walker comes along and wants to spend his money thats fine, congratulations if we all work hard maybe we can do that.
However getting annoyed we are spending what we earn is ridiculous, and exactly the problem with the entitlement nature that some fans/people have.
Ah, I see: you're not entirely certain of what I want versus what I believe Levy is giving us. Fair enough. I won't go through the trouble of elaborating my position again on an unrelated thread, so look in the spoiler if you're interested:
suffice it to say that we are going to earn ENIC a humongous profit when they sell up with comparatively little investment on their part to warrant earning that massive profit, with the club's rise from the bottom reached prior to them achieved entirely with the money of the fans, who are now charged the second-highest season ticket prices in the league to ensure that ENIC don't have to spend anything on their side.
They used to make fairly good decisions, which is the majority of their input into the club: that is what they should be judged on, because they contribute precious little else. They have ceased making those good decisions, have fobbed us off with empty words of 'ambition', have twisted this club's ethos of going for glory into 'make do with the cheapest and go for whatever glory we can scrape up without a positive net spend', have played at being bigger than we are by hiring the reputed AVB and then miserably failing to back him in any way, and have failed to take even the smallest of risks or risk their own precious financial security to push us over the line when our managers do get us to within touching distance of success in spite of their attempts to hinder that pursuit.
Overall, there are owners like Abramovich and Mansour out there who have actively taken their clubs past ours and made them competitive with United, have brought their clubs glory days, trophies and the pursuit of excellence, all the while making the experience for their own fans cheap, affordable and genuinely fan-friendly (in Mansour's case). All things that were once important to this club, but have long since been superseded by a combination of incompetence pre-ENIC and then a relentless drive to be as cheap as possible during their tenure, ambition be damned. So please, don't act like the spending route doesn't create long-term stability or bring overt success - Chelsea have been owned by Abramovich for a decade, and show no signs of slowing down as they cheerily accumulate trophies and relegate us to being alongside West Ham in terms of importance in the capital.
Do I want an owner like that? You're damned right I do. It's unlikely we'll get one, so the best I could previously hope for was for ENIC to occasionally push the boat out and invest a little when the club needed it, when trophies and glory were within our reach: the hope being that a) they could very easily recoup that when they sold up, and then some, and that b) if it succeeded the club would gain value, and if it failed, it still wouldn't overly dent the projected profit they'd make when they did sell up. That much faith and sincerity was what I expected and hoped for from the owners of our club. That hope was coolly shattered by Saha, Nelsen, the numerous transfer disputes under AVB, and then this summer's shenanigans.
So please, don't equate our situation to Leeds or Blackburn, and don't call what fans like me want from their club and their club owners as 'entitlement'. One way or another, ENIC will get their investment back in spades, and this club will be profitable investment for them whatever happens: ultimately, that is what they are, an investment company, absolutely nothing more. But they are not well-wishers of my club: at most, they are incidentally interested in it remaining self-sufficient and profitable so their own eventual profit to be made on their 'asset' can be safeguarded and maximised. Their ambition is not for trophies, glory and living up to the words of Bill Nicholson - their ambition is the most negative net spend possible, a trail of managers angry at the lies of 'ambition' poured into their ears by Levy's silver tongue and a massive eventual profit that will be made on their tidy little 'asset'. And as far as I'm concerned, that jarring disconnect far outweighs what incidental benefits they have brought to the club I love, with this transfer window once again being an affirmation of the fact that they couldn't care less about pursuing trophies and success as long as the net spend remains negative, even when we're in a goddamn cup final.
I'm weary of them. I'm also a wee bit surprised and sad for the people who believe that this race to the bottom, bargain-bin basement shopping and 'success-on-the-cheap' mentality will be set aside come the summer/January/next year, and that we'll actually go out and address our holes with the players the manager wants.
We will do no such thing. That was my initial point, mate: if you think we're going to get the players we need in the summer, or anything more than a derisory cheap bargain buy to provide some flimsy excuse for Levy to use when Poch asks for backing, you're in for a surprise, that's all.
Ah, I see: you're not entirely certain of what I want versus what I believe Levy is giving us. Fair enough. I won't go through the trouble of elaborating my position again on an unrelated thread, so look in the spoiler if you're interested:
suffice it to say that we are going to earn ENIC a humongous profit when they sell up with comparatively little investment on their part to warrant earning that massive profit, with the club's rise from the bottom reached prior to them achieved entirely with the money of the fans, who are now charged the second-highest season ticket prices in the league to ensure that ENIC don't have to spend anything on their side.
They used to make fairly good decisions, which is the majority of their input into the club: that is what they should be judged on, because they contribute precious little else. They have ceased making those good decisions, have fobbed us off with empty words of 'ambition', have twisted this club's ethos of going for glory into 'make do with the cheapest and go for whatever glory we can scrape up without a positive net spend', have played at being bigger than we are by hiring the reputed AVB and then miserably failing to back him in any way, and have failed to take even the smallest of risks or risk their own precious financial security to push us over the line when our managers do get us to within touching distance of success in spite of their attempts to hinder that pursuit.
Overall, there are owners like Abramovich and Mansour out there who have actively taken their clubs past ours and made them competitive with United, have brought their clubs glory days, trophies and the pursuit of excellence, all the while making the experience for their own fans cheap, affordable and genuinely fan-friendly (in Mansour's case). All things that were once important to this club, but have long since been superseded by a combination of incompetence pre-ENIC and then a relentless drive to be as cheap as possible during their tenure, ambition be damned. So please, don't act like the spending route doesn't create long-term stability or bring overt success - Chel53a have been owned by Abramovich for a decade, and show no signs of slowing down as they cheerily accumulate trophies and relegate us to being alongside West Ham in terms of importance in the capital.
Do I want an owner like that? You're damned right I do. It's unlikely we'll get one, so the best I could previously hope for was for ENIC to occasionally push the boat out and invest a little when the club needed it, when trophies and glory were within our reach: the hope being that a) they could very easily recoup that when they sold up, and then some, and that b) if it succeeded the club would gain value, and if it failed, it still wouldn't overly dent the projected profit they'd make when they did sell up. That much faith and sincerity was what I expected and hoped for from the owners of our club. That hope was coolly shattered by Saha, Nelsen, the numerous transfer disputes under AVB, and then this summer's shenanigans.
So please, don't equate our situation to Leeds or Blackburn, and don't call what fans like me want from their club and their club owners as 'entitlement'. One way or another, ENIC will get their investment back in spades, and this club will be profitable investment for them whatever happens: ultimately, that is what they are, an investment company, absolutely nothing more. But they are not well-wishers of my club: at most, they are incidentally interested in it remaining self-sufficient and profitable so their own eventual profit to be made on their 'asset' can be safeguarded and maximised. Their ambition is not for trophies, glory and living up to the words of Bill Nicholson - their ambition is the most negative net spend possible, a trail of managers angry at the lies of 'ambition' poured into their ears by Levy's silver tongue and a massive eventual profit that will be made on their tidy little 'asset'. And as far as I'm concerned, that jarring disconnect far outweighs what incidental benefits they have brought to the club I love, with this transfer window once again being an affirmation of the fact that they couldn't care less about pursuing trophies and success as long as the net spend remains negative, even when we're in a goddamn cup final.
I'm weary of them. I'm also a wee bit surprised and sad for the people who believe that this race to the bottom, bargain-bin basement shopping and 'success-on-the-cheap' mentality will be set aside come the summer/January/next year, and that we'll actually go out and address our holes with the players the manager wants.
We will do no such thing. That was my initial point, mate: if you think we're going to get the players we need in the summer, or anything more than a derisory cheap bargain buy to provide some flimsy excuse for Levy to use when Poch asks for backing, you're in for a surprise, that's all.
Excellent post. Pity those who keep telling me we'll get our targets in the summer. We simply won't as like schneiderlin, like Rodriguez and like mussachio we will go for the cheaper option. Is it any surprise nearly every player we been heavily linked with recently has 6 months left of their contracts?
Much of your post i agree with ENIC are an investment company, they will make profit if they sold. Levy is a spurs fan, however they are investors who want a return probably! We have gone up the football rich list through sensible management. The other team with more expensive tickets those lot - why, well they are run like a club and they also are in central london.
Abramovitch has plowed in £1.5 billion by more estimates (Bleacher Report)
Sheikh Mansour has plowed in well over £1 billion into Emirates Marketing Project
Man Utd were purchased with borrowed money and saddled with a £790million pound debt
There are no escaping from the numbers, we are going against hugely wealthy people playing with football clubs. We havent got the financial clout to go against them.
We buy badly from our top 10 most expensive signings 7 have been flops
6 of our 10 biggest sales have come from outside that list
A) We come from opposing views - for me Tottenham is not ALL about winning at any cost, being another football Oil company doesn't appeal. With all the slagging off Ade gets rightly or wrongly for being a mercenary, you are going to buy a team of them, some fans heads would boil with rage. We pay him 300million why is his speed not 99 and his finishing 100.
B) We haven't got a history of spending well, spending more money doesn't guarantee success. If we had gone out and brought 5 players in the summer, Kane would be at Watford, Mason at Swansea and Bentaleb in France. Would i feel happier seeing Neuer holding aloft with Toure and Hazard next to him. Or see the current youth crop see where they can take us.
C) We are constantly in the top 6 clubs in the country, plenty of clubs with richer histories than us would happily swap places, should that mean we should settle of course not, but to progress we need to have a plan, every time spurs fans get upset somebody gets booted out and we start again.
What are our targets i said a schneiderlin type a rodriguez type, who are those i dont know, thats why we have got Paul Mitchell in to find Gareth Bale at 5million and not just go and buy Bentekke for 30million.
In the last 40yrs we have won 2 League Cups 3 FA Cups and 1 UEFA Cup.
A) - no argument there, we do come from opposite points. However, I don't particularly care for the 'mercenary' label, per se: It is meaningless in age where footballers move around so frequently and so quickly. And I also don't think it's all about winning, per se - it has a lot more to do with Bil Nick's exhortations about chasing glory and taking risks while aiming as high as you possibly can. For me, ENIC have miserably failed to follow this ethos, preferring the lowest-cost, most risk-free option they can get away with every time.
B) - I love seeing Kane, Bentaleb and Mason in the side - particularly Kane and Mason as they're known Spurs lads, and that creates a bond between fans and players that is vanishingly rare these days. However, I also think there is a compact made between a chairman and a manager who agrees to bring through youth players, one that indicates that while the manager is happy to use the youth academy to its full potential, the requests that he does make for players he sees as key to his system and his chances of success have to be pursued with utmost urgency by the chairman, as that request implies that the manager doesn't see other players as capable of filling that role as effectively as his first-choice targets. The whole basis of a youth-based system that also generates success revolves around this concept, the concept that marries high-class players with home-grown talents to create a great side.
I think a youth-based system at Spurs is ripe for endless frustration and recriminations, because I don't trust Levy to hold up his end of the bargain with Poch when it comes to chasing top players, and he's proven absolutely unwilling to make any sort of effort to provide Poch with the players he wants, a fact best exemplified by that ludicrous, cowardly, indefensible solitary bid he threw at Schneiderlin before quickly running away and shrugging his shoulders at Poch, mouthing 'see? I tried.'
C) - We are constantly in the top six, and that is our ceiling under ENIC, a ceiling they are happy to see us float at. Success is a pleasant surprise, but not at all something they're prepared to chase, for fear that they'd have to put their money where their mouths are, a no doubt terrifying proposition for Levy and his dear boss. Again, if Kane and Eriksen get injured and we lose the CC final as a result of not having adequate replacements for them, I'll be utterly gutted and disconsolate: however, I'll also feel a tiny bit relieved that at least the defenders of our chairman can't pretend that he's got any ambition anymore, as proven by that sequence of events.
We will find the cheapest possible replacements for Poch's first choices, and Levy will laugh and tell him to get on with it when he protests that injustice.
And this is a stolidly realistic conclusion, mate. You will be disappointed if you expect ambition or major transfers from our chairman now. So don't.
I think we spent more than that on Lamela. And yes, I think they were major transfers.
Do I think we will see similar ones now, or in the future? No. If Levy is serious about this youth-team based policy now, and Poch is crazy enough to agree to this knowing Levy's penchant for the cheap option (which will inevitably lead to Poch having to play youth players where he doesn't want to, as Levy snarls at having to spend money on a player he sees as unnecessary), then we're likely done with those types of transfers. Even when we do inevitably end up selling Lloris and Eriksen - Onomah can take over Eriksen's role if necessary, and cheap young goalkeepers are a dime a dozen nowadays, so why take a risk when it isn't necessary?
That is the danger of transitioning to a youth based recruitment system - it requires all sides to have trust in each other and in the personnel at the top to do what's best for both the immediate situation (managerial ambitions, targets, etcetera) and the longer term. I don't trust Levy, and I think a manager who trusts Levy is an utter, utter fool given AVB's revalations and his past behaviour. So I can't see it coming off. Which genuinely galls me, given how much I enjoy watching Kane, Mason, Bentaleb et al.
Arsenal embarked on this policy with a board and a manager who had led the club to an unbeaten season, titles, cups and a CL final in the years they'd been in charge. We are proposing to undertake this policy with Daniel Levy, he of the cheap option and one CC (at the time of writing) to his name, and Poch, with a few seasons in management under his belt.
It isn't going to go as well as it did at Arsenal, and if you remember the anger and bile that Wenger and the board endured as fans saw stars sold and replaced with youth options...that is a frightening prospect.
I think you have a point, but are so far to the right as to seem extremist in your views which therefore dilates them. Taking comfort from losing the CC as to prove people wrong, seriously cant you see that maybe you need to step back from the edge.
We have spent money on Lamela Soldado etc, the reason we are trusting in youth is luck and deperation as the purchasing model FAILED, not because Levy was being tight and didnt fancy a gamble. It wasn't a case of Levy being a skin-flint it was a case of us getting lucky / the youth setup bearing fruits. I listened to an interview with Ehiogu a while ago and was impressed and hopeful we would start producing.
If the youth hadnt come through this year, we would be 6 places lower in the league, with a load of imported "semi stars" and the bond between club and fans even further apart after the sales of Dawson, Sandro etc etc.
Many have said before, the players wont come generally to us, it can be a chicken and egg situation as you cant get into Champs League to attract the players, therefore to attract more players. Best Emirates Marketing Project could get at beginning was Robinho for 30mil, they couldn't get the aguero's until later.
Sanchez and Lamela cost around the same cash (diff wages) - that shows the issue in every way.
Criticism of what we did and didnt bid for who is pointless as we dont know the facts, its easy to say we didnt try when we dont know whats happened behind the scenes. Hulk, Moutinho etc are hardly ripping up the world at the moment, so maybe that wasnt a bad choice in the end.
The support base is obviously split and dividing further (Not to say you are).
But we seem to have the boo'ers who seem to sit in the stands calling everybody a C***, players, chairman, manager whoever, as we should be winning x or y. When our history doesn't support such expectation/
Those of us that are becoming increasing sick of having to put up with it and would rather, sing, and take a more balanced long term view in the hope that eventually we do a Athletic Madrid.
I think you are going to be in for a few very unhappy years, which unfortunately means that the rest of us will by having to listen to the boo'ing and abuse (again not pointing fingers). With the stadium i very much expect us not to go splashing cash, although as we always seem to be transfer even then maybe it will just be status quo in terms of net spend.
Dubai you change yur argument to suit your agenda. You justify man us lack of spending because they're abive us and clearly going somewhere, yet also critisise us for not spending being above Liverpool,who you also justified font spending g as they're below us but in the past they've spent some money.... It doesn't make sense.
All three clubs should be annoyed to be honest. All three have looked weak and need to improve. The difference is we haven't spent near 200m like Man U, or have a settled manager and system like Liverpool. And we're still in it. I'm annoyed we didn't sign anyone, but just look at the activity, barely anything happened, it's not a tottenham problem. The exess youre blowing this up is what's destroying the good points you do have.
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) for talking about the summer 2013 window at length, so I'll just leave that particular topic by saying that even in the window during which our best ever PL player was sold for a world record fee....the manager still ended up with four players he didn't want, because they were either a) the 'value' option Levy ran for, or b) the 'long term value' option that AVB presumably wanted nothing to do with. 
