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Transfer Rumour Thread

whatever your opinion on Levy Dubai, surely you can see that we generally break even on transfer deals - so with that in mind i don't understand that fear of selling a big name youth product and banking the cash as it doesn't tie in with what we have seen in the past. go back to when the club was turning over more money than it was spending we always had a negative net transfer spend each season which would bring our overall net spend as a business to more or less breaking even. so if we're going to base opinions on what has gone before you would have to come to the conclusion that in the future any big sale would see the money reinvested in the squad (or other areas of the club) - otherwise you'd be predicting that Levy would do something he has never done before...

We have a negative net spend, the second lowest (or lowest, not sure now) of all PL teams over the last five years. I have no doubt that statistic will only get more stark as the transition to an academy-based system gathers steam (if Poch is genuinely serious about imposing it, as he seems to be). I also honestly don't know if we have kept the money we've accrued within the club: the last accounts for 2012-2013 show a profit of 10.5 million pounds excluding player trading (on which we made a further hefty profit), and prior to taxation. I'd like to give Levy the benefit of the doubt on that at least, but it does make me wonder. Plus the accounts for the 2013-2014 season aren't out yet, a season when we made a further profit on transfer deals and saw the revenue from the broadcast deal begin, a process which would only have intensified this summer, when we made another profit on player trading.
 
what's 10m - 5% of our turnover? little more maybe, 6/7%

Excluding player trading, on which we made a larger profit, I think. 10 million is also the single derisory bid we reluctantly made for Schneiderlin before scarpering away in glee when Southampton predictably turned us down flat. Not insignificant, that particular number.
 
edited my post before you replied...

does the club have to make sure it spends exactly the right amount in the transfer windows each season to match, what will at that time be, our projected income as a business for the financial year? seems a bit unrealistic to me and not in any way enough scope to base predictions on for the future, not in comparison to their entire ownership of the club anyway.

that's without getting in to the whole stadium build issue and the importance of having healthy finances when trying to secure bank loans/sponsorship deals etc
 
This will lead to an interesting situation going forward, I think. On the one hand, we'll all celebrate when a Spurs lad becomes an established first-team regular: however, we'll also see those same lads sold for large amounts of money. When that happens, replacing that lad with another academy player will mean a tremendous profit generated overall.

Now, there is absolutely no chance that we'll spend that profit on first-choice players that Poch wants (although we'll probably couch it in terms of 'our first choice targets were unavailable' to make it seem less like a cop-out to the fans), so we'll probably see bigger profits in the windows going forward, should we transition to a youth team-based recruitment system. So it will be an interesting situation , to see what new and no doubt innovative methods Levy will come up with to justify not spending that money, and whether the fans will accept those methods. Wenger got away with it, but he (and Arsenal's board) still ended up with an awful lot of anger directed at them for the profits and years of stagnation from 2006 onwards: this despite Wenger being the most successful manager in L'****'s history, and **** regularly being in the CL during that period. Somehow, I doubt Levy with his one League Cup and his Saha+Nelsen antics will get quite as much leeway.




One lives in hope, I suppose. Realistically, however, our best chance is that our academy contains many more Kanes and Masons: luckily, I think it does.

I think there is absolutely zero chance we will stop buying "end product" players

I think the difference is we can expect 3-4 players in the team from the academy, and to paraphrase Poch, when we have a positional need, AND a matching quality young player in that position exist in the Academy, then we will give priority to the Academy player (which is a different perspective than previous where the Academy player had to prove they were better than an expensive already purchased player).

It should help us keep our costs overall down, and my hope would be instead of three or four 15-17M players, we buy 1-2 more expensive (better quality) players
 
edited my post before you replied...

does the club have to make sure it spends exactly the right amount in the transfer windows each season to match, what will at that time be, our projected income as a business for the financial year? seems a bit unrealistic to me and not in any way enough scope to base predictions on for the future, not in comparison to their entire ownership of the club anyway.

that's without getting in to the whole stadium build issue and the importance of having healthy finances when trying to secure bank loans/sponsorship deals etc

Yes, it is unrealistic to expect the club to spend exactly what it is projected to earn. Hence, the club have probably decided not to have a net spend at all, or even a break-even spend, preferring instead to put us above Burnley (I think) in 19th on the table of PL net spenders over the last five years, with operating and player trading profits to boot.

In any case, that wasn't the thrust of my initial point. The thrust of my initial point was that a period of academy youngsters being used prominently and austerity imposed upon the club (along with record player profits) will only be accepted if there is genuine trust at all levels, between the manager who has to put his faith in youngsters over transfer targets, the chairman who handles all the money, and the fans who expect to see both forward progress and home-grown youngsters making it in our colours. The fans in particular need to trust that he knows what he's doing, and trust that the chairman will act in a considered way to provide the manager with as much backing as he needs to get the players he feels can't be produced by the academy.

A manager like Arsene Wenger was routinely derided for going down this route, and that's with having a considerate board who trusted him implicitly. And this is the same Wenger who led Arsenal to the best times they've ever had. Penny-pinching Levy, his boss in the yacht and Poch: Spurs fans are going to be asked to implicitly trust that all of them are compromising with each other and using the ever larger profits made on player sales (Due to the academy replacement system) to get what we really need. The same Levy who came up with Nelsen-Saha during a title-chasing run, and of whom several former managers have had less than positive things to say. The same boss in the yacht who will walk away with a tremendous profit regardless of what happens to us in the interim between now and our sale. And Poch, who is likely to be subsequently asked to trust the academy to a degree that even he probably won't be comfortable with.

The point is, I don't think Spurs fans will have nearly as much patience as Arsenal fans, given our motley upper management and their track records compared to those of the Arsenal board and Wenger. I don't think they'll be very comfortable with even larger profits being made in transfer windows and not being used, despite the happiness they'll get from seeing Spurs lads on the field. Not just malcontents like me, but regular Spurs fans as well. And that doesn't bode well for club harmony. So, if Poch is genuinely serious about utilising the academy to its full potential, then we've interesting times ahead, is my point.
 
Yes, it is unrealistic to expect the club to spend exactly what it is projected to earn. Hence, the club have probably decided not to have a net spend at all, or even a break-even spend, preferring instead to put us above Burnley (I think) in 19th on the table of PL net spenders over the last five years, with operating and player trading profits to boot.

In any case, that wasn't the thrust of my initial point. The thrust of my initial point was that a period of academy youngsters being used prominently and austerity imposed upon the club (along with record player profits) will only be accepted if there is genuine trust at all levels, between the manager who has to put his faith in youngsters over transfer targets, the chairman who handles all the money, and the fans who expect to see both forward progress and home-grown youngsters making it in our colours. The fans in particular need to trust that he knows what he's doing, and trust that the chairman will act in a considered way to provide the manager with as much backing as he needs to get the players he feels can't be produced by the academy.

A manager like Arsene Wenger was routinely derided for going down this route, and that's with having a considerate board who trusted him implicitly. And this is the same Wenger who led Arsenal to the best times they've ever had. Penny-pinching Levy, his boss in the yacht and Poch: Spurs fans are going to be asked to implicitly trust that all of them are compromising with each other and using the ever larger profits made on player sales (Due to the academy replacement system) to get what we really need. The same Levy who came up with Nelsen-Saha during a title-chasing run, and of whom several former managers have had less than positive things to say. The same boss in the yacht who will walk away with a tremendous profit regardless of what happens to us in the interim between now and our sale. And Poch, who is likely to be subsequently asked to trust the academy to a degree that even he probably won't be comfortable with.

The point is, I don't think Spurs fans will have nearly as much patience as Arsenal fans, given our motley upper management and their track records compared to those of the Arsenal board and Wenger. I don't think they'll be very comfortable with even larger profits being made in transfer windows and not being used, despite the happiness they'll get from seeing Spurs lads on the field. Not just malcontents like me, but regular Spurs fans as well. And that doesn't bode well for club harmony. So, if Poch is genuinely serious about utilising the academy to its full potential, then we've interesting times ahead, is my point.

Wenger's problem is he's ****ing blind ...

- No one has issue with him using younger players (he gets tons of kudos for that, even when his side played us and we had more youth players)

The issue with Wenger is he lost sight of balance

- Is there anyone in the world other than him and Sneezy that doesn't know his keeping options are ****?
- When last did they have a real DM option with physical presence?
- You buy Ozil, but won't take back Fibreglass?

The issue with Scum's spend is very clear

- they don't have a targeted purchasing policy to address specific weak points
- The board's mandate to Wenger is quite obviously (and they actually tweeted something in that direction) to win the 4th place trophy and the money that comes with it
- there is clearly not desire to make the next level spend required to get higher to 4th (we could be accused of that re getting to 4th)
 
Wenger's problem is he's ****ing blind ...

- No one has issue with him using younger players (he gets tons of kudos for that, even when his side played us and we had more youth players)

The issue with Wenger is he lost sight of balance

- Is there anyone in the world other than him and Sneezy that doesn't know his keeping options are ****?
- When last did they have a real DM option with physical presence?
- You buy Ozil, but won't take back Fibreglass?

The issue with Scum's spend is very clear

- they don't have a targeted purchasing policy to address specific weak points
- The board's mandate to Wenger is quite obviously (and they actually tweeted something in that direction) to win the 4th place trophy and the money that comes with it
- there is clearly not desire to make the next level spend required to get higher to 4th (we could be accused of that re getting to 4th)

:ross:

I largely agree with all of that, but it is beside the point. Wenger remains the most successful manager that club has ever had, and he didn't escape the anger of Arsenal fans who, as the seasons wore on after 2006, became increasingly tired of using youth products and began demanding big signings so they could compete again. Btw, I think Wenger's loosened up on spending recently, as has their board: they recently indicated cash reserves of 100 million + that were available to spend should Wenger need it, and Wenger himself has gone out and bought the likes of Sanchez and Ozil in recent seasons, racking up large net spends in the last two windows. He's still blind and is a terrible judge of team strengths and weaknesses, but that's not in itself a proof for the allegation that he isn't spending: he is now.

Anyway, the main point is that a youth-based system needs the fans to trust in both the manager and the chairman, and the manager himself to trust the chairman to pursue those players he feels absolutely cannot be procured through the academy. I don't think that trust exists, given Levy's track record and the words of the likes of AVB and Harry: and I don't think the fans will afford nearly as much trust to Levy (he of Saha+Nelsen fame) than Arsenal fans did with their own board and manager, which will ultimately draw Poch into the caustic scenario as well. Simply put, asking the fans to trust Levy to spend the large profits an academy-based system will generate on players the manager really wants is not going to work imo, not now.
 
See this is where i disagree Dubai - if what you're saying is we can't expect Levy to spend the money available (that being within a break even policy overall) As in my previous post you only have to look at the overall trend of his ownership to see that is exactly what he does - of course there will be seasons where it ends up we spend less, just like there have been seasons where we have spent more.

you can isolate it to the last 5 years if you wish but i think that would be harsh considering we are planning a stadium build, which skews things overall as the clubs finances need to be in tip top shape should we wish to get bank loans and sponsorship - showing we can compete in the top 6 whilst breaking even/turning a small profit i would imagine is something the banks/businesses would deem a necessity when considering us as an investment. I mean take out the years the stadium has been in an advanced (lol) state and then look at our overall transfer policy/business model - consistent windows where we spent more than we made, that to me goes some way to suggest that when the club makes money as a business we don't rely on breaking even on transfers.

It's funny you highlight Arsenal fans and their patience/faith with the board considering they have been turning a profit for over a decade now whilst not investing that money in the team as they slipped further and further away from those above - the way you present your arguments on Levy leads me to assume that in similar circumstances you'd have been baying for blood (seeings as Levy is actually reinvesting money at a higher rate than the Arsenal board have been over the last 10 years)
 
Tottenham Hotspur boss Mauricio Pochettino has hinted at his future transfer policy in the London Evening Standard.

The Tottenham boss has suggested that he will never sign a player if he doesn’t feel they can come forward and offer an improvement on the players already in his academy system.

“If we have in the talent in the academy, we need to give the opportunity. Why find players outside the club?” said the boss.

“We won’t give opportunities to those we don’t believe have the potential to play in the first team, but if they do, I prefer to give them the chance. For me, there are many players here who have that potential.”

It's the right thing to say and all but he's not going to come out and say "So the academy players on the whole aren't good enough and most likely won't be so we'll have to invest heavily"

It's the same spiel that every manager says and it goes both ways, we lap statements like this up and then are raging when we haven't bought the 30m superstar that would complete the team
 
i haven't seen quotes of that nature from previous managers tbh

except for *braces self* Sherwood maybe...
 
In fairness the quotes aren't by any means ridiculous, they do make sense.

Maybe there's more notice of them because of the current academy presence in the squad recently
 
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i haven't seen quotes of that nature from previous managers tbh

except for *braces self* Sherwood maybe...

I agree.

Most managers harp on about the need to bring players in to improve the squad. ( and the risk that goes with that)

Poch has laid the gauntlet down to the academy - the chance is yours to take. Prove you are as good as 'johnny foreigner' from the Eredivise
 
See this is where i disagree Dubai - if what you're saying is we can't expect Levy to spend the money available (that being within a break even policy overall) As in my previous post you only have to look at the overall trend of his ownership to see that is exactly what he does - of course there will be seasons where it ends up we spend less, just like there have been seasons where we have spent more.

you can isolate it to the last 5 years if you wish but i think that would be harsh considering we are planning a stadium build, which skews things overall as the clubs finances need to be in tip top shape should we wish to get bank loans and sponsorship - showing we can compete in the top 6 whilst breaking even/turning a small profit i would imagine is something the banks/businesses would deem a necessity when considering us as an investment. I mean take out the years the stadium has been in an advanced (lol) state and then look at our overall transfer policy/business model - consistent windows where we spent more than we made, that to me goes some way to suggest that when the club makes money as a business we don't rely on breaking even on transfers.

It's funny you highlight Arsenal fans and their patience/faith with the board considering they have been turning a profit for over a decade now whilst not investing that money in the team as they slipped further and further away from those above - the way you present your arguments on Levy leads me to assume that in similar circumstances you'd have been baying for blood (seeings as Levy is actually reinvesting money at a higher rate than the Arsenal board have been over the last 10 years)

Fair enough, mate. As for Arsenal, we embarked on that model five years ago, imo: Levy's transparent fibs about the stadium not affecting transfer activity were proven to be just that, utter fibs.One way or another. And I expect our scrimping to intensify the closer that thing is to being built (entirely via commercial income and the club's money, but hey, whatever, at least the f*cking thing will go up at the end of it). And I don't consider Levy to have earned anywhere near the faith that the Arsenal board (and Wenger) earned prior to embarking on their stadium project: correspondingly, my trust in him actually holding up the manager-fans-chairman compact that comes with a youth team-based model is nil. So, to answer your suggestions, I don't think there's a need to extrapolate my reaction in similar circumstances: we ARE in similar circumstances, and have been for a long time: the only difference is that they had success and generous owners prior to moving to their stadium, while we're being piloted into it by jolly old ENIC, those scions of ambition and on-field success, and correspondingly, our austerity is going to be even more of a case of scrimping and laughing in Poch's face when he hopefully asks for a specific player transfer-wise. It just took me a long time to realise it, is all.

And, also, I'm not mad. Well, not true: I'm currently still outraged, but it's gradually subsiding to be replaced with a sort of resigned, cold disdain when it comes to our higher-ups beyond Poch. Give it a while and it'll even morph to utter indifference, one way or another. :p

Edit: Or, alternatively, I could end up even more of ' ....one-eyed marauding bundersnark, ploughing your furrow deeper and deeper, moaning and grimacing as you push and thrust and gasp harder and harder into the depths of the morass.' Thanks for that, Bullet. :ross:
 
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Well no there are other differences like the mass amounts of money Arsenal weren't spending each season compared to the relative loose change we're scrimping on. Also if you were to go back beyond the 5 years i believe there was a general good feeling about the direction we were going in and the way Levy backed his managers/DoFs - at that point we were spending more in transfers than we were making, considerably so iirc (relative to our position anyways) so whilst we weren't on the same level as Wengers Arsenal prior The Emirates build we had ourselves been through a steep upward curve over a good few seasons and the future was looking bright - so i think in a like for like comparrison with Arsenal you have to take things from the point austerity began as well as keeping in mind the gap between the two clubs at those moments. Arsenal coming off the back of Wengers golden period - ourselves moving from relegation/lower half bores to best of the rest and back in Europe and a trophy in the bag...
 
Well no there are other differences like the mass amounts of money Arsenal weren't spending each season compared to the relative loose change we're scrimping on. Also if you were to go back beyond the 5 years i believe there was a general good feeling about the direction we were going in and the way Levy backed his managers/DoFs - at that point we were spending more in transfers than we were making, considerably so iirc (relative to our position anyways) so whilst we weren't on the same level as Wengers Arsenal prior The Emirates build we had ourselves been through a steep upward curve over a good few seasons and the future was looking bright - so i think in a like for like comparrison with Arsenal you have to take things from the point austerity began

Yeah, I did mention that. Our austerity began right around the time that Levy's bad decision-making ruined any residual value ENIC had as custodians of this club, imo. Five or so years ago. I've consistently maintained that there is some credit due to ENIC before that period, so.......hopefuly not in bundersnark territory there.
 
Right so on this particular point then you must agree that prior to the recent period of austerity Levy was doing a good job? Oversaw a consistent upward curve in our fortunes, establishing us as a top 6 club and was reinvesting the clubs money in the team. The 'problems' started when there wasn't surplus cash to fund negative net transfer windows year in year - so going back to the initial topic, with that in mind - why do you think he won't reinvest the money once there is surplus cash again? (Stadium finished/bigger revenue streams)

Do you think in that instance we'd see the club posting high profits at the expense of investing in the team?
 
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