Tottenham vs Scum COC OMT

[thfcsteff]

Answers in bold below

This is insane, Steff. I like the man (Poch, that is), but crediting him with doing his damn job and calling that 'commitment'? Doing some Saturday-morning grunt work is equivalent to feeling the passion for the club that the fans show together? And he's not doing all this out of the goodness of his damn heart,he's doing this because we are the biggest club he's ever managed and lay him a higher salary than he's ever managed to wrangle before.

Salary-big club-whatever. Look at what he's done that a whole bunch of other 'more talented managers' have NOT done. Shed us of dead wood. Actually DEVELOPED SOME YOUNG TALENT. Looked to build a base of continuity THROUGH the club. Yeah. 'Some Saturday morning grunt-work'...so easy that three successive managers failed to do it.


Does he understand our club? Does he know the significance of the NLD to the fans who pay his damn salary?

Well he fudging drew and won it last season so I would, in fact, say yes!


If he does, playing a side like that is inexcusable, especially since, when manager of Espanyol, he played the same team against Barca in the cup and then a few days later in the league - he knew what the derby meant, since he's played in if himself. I really hope he knows what the NLD means, because his approach yesterday showed no indication that he does.


Fair point re Bale, although Plaid Cymru could go all SNP at some point, you never know. As for the derbies, I'm not saying you aren't hurting, mate. I know you are. And I know you're far more experienced a fan than I am, since I'm in my late twenties and have never seen an NLD live. But honestly, I think you're beibg a bit short-sighted and unsympathetic, and you're underestimating what yesterday meant to the fans who expected to see a strong team and a push for the trophy we came close to winning last year.

My football vision is fine thanks. If you mean I have failed to grasp the potential significance of winning the league cup, then perhaps. Yes. Am I being unsympathetic to supporters who allow their entire fudging seasons to go crashing around their ankles because the ressies handed these tossers a win? Guilty as charged. Let's see what happens in November. Come to think of it, let's see what happens Saturday...

 

[DubaiSpur]

Answers in bold below

Answers in bold below

Replies:

1) well, firstly, you came up with the term 'grunt work': I didn't know you meant the work he'd done with the youth. Regarding that youth effort, though, I don't think you're giving Sherwood enough credit, since he was the one who ran the youth program long before Poch got involved, and brought through quite a few oc today's first-teamers. Also, previous managers a) didn't get the looong contract that Poch did, and b) assumed they'd be given money to spend, something I am now beginning to suspect may not have been the case with Poch.

2) He was unbeaten against them last season, true. But why, if he knew the significance of the NLD, did he do what he did yesterday? Or do only league derbies count?

3) Yes, I do think you're being a bit myopic when it comes to league cup and its significance to us, but I also think you're reading too much into the fan reaction to this defeat. People are upset, yes. They don't want this to happen again, absolutely. But I don't think they've written the season off, or anything: they just don't want Poch to play a weakened side in a derby again. And I'm in full agreement with them on that.

 

[indianspur]

This isn't about the League Cup and its status.
This was was an evening kick off North London Derby. People have been talking about it and looking forward all week to it.
It doesn't matter what competition it was in.

this in a nutshell

I can understand rotating the squad for the cup games, all clubs do it to some extent, but this was a NLD, at home, and Poch got the team selection all wrong. We should have been full strength, no doubts about it.

 

[Baleforce]

I guess he means the Europa League is no prize.

we're gonna be in that anyway, what I mean is it doesn't carry a CL place

 

[Baleforce]

What do you mean by prize in this context?

CL qualification

 

[Baleforce]

I think we should all just take a step back and see the bigger picture, I'd rather a manager that "understands the game" than one who "understands the club", logically there is no reason to approach a game differently because of which shirt they are wearing, I'd rather a manager coldly calculates over a course of the season than place too much importance on one game for emotional reasons

I'm happy he put out a side that he though could win, the stats and the performance suggest that was the case, we made mistakes and lost, thats football, I don't think Arsenal took it any more or less seriously than we did

 

[Robspur12]

Replies:

1) well, firstly, you came up with the term 'grunt work': I didn't know you meant the work he'd done with the youth. Regarding that youth effort, though, I don't think you're giving Sherwood enough credit, since he was the one who ran the youth program long before Poch got involved, and brought through quite a few oc today's first-teamers. Also, previous managers a) didn't get the looong contract that Poch did, and b) assumed they'd be given money to spend, something I am now beginning to suspect may not have been the case with Poch.

2) He was unbeaten against them last season, true. But why, if he knew the significance of the NLD, did he do what he did yesterday? Or do only league derbies count?

3) Yes, I do think you're being a bit myopic when it comes to league cup and its significance to us, but I also think you're reading too much into the fan reaction to this defeat. People are upset, yes. They don't want this to happen again, absolutely. But I don't think they've written the season off, or anything: they just don't want Poch to play a weakened side in a derby again. And I'm in full agreement with them on that.

Dubai Poch does get the NLD. If you have any doubts about that then watch last year's one at the lane again. The moment when he high fives Bentaleb after Kane's goal says it all. He is paid though, like any manager and unlike any fan to look past any individual game and consider the so called bigger picture. Just like Wenger. He gets the NLD too but also rotated his squad. That could have gone wrong had Harry Kane's overhead gone in. But no one would have accused him of not caring surely? We cannot afford to get tanked on Sunday AVB style not now and we have several key players injured or just coming back from injury. Now I am not saying that it is acceptable to lose the NLD especially at home, but we have limitations to our squad, players who are already tired, had one less day rest than the scum and failed to adequately strengthen the striker dept in the summer these are all factors in Poch's decisions. He is not a miracle worker. The reality is Arsenalhave a better squad than us at the moment. I am sure he is hurting this morning.

 

[Vega]

Apparently there was a cab for Tom Carroll outside the Lane last night, driver was asked where he was taking him...................The Championship was the reply.

Boom Boom.

Queue those that think he had an outstanding game and looked at home at that level.

 

[thfcsteff]

Replies:

1) well, firstly, you came up with the term 'grunt work': I didn't know you meant the work he'd done with the youth. Regarding that youth effort, though, I don't think you're giving Sherwood enough credit, since he was the one who ran the youth program long before Poch got involved, and brought through quite a few oc today's first-teamers. Also, previous managers a) didn't get the looong contract that Poch did, and b) assumed they'd be given money to spend, something I am now beginning to suspect may not have been the case with Poch.

2) He was unbeaten against them last season, true. But why, if he knew the significance of the NLD, did he do what he did yesterday? Or do only league derbies count?

3) Yes, I do think you're being a bit myopic when it comes to league cup and its significance to us, but I also think you're reading too much into the fan reaction to this defeat. People are upset, yes. They don't want this to happen again, absolutely. But I don't think they've written the season off, or anything: they just don't want Poch to play a weakened side in a derby again. And I'm in full agreement with them on that.

NOT JUST YOUTH but the entire structure and attitude of the club!!! You know, scouts who work with the coaches, weeding out the 70%ers, that sort of thing...and arrrrrrgggggghhhhhh!!!!! Bellend did some good stuff BUT Inglethorpe and McDermott are the key men. Why haven't you mentioned them???? Secondly, great, let's call me myopic and be done with this back and forth. Who are 'they'? Are 'they' a specific 'group' or lobby'? What is 'their' criteria? Honestly, I sometimes think 'they deserve' a good cheeky chappie who tells people to run baht a bit. As for point number (2) above, you know the potential answer, it's been laid out many times in this thread so why ask again mate? OK, I'm out mate...

 

[iggyfog]

At the game last night - season ticket holder in the North Stand.

As soon as I saw the team come out, I sort of lost interest slightly. Whilst I always want us to beat the goons, it didn't feel like the team were us up for it when we bring out fazio as center back. It sort of felt like that their crap team was better than our crap team. Whilst it is annoying and I would be way more upset and heartbroken if it was in the league.

Flamini's goals did irritate me though. The second one especially, the whole team was drawn over to Sanchez and left him unmarked. It is like the whole left side of our team vanished. Haven't seen the replay on tv, sort of refuse to, but interested in what tactically went wrong.

 

[90sSpursBook]

I've been thinking (and posting) a lot about expectations and I want I want from Spurs. My views may be shared by others or may not but one thing I've been clear on is that I expect us to push for trophies and to embark on cup runs as this season specifically, the prospects of a Top 4 finish seem very unlikley (as seems to be the mood from within the club).

The League Cup is our best opportunity to win a trophy, or at least to reach Wembley; it is mostly played before xmas, there are fewer rounds and the best sides generally won't prioritise it. Thus the League Cup should have been our priority for the first third of the season. Added to that we were drawn to play Arsenal - A North London Derby.

I was very underwhelmed by the team when it was picked; Poch has to take the blame for this defeat - had Toby/Jan, Lloris, Alli and Son been picked we'd have won comfortably.

 

[thfcsteff]

At the game last night - season ticket holder in the North Stand.

As soon as I saw the team come out, I sort of lost interest slightly. Whilst I always want us to beat the goons, it didn't feel like the team were us up for it when we bring out fazio as center back. It sort of felt like that their crap team was better than our crap team. Whilst it is annoying and I would be way more upset and heartbroken if it was in the league.

Flamini's goals did irritate me though. The second one especially, the whole team was drawn over to Sanchez and left him unmarked. It is like the whole left side of our team vanished. Haven't seen the replay on tv, sort of refuse to, but interested in what tactically went wrong.

Glad you mentioned this. Rose was ball-watching!!!!!! Others too. Lack of concentration that I'd rather see last night than in (say) November. We have to know who's good for this squad. BTW, it was probably Rose's one mistake and not solely his either, so not coating him format...but as Fazio aimlessly lolloped the ball up in the air, I noticed they'd all frozen and was not happy. Surprised too that Vorm has not received more grief for it; he had a CLEAR site of the ball as I remember it, on his near post too. But frankly, I'd say tactically we simply lost focus. Have to give the blind one some meagre credit here, the Sanchez sub changed things, and I would hope Poch learnt too as for me, Townsend had found his way into the game (finally) and looked well up for it. I would not have subbed him at that point anyway...

 

[balesleftboot]

So true. It's pathetic when people say. Oh happy to be out the cup. fudge off!!

We don't win trophies where we can afford to fight on more Important fronts. We need to play our strongest team in every cup. The league is where we should rest players. We aren't going to finish top 4 So it's just about winning a trophy

Absoultely, the game is about the glory. I remember Arsenal putting out a reserve side against us in the League back in 1993 just before the FA Cup semi final which they won. That was a much better time to be a football fan.

This obsession with the Champions League is boring, in my opinion the tournament should only be for Champions anyway! maybe that would put a stop to this top 4 obsession and we focused on actually trying to win things.

 

[Papercut]

So true. It's pathetic when people say. Oh happy to be out the cup. fudge off!!

We don't win trophies where we can afford to fight on more Important fronts. We need to play our strongest team in every cup. The league is where we should rest players. We aren't going to finish top 4 So it's just about winning a trophy

I imagine it's a coping mechanism for some and there to offer a modicum of comfort following the defeat (particularly if they are also sporting a wasted hangover the following morning).

 

[parklane1]

I came out from the game last night tinkled off once as once again we had thrown away a chance of actually winning a trophy ( after all that is what sport is supposed to be about), we sent out a weakened side so that we could save our best players for a game against City in the chase for a dream of making the top four. Now I am normally a optimistic fan who would rather try and be positive ( instead of always expecting the worse) but even I relize that it is highly unlikely we will finish in the top four ( this season anyway).
.

I support Poch and there are things I have seen this season which give me hope for the season but there is no doubt in my mind that he picked the wrong side last night, we fielded at least 6 reserves ( Vorm, Tripper, Fazio, Wimmer, Carroll, Townsend) in the blind vision of chasing the top four instead of trying to win a honour, ( unfortunately imo this is also what some fans want to see as well). The worst thing about this is that there was nothing (in 'what was in all honesty a crap game) between the two sides and IF we had gone for our best team we in all probability come out as winners with the hope of Wembley still in our thoughts.

I have calmed down a bit from last night but in all honesty I am getting fed up with this occupation we seem to have with concentrating on the dream of the top four, I love Spurs and have never faltered from that in the 50 odd years I have been following them all over the place ( cost me a bloody fortune and several good job options), however I am begining to hate football and the way it has turned out. We have two more chances of glory this season ( EL and FA cup) and I really hope that we send out our strongest teal in ALL those matches, unfortuately I will not hold my breath.



As for the game it was the worst I have seen this season and that was the same from both sides, I am not upset at how we played because that can happen to all teams but I am gutted that once again we surrended the chance of winning a trophy by naming the team we did, not slagging off any of the players because that is pointless ( imo) but we blew it. I have been lucky enough to have been at most of our trophy wins over the last 50 years and I would love to see us lift another one but this preoccupation in finishing among the losers ( top four) is making that hard to see.

 

[parklane1]

Just to add to my post above, I am not tinkled off about naming a weakened side against the Arse ( that seems to be the way some are reacting) no I am tinkled off we names a weakened side in a trophy we should be trying to win and it does not matter who we play I would still feel that way.

 

[GrimsbyYid]

So bizarre he though Kane and Eriksen could play that much, Alderwereld could play against Qarabag, but the whole back 5 needed changing... so bizarre. Even just Jan for Fazio would've changed that match.

I was there, it wasn't an amazing display, but we were the better team, but it was clear as anything that Vorm, Fazio, Carroll and Townsend are not close to good enough even for a squad position for me. But then if we didn't have so many injuries they maybe wouldn't have needed to play.

I thought we needed to put our first 11 out, for one game it wouldn't have made a difference. But i'm not one of those people who thinks beating arsenal is everything. I hate singing stand up o you hate arsenal when we're not playing with them, I hate the fixation on them, I want Spurs to do well far more than I want Arsenal to do badly.

 

[Seedy Ron]

Surprised too that Vorm has not received more grief for it; he had a CLEAR site of the ball as I remember it, on his near post too.

Deserves some grief for the first one (parry right onto the doorstep), but the second looked on TV just a good hit, was pretty central too. brick from Fazio of course.

I hope Mumorn will do the decent thing and not post again until he can be rid of that avatar.

 

[Baleforce]

It's not necessarily an issue of rest for those that were left out but a case of getting competitive time into those who came in

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

I'm gutted. Just got home from the match.

Also gutted to read how little respect a lot of posters have for this cup. Such a sad state of football in 2015 that this competition is looked upon with such contempt.

I remember 1998. I remember the disappointment in 2002 and the hysteria in 2008.

fudge football!

What? We came nowhere in 1998. We won it in 1999. Were the only trophy winners other than Yanited.