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*** Tottenham vs Arsenal NLD OMT ***

LemonadeMoney said:
https://www.skysports.com/watch/vid...ttenham-0-2-arsenal-premier-league-highlights

Both PEH and Sarr are to blame for the Partey shot and the second goal. Both times they both get drawn either too far forward, or too far back to pick up the shooter on the edge of the box. Positional indiscipline from both of them.
Watching that again, we had enough chances to win it 3-2.
Click to expand...
That first goal is horrendous.... What is the point in having 3 CBs if the left sided one isn't going to go out and help his wing back with the opposition's wide forward? Our wing backs should never get isolated one on one with us having 3 CBs, it is a massive failing. Lloris then does what Lloris does so often these days, throws a routine save for every other keeper in the PL into his own net.

Second goal.... We've got 3 CBs and all of them just run away from the ball. Absolutely no point in us having 3 CBs with none of them prepared to actually try to defend that situation. Also for the second goal, it is Sarr trying to press that causes the initial problem. Gives Arsenal an easy triangle to get the ball into their best attacking player in acres of space. Sarr needs to realise that Sessegnon has pushed ahead of Saka and Odegaard cannot be left in acres of space. Once Sarr had pressed and not won the ball we were then in trouble. At that point Dier needs to get out to Odegaard in the hope (though it should be 'know' by now if Conte's coaching is considered half decent) that Romero then comes narrower to stop the easy ball in behind.
 
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Raziel said:
The game was no where near the "schooling" the media and some (rightfully frustrated) fans are making it out to be

A draw would have been realistic, slightly towards us if we didn't gift them an own goal (zero threat in that play) and allow a pass into the net from >20 yards out
Click to expand...

I think it actually was. Arsenal could have been 3 goals up at HT and simply eased off in the second half, letting us have the ball and looking to hit us on the break as and when they could.
If Conte had done that i'm sure we'd have called it a tactical masterclass...haven't we often done in his time here when we have played the game Arsenal did?
 
LemonadeMoney said:
https://www.skysports.com/watch/vid...ttenham-0-2-arsenal-premier-league-highlights

Both PEH and Sarr are to blame for the Partey shot and the second goal. Both times they both get drawn either too far forward, or too far back to pick up the shooter on the edge of the box. Positional indiscipline from both of them.
Watching that again, we had enough chances to win it 3-2.
Click to expand...
For the goal both of them go to close down Partey way too far forward. They don't get to him and they leave a situation with 4 players running at our CBs. At least Sarr makes the effort to get back, PEH just jogs back.
If they let Partey have the ball, in his own half were there was no danger and stayed in shape the goal wouldn't have happened.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think Sess would be absolutely fine as a full back. I also think Regulion could come back and be absolutely fine as a standard full back. I agree though that we don't have a good enough partner for Romero to play with only 2 CBs, finding that player would be my highest priority in this transfer window.
Click to expand...

Agree for the most part, although I think we could play a with two Dier/Romero, if the correct CM played with them.

3 at the back is not a magic silver bullet some seem to think. The formation number-constellations are not worth squat without context. "A flat four" hardly exists any more the way it used to. If you look at a 4-3-3 and a 3-4-3 they may or may not look exactly the same, depending on the player instructions/player types.
Look at victims, drawn up in a classic 4-3-3, where their centerbacks split wide, and central midfielder dropping down between to form the back three, while their "full backs" push forward like wingers to create a front five. Compare that to the 3-4-3, where the back three is already formed, two central midfielders, and the wingbacks pushing up as wingers, making a front five.

You end up with the more or less identical attacking schematic drawing, with minor variations as to wether it is the backs or the attackers who utilize the half-spaces or goes outside as a general rule, or who drops and who goes.

Or you could go Pep, and tuck the backs inwards, and push the central midfielders outwards, you could make it loopsided, invert it, and you could probably put a glaze on it and barbeque it. The only one who does nothing at all apart from same old recipe is Conte. He has his formula, and he thinks damn it, it better work. Because it worked some years ago!

There is a lot to be said for Conte, but he is not very flexible or very innovative...
 
Finney Is Back said:
That first goal is horrendous.... What is the point in having 3 CBs if the left sided one isn't going to go out and help his wing back with the opposition's wide forward? Our wing backs should never get isolated one on one with us having 3 CBs, it is a massive failing. Lloris then does what Lloris does so often these days, throws a routine save for every other keeper in the PL into his own net.

Second goal.... We've got 3 CBs and all of them just run away from the ball. Absolutely no point in us having 3 CBs with none of them prepared to actually try to defend that situation. Also for the second goal, it is Sarr trying to press that causes the initial problem. Gives Arsenal an easy triangle to get the ball into their best attacking player in acres of space. Sarr needs to realise that Sessegnon has pushed ahead of Saka and Odegaard cannot be left in acres of space. Once Sarr had pressed and not won the ball we were then in trouble. At that point Dier needs to get out to Odegaard in the hope (though it should be 'know' by now if Conte's coaching is considered half decent) that Romero then comes narrower to stop the easy ball in behind.
Click to expand...
It's Romero that should have come out and closed Odegaard down. Dier is running back covering Nketiahs run and also is there if Saka takes on and beats Lenglet. Martinelli is the least dangerous in the break and Doherty is getting back to cover him leaving Romero free to close Odegaard. But sure we need to have some Dier blame for every goal...
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think Sess would be absolutely fine as a full back. I also think Regulion could come back and be absolutely fine as a standard full back. I agree though that we don't have a good enough partner for Romero to play with only 2 CBs, finding that player would be my highest priority in this transfer window.
Click to expand...
I can’t see conte ever changing
 
Finney Is Back said:
He's not costing us a goal a game at all.... We have 3 CBs and a midfield who are outnumbered. Whenever a team turns over the ball against us and plays quickly we're in trouble and our outnumbered midfield can get easily passed around, while our 3 CBs are generally standing there in a line doing nothing, 20 yards further back.
Click to expand...

Was it the villa game the guy who scored ran from gis own half 10 yards behind peh, could almost have tapped him on the shoulder, and scored with peh still not within 10 yards of him.
I need to ask which game it is because he does it every game.
 
DubSpur said:
For the goal both of them go to close down Partey way too far forward. They don't get to him and they leave a situation with 4 players running at our CBs. At least Sarr makes the effort to get back, PEH just jogs back.
If they let Partey have the ball, in his own half were there was no danger and stayed in shape the goal wouldn't have happened.
Click to expand...
Hojbjerg was already on Partey, Sarr had no need to move higher up the pitch to go towards Partey, with Sessegnon also high up the pitch that press from Sarr was suicidal. Whether PEH jogged or sprinted back there was going to make no difference. Once we have been exposed in the midfield Dier has to step out as the central of the 3 CBs but, alas, he is not a good enough defender to do this.
 
Finney Is Back said:
That first goal is horrendous.... What is the point in having 3 CBs if the left sided one isn't going to go out and help his wing back with the opposition's wide forward? Our wing backs should never get isolated one on one with us having 3 CBs, it is a massive failing. Lloris then does what Lloris does so often these days, throws a routine save for every other keeper in the PL into his own net.

Second goal.... We've got 3 CBs and all of them just run away from the ball. Absolutely no point in us having 3 CBs with none of them prepared to actually try to defend that situation. Also for the second goal, it is Sarr trying to press that causes the initial problem. Gives Arsenal an easy triangle to get the ball into their best attacking player in acres of space. Sarr needs to realise that Sessegnon has pushed ahead of Saka and Odegaard cannot be left in acres of space. Once Sarr had pressed and not won the ball we were then in trouble. At that point Dier needs to get out to Odegaard in the hope (though it should be 'know' by now if Conte's coaching is considered half decent) that Romero then comes narrower to stop the easy ball in behind.
Click to expand...

yep. There is a reason we let in so many goals. The days of having a steady back line with Toby and Verts are long gone. We have their backup playing now in Dier, and two other CBS who are still finding their feet. None dominate or seem to take control. But I think the 5 we played yesterday are the best options Conte has. He has to get more from them. And if available Paratici needs to get some upgrades in.
 
DubSpur said:
It's Romero that should have come out and closed Odegaard down. Dier is running back covering Nketiahs run and also is there if Saka takes on and beats Lenglet. Martinelli is the least dangerous in the break and Doherty is getting back to cover him leaving Romero free to close Odegaard. But sure we need to have some Dier blame for every goal...
Click to expand...
Dier is closer to Odegaard and if he comes out to stop Odegaard running into space then Romero can close the space in behind to try to stop the ball to Nketiah. Basically though we give up the midfield by having 3 CBs on the pitch even though those 3 CBs don't really seem to know how to defend in a 3.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Hojbjerg was already on Partey, Sarr had no need to move higher up the pitch to go towards Partey, with Sessegnon also high up the pitch that press from Sarr was suicidal. Whether PEH jogged or sprinted back there was going to make no difference. Once we have been exposed in the midfield Dier has to step out as the central of the 3 CBs but, alas, he is not a good enough defender to do this.
Click to expand...
PEH was on Partey? He didn't even get a tackle on him and was on the wrong side to make the tackle. He should've dropped. Sarr was worse stepping up.
And no, Dier shouldn't have stepped out, he was covering the run of Nketiah. If Dier steps out Saka has a simple pass to Nketiah in the centre of the box.
Romero is the free man and should've stepped out instead of standing with his hands behind his back doing nothing.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Dier is closer to Odegaard and if he comes out to stop Odegaard running into space then Romero can close the space in behind to try to stop the ball to Nketiah. Basically though we give up the midfield by having 3 CBs on the pitch even though those 3 CBs don't really seem to know how to defend in a 3.
Click to expand...
Romero is not close enough to Nketiah and on the wrong side to stop any ball coming into him. He needs to close Odegaard and leave Nketiah to Dier.
 
Junior19 said:
Agree for the most part, although I think we could play a with two Dier/Romero, if the correct CM played with them.

3 at the back is not a magic silver bullet some seem to think. The formation number-constellations are not worth squat without context. "A flat four" hardly exists any more the way it used to. If you look at a 4-3-3 and a 3-4-3 they may or may not look exactly the same, depending on the player instructions/player types.
Look at victims, drawn up in a classic 4-3-3, where their centerbacks split wide, and central midfielder dropping down between to form the back three, while their "full backs" push forward like wingers to create a front five. Compare that to the 3-4-3, where the back three is already formed, two central midfielders, and the wingbacks pushing up as wingers, making a front five.

You end up with the more or less identical attacking schematic drawing, with minor variations as to wether it is the backs or the attackers who utilize the half-spaces or goes outside as a general rule, or who drops and who goes.

Or you could go Pep, and tuck the backs inwards, and push the central midfielders outwards, you could make it loopsided, invert it, and you could probably put a glaze on it and barbeque it. The only one who does nothing at all apart from same old recipe is Conte. He has his formula, and he thinks damn it, it better work. Because it worked some years ago!

There is a lot to be said for Conte, but he is not very flexible or very innovative...
Click to expand...
The thought of Dier in a 2 man central defence again makes me shudder.

The difference between (e.g) victims's 4-3-3 and our 3-4-3 is that the midfield player who drops in is better on the ball than Eric Dier, who has poor control and average to weak passing ability.
 
Finney Is Back said:
The thought of Dier in a 2 man central defence again makes me shudder.

The difference between (e.g) victims's 4-3-3 and our 3-4-3 is that the midfield player who drops in is better on the ball than Eric Dier, who has poor control and average to weak passing ability.
Click to expand...
The difference is they have two top quality attacking FBs that are among the best passers and crossers of a ball in the league.
 
glasgowspur said:
Was it the villa game the guy who scored ran from gis own half 10 yards behind peh, could almost have tapped him on the shoulder, and scored with peh still not within 10 yards of him.
I need to ask which game it is because he does it every game.
Click to expand...
The guy who scored actually run from Kane and past Bissouma
I know you wanna blame PEH but that wasn’t him
 
Finney Is Back said:
The thought of Dier in a 2 man central defence again makes me shudder.

The difference between (e.g) victims's 4-3-3 and our 3-4-3 is that the midfield player who drops in is better on the ball than Eric Dier, who has poor control and average to weak passing ability.
Click to expand...
Pool just pass it wide and avoid the middle no matter how is playing centre mid
 
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