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***Tottenham Hotspur vs. Manchester United OMT***
- Thread starter Jurgen the German
- Start date
DubaiSpur
Jack Jull
Indeed, the sort of game that has "same old Spurs" written all over it...
Well, not quite. The Same Old Spurs would lose this 5-2 after leading 2-0 at half-time and then conceding a penalty that blatantly wasn't (yep, seven-odd years on and I'm *still* bitter about that game
). We'll probably get a draw, which is an improvement in terms of grit and determination over *that* Spurs. At the same time, that isn't as good as we need to be if we're going to conclusively break down the mental hoodoo we still have in clutch situations (imo). To do that would require an enormous amount of grit - the grit to win under the media spotlight, and keep winning even as the pressure builds and questions start to be asked/expectations start to be voiced.We looked like we could do it at times last season, but ultimately crashed and burned in the most horrific fashion. So that major roadblock remains - however, that doesn't mean we haven't advanced from where we were, say, before 2009-2010, or even at times during Harry and AVB's tenures. We have. But not far enough to completely overcome that mental hoodoo.
We'll see how we do tomorrow. A win would be a fantastic step forward in dispelling that mental fragility (it has to be sustained throughout the season, but it would definitely be a 'clutch' moment seized). A draw (the likeliest, imo) would be a good result that shows grit and heart (if not enough of it to fully overcome that roadblock). A loss, and we're back to square one.
glorygloryeze
Dimitar Berbatov
The more I think about it, the more I think Jose will be hoping we start Dier; he seems much more susceptible to the press/counter-press that teams with pace in CM/ACM areas could target him on. I saw it a few times last season, imo: home vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Arsenal. Even this season vs Monaco at home I think as well as the EFL cup game away at PooL: Wanyama offers much better solidity in these types of games overall for me.
Dier has played much less well than last season so far so I hope Poch takes note and plays Wanyama and Dembele to keep things solid vs the likes of fluid Mkhitaryan, Martial and Rashford.
I think Dier might be a liability that's not worth risking - unless we are playing 3 in the middle and he plays alongside Wanyama and Dembele (or even Winks).
Dier has played much less well than last season so far so I hope Poch takes note and plays Wanyama and Dembele to keep things solid vs the likes of fluid Mkhitaryan, Martial and Rashford.
I think Dier might be a liability that's not worth risking - unless we are playing 3 in the middle and he plays alongside Wanyama and Dembele (or even Winks).
glorygloryeze
Dimitar Berbatov
Well, not quite. The Same Old Spurs would lose this 5-2 after leading 2-0 at half-time and then conceding a penalty that blatantly wasn't (yep, seven-odd years on and I'm *still* bitter about that game
We looked like we could do it at times last season, but ultimately crashed and burned in the most horrific fashion. So that major roadblock remains - however, that doesn't mean we haven't advanced from where we were, say, before 2009-2010, or even at times during Harry and AVB's tenures. We have. But not far enough to completely overcome that mental hoodoo.
We'll see how we do tomorrow. A win would be a fantastic step forward in dispelling that mental fragility (it has to be sustained throughout the season, but it would definitely be a 'clutch' moment seized). A draw (the likeliest, imo) would be a good result that shows grit and heart (if not enough of it to fully overcome that roadblock). A loss, and we're back to square one.
Agreed on all points, especially the need for 'grit'. It's why I hope Wanyama starts and is not dropped in place of Die in that deep midfield area..
DubaiSpur
Jack Jull
Fair. @Spur of the moment made the same point using a different argument, and it's a very valid one. Personally, as I said, I suspect playing much the same side as last season might give us a bit more fluidity (and I don't think Dier is as susceptible to the press as he's perhaps alleged to be).
glorygloryeze
Dimitar Berbatov
I'd rather we look to play this same side as last season vs a Burnley or Hull, where we would be favourites to win and more than likely dominate possession to that effect.
Playing the same side as last season to see if we can get more fluidity seems a good idea in itself - just not for the hell of it and certainly not away at Old Trafford...
Gazza
Johnny Morrison
Da'fuk?
glorygloryeze
Dimitar Berbatov
What do you have issue with in my post?
jabbathehut
Milenko Acimovic
must win for both .We can't keep squandering opportunites to close the gap when they come.I think United will play a typical Mourinho defensive game and try and nick it on the counter.Hopefully we will be able to break them down.
SpurMeUp
Tommy Harmer
Dier or Wanyama? Is Dembele fully fit? Will Toby be able to hit the ground running?
Three key questions that might determine the game. Article in the guardian: Dier and Dembele have only played 38 mins together in midfield this season. They were fundamental last season complementing each other perfectly.
Yet Wanyama is a player growing into an all round beast of a midfielder. He will be able to drive forward and carry the ball and replicate some of Dembeles skills imo.
Dier is simply class. His technique is impressive. He can be a cultured player who can also defend. Younger than Wanyama, I think he's better in possession than the Kenyan.
So I'd like to see Dier get the DM spot back, playing with either Wanyama further forward or ideally Dembele.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Three key questions that might determine the game. Article in the guardian: Dier and Dembele have only played 38 mins together in midfield this season. They were fundamental last season complementing each other perfectly.
Yet Wanyama is a player growing into an all round beast of a midfielder. He will be able to drive forward and carry the ball and replicate some of Dembeles skills imo.
Dier is simply class. His technique is impressive. He can be a cultured player who can also defend. Younger than Wanyama, I think he's better in possession than the Kenyan.
So I'd like to see Dier get the DM spot back, playing with either Wanyama further forward or ideally Dembele.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Gazza
Johnny Morrison
Dier next to Dembele is the best we have seen recently. I think they have an understanding and calling him a liability is very very harsh.
But I suppose it's all about options. Diers forward passing is highly underrated.
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
Past seasons are past seasons. This is a team with one more year of experience under a coach that is continuously improving it. And as far as the Chelsea game is concerned, we didn't exactly choke. We played them off the park for a half at their ground without three key players after a midweek CL game and then tired and lost because of a silly mistake. I think this year's team is a different animal and had begun to show what it can do in the past 3-4 games. I truly believe that, when on form, we can be unplayable.Well, I hope your inkling proves correct.I'd love for us to win, but I think it's less likely than a relatively even draw.
I'd argue it wasn't actually a clutch moment - too early in the season to mean much (places fluctuated wildly after each game), our unbeaten run hadn't stretched long enough to assume undue significance, there were no major hoodoos to be broken (I think I'm right in saying that we'd beaten City twice in the last three meetings at the Lane prior to that game) and we were still opening up in terms of regaining last season's form. It was a beautiful, unforgettably dominant performance, but it sort of illustrates what I mean when I say that we do our best work in the shadows away from public scrutiny or expectations.
As a counter-example from the immediate past, we faced a series of clutch moments last season in our fruitless quest to catch Leicester - we took on the first few (up until United) with aplomb, but then stumbled and fell apart as the public scrutiny reached a fever pitch. Ultimately, we even managed to finish behind Arsenal again. This season, we went into the Chelsea game with the ability to break the hoodoo Stamford Bridge still exercises over us and reassert our title credentials up front and center against the front-runners, and we sort of fell apart in the second half and lost both the game and our unbeaten run.
I'll stick by my point, I think. We generally don't do well in clutch moments when the pressure's on. We do sometimes - that's what makes those moments so memorable. We did in 2009-2010, over a sustained period of games *filled* with hoodoos we previously were laid low by (we beat Arsenal in the league for the first time in ages, we beat Chelsea at home during a monstrously good season for them, we beat typically defensive and niggly Bolton to keep us ahead of City, and then we comfortably beat Mancini's men away when the eyes of the media and the world were on us). We did in 2012-2013, when we remained steady and relentless all the way through the second half of the season, even as Arsenal went on an unreal run of form to finish ahead of us. And we've done well in clutch moments in individual games plenty of times. But those moments are in the minority compared to the times we've faltered or failed, and I don't think we're quite ready to cross that bridge yet.
We just aren't that sort of club yet, and haven't been for a long, long time. We're no Leicester.
Spurs7891
Jermaine Jenas
ManU are the team that have affected us the most on and off the field during the PL era. So, it was great when AVB led us to beat them away for the first time since 1989. Sherwood did well to beat them away the following year. Disappointingly we have lost both the away matches under Pochetttino since then. But Pochettino did steer us to beat ManU at home last season and that was our first home win since 2001.So, it is time Pochettino get his first win at ManU for us.
ManU are one of only 3 teams that Kane have failed to score against so far in his career. But he has been in good goal scoring form since returning from his injury. Let's hope he can score against them this time. Apart from Kane, players like Son and Alli need to do their part in helping us score in this match. Too bad Lamela is still out injured as his creativity and tenacity would be very usefull against ManU.
I think this match will be won or lost in midfield. Wanyama and Dembele have been playing well in recent matches. Hope both will be fit to start this match as well. I think Dembele can really hurt ManU with his runs and dribbling skills if he is fully fit. Eriksen has been getting back his good form in recent matches. Let's hope he will have another good match and score from his freekicks for once !
Our defence have been shaky without Alderweireld. Hope Alderweireld will come back to partner Vertonghen and make our defence tight again. We have badly missed his leadership in defence during his absence. Despite the return of Alderweireld, Rose and Walker need to avoid any silly mistakes in defence as well. I think Lloris needs to be more vocal to make the defence in front of him to concentrate all the time. Hope our defence can keep the clean sheet at ManU for the first time since 2005.
Can see this match being a tense and tough match. ManU will be desperate to win. But we too need a win to stay in touch with the teams above us. Hope we can win this match to move above ManCity into the 4th place.
ManU are one of only 3 teams that Kane have failed to score against so far in his career. But he has been in good goal scoring form since returning from his injury. Let's hope he can score against them this time. Apart from Kane, players like Son and Alli need to do their part in helping us score in this match. Too bad Lamela is still out injured as his creativity and tenacity would be very usefull against ManU.
I think this match will be won or lost in midfield. Wanyama and Dembele have been playing well in recent matches. Hope both will be fit to start this match as well. I think Dembele can really hurt ManU with his runs and dribbling skills if he is fully fit. Eriksen has been getting back his good form in recent matches. Let's hope he will have another good match and score from his freekicks for once !
Our defence have been shaky without Alderweireld. Hope Alderweireld will come back to partner Vertonghen and make our defence tight again. We have badly missed his leadership in defence during his absence. Despite the return of Alderweireld, Rose and Walker need to avoid any silly mistakes in defence as well. I think Lloris needs to be more vocal to make the defence in front of him to concentrate all the time. Hope our defence can keep the clean sheet at ManU for the first time since 2005.
Can see this match being a tense and tough match. ManU will be desperate to win. But we too need a win to stay in touch with the teams above us. Hope we can win this match to move above ManCity into the 4th place.
paxtonwolf
John Cameron
With Hull and Burnley at home to come in the next 8 days as well, we have an amazing chance to get ourselves well in the race for 3rd place.
(I think Chelsea w/o European football will waltz and Arsenal's luck (see yesterday) and Sanchez turning in Suarez for them ,will see them 2nd.)
Unfortunately, as has been suggested, we aren't the best as seizing oppurtunities, 7 from 9 would be a very decent return, 9 from 9 and we would be right in the mix. Todays main aim has to be avoid defeat to keep that nice little buffer to 6th
(I think Chelsea w/o European football will waltz and Arsenal's luck (see yesterday) and Sanchez turning in Suarez for them ,will see them 2nd.)
Unfortunately, as has been suggested, we aren't the best as seizing oppurtunities, 7 from 9 would be a very decent return, 9 from 9 and we would be right in the mix. Todays main aim has to be avoid defeat to keep that nice little buffer to 6th
Win today will see us right up there in the title race! COYS
NaijaSpurs
Paul Walsh
I disagree 100%, the main aim for today HAS TO BE 3 POINTS
