***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR Vs MAN UNITED -OMT***

[mick cooper]

You'd both want Dawson to go up against Rooney and Wellbeck over King? I mean you'd both be happy with that?

Based on the last game
yes

Not totally happy, I'd rather have 100% King. He's gone now, its just a matter of accepting it

I'd rather have Roberts, Mabbutt or England, but their days are over as well.

(I'd be delighted to be proved wrong BTW)

 

[braineclipse]

VDV has excelled in offering little or no support for Ade, instead he delights in coming deep and picking the ball of our centre backs, yet some people think this is a good thing ](*,)

It may not be a zero-sum game, but VdV dropping deeper probably allows Bale more freedom to roam forward, meaning that he has scored more. We have had a team with VdV for most of the season and that got us 3rd in the table. I don't understand how people can argue that it's somehow clear that he shouldn't be in our starting 11. I could understand an argument that it's close, but Defoe/Saha just about edges it. But clearly? I don't get it.

VDV lacks discipline he wants to be anywhere and everywhere and while it is commendable it is ultimately to the detriment of the team and does not help Ade out.

In the games he played before his latest injury he looked as defensively disciplined and mature as I've ever seen him, his work rate was also very good. He does drift around a bit when we have the ball, I think that's a good thing. He isn't a shoulder of the line player at all, he needs and should be on the ball, then Lennon, Bale can attack the space he leaves behind.

 

[Tottenham Dave]

He's gone now, its just a matter of accepting it

Come on mate, lets not write him off just yet.

 

[braineclipse]

Based on the last game
yes

Not totally happy, I'd rather have 100% King. He's gone now, its just a matter of accepting it

I'd rather have Roberts, Mabbutt or England, but their days are over as well.

(I'd be delighted to be proved wrong BTW)

Both Kaboul and Dawson have always looked better next to King. Always.

King-Kaboul looked no more shambolic against Arsenal than Dawson-Kaboul did against City at home earlier this season.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

It may not be a zero-sum game, but VdV dropping deeper probably allows Bale more freedom to roam forward, meaning that he has scored more. We have had a team with VdV for most of the season and that got us 3rd in the table. I don't understand how people can argue that it's somehow clear that he shouldn't be in our starting 11. I could understand an argument that it's close, but Defoe/Saha just about edges it. But clearly? I don't get it.

In the games he played before his latest injury he looked as defensively disciplined and mature as I've ever seen him, his work rate was also very good. He does drift around a bit when we have the ball, I think that's a good thing. He isn't a shoulder of the line player at all, he needs and should be on the ball, then Lennon, Bale can attack the space he leaves behind.

Which again leaves our sole strike isolated up font on his own. All this giving Bale a free role malarky is all well and good but we play our best football with Lennon and Bale on the flanks

Cast you mind back to how brick VDV was against Wolves, he played every where except supporting ade

 

[NaijaSpurs]

If Bale wants to roam forward how about he do it down the left wing and not though the middle

I also think Ade plays better with Defoe than with VDV

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

It may not be a zero-sum game, but VdV dropping deeper probably allows Bale more freedom to roam forward, meaning that he has scored more. We have had a team with VdV for most of the season and that got us 3rd in the table. I don't understand how people can argue that it's somehow clear that he shouldn't be in our starting 11. I could understand an argument that it's close, but Defoe/Saha just about edges it. But clearly? I don't get it.



In the games he played before his latest injury he looked as defensively disciplined and mature as I've ever seen him, his work rate was also very good. He does drift around a bit when we have the ball, I think that's a good thing. He isn't a shoulder of the line player at all, he needs and should be on the ball, then Lennon, Bale can attack the space he leaves behind.

it's probably true that Bale has scored more because of his more central role, but has that just replaced VDV's goals?

we're often too narrow when Bale drifts in, and the width we do get is provided by BAE who can neither beat his man nor cross as well as Bale, so the overall threat from the wing is lessened.

and no, VDV isn't a shoulder player but surely he should be playing off the CF, lurking on the edge, not in our third when we have players that can carry and distribute from deep?

and keeping Bale wide also has the obvious shape / defensive advantages too, and i think that outweighs what Bale gives us centrally.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

it's probably true that Bale has scored more because of his more central role, but has that just replaced VDV's goals?

we're often too narrow when Bale drifts in, and the width we do get is provided by BAE who can neither beat his man nor cross as well as Bale, so the overall threat from the wing is lessened.

and no, VDV isn't a shoulder player but surely he should be playing off the CF, lurking on the edge, not in our third when we have players that can carry and distribute from deep?

and keeping Bale wide also has the obvious shape / defensive advantages too, and i think that outweighs what Bale gives us centrally.

well said mate

 

[braineclipse]

Which again leaves our sole strike isolated up font on his own. All this giving Bale a free role malarky is all well and good but we play our best football with Lennon and Bale on the flanks

Cast you mind back to how brick VDV was against Wolves, he played every where except supporting ade

Cast your mind back to how brick/useless/invisible Saha was against Arsenal apart from one lucky deflected goal.

Cast your mind back to how fantastic VdV is at his best.

One game doesn't really do much to change my mind. VdV is (for me) part of our strongest 11, if he's fit he should start, if he's off form he should probably still start so that he can re-gain that form. He is also a big game player, an experienced head, someone with a winning mentality. We need that on the pitch against United.

Either way, whatever Harry goes with I'll be happy as long as it's Sandro and Modric in the middle and not some way to combine Sandro and Livermore in there.

Oh, and regardless of our formation I hope either VdV or one of our strikers if we play 4-4-2 sticks like the smell of old beer to a shoddy pub to Michael Carrick when we're defending (somewhat deeply) and organized, I mean fudging follow him around like a shadow. We can't let him control play and dictate their play for free.

 

[Rossi22]

Congratulations braineclipse, you've just proven you're not a member of the "Can't remember jackbrick beyond our last game" club =D>

 

[DHSF]

Congratulations braineclipse, you've just proven you're not a member of the "Can't remember jackbrick beyond our last game" club =D>

Hence why I suggested Defoe to play. he fudgein deserves to play he is our most clinical finisher - is it 8 in 8? He has looked fitter, sharper and links well with Ade.

 

[braineclipse]

it's probably true that Bale has scored more because of his more central role, but has that just replaced VDV's goals?

we're often too narrow when Bale drifts in, and the width we do get is provided by BAE who can neither beat his man nor cross as well as Bale, so the overall threat from the wing is lessened.

and no, VDV isn't a shoulder player but surely he should be playing off the CF, lurking on the edge, not in our third when we have players that can carry and distribute from deep?

and keeping Bale wide also has the obvious shape / defensive advantages too, and i think that outweighs what Bale gives us centrally.

My point was just that just because VdV is playing a deeper role doesn't mean that the team shouldn't be able to support Ade.

Bale got almost as much stick for sticking wide as the does for drifting inside too much. He had loads of invisible games when hugging the touchline as well. It's all about movement and simultaneously moving in opposite directions to unbalance a defence.

In our third? I can only assume you're making some kind of massive exaggeration for effect. How the hell has he scored his goals this season and last? He roams around, it's part of his game, I'm glad he does. I do wish he would roam slightly higher up the pitch at times. Just like I wish Bale would roam slightly further to the left. But I don't want either player dropped.

I simply to refuse to believe that VdV, who has been one of our better players in loads of games, both games where we have been brilliant in attack and games where we have been resilient in defence has all of a sudden become this massive tactical headache that simply can't fit into our side. At best he's been off form for a bit, that's it.

We've played loads of games with Bale out wide and VdV in the side, if that is better for us and that is what Harry wants then Harry should just tell the lads to do that. Not all that difficult.

As for what is better for our defending, VdV started both our CL games against Inter and Milan last season, doing very well. Like I already said, his ability to effectively drop into a midfield position, making our formation a 4-5-1/4-3-3 if we get put under pressure is what for me edges it between him and Defoe/Saha. Saha showed against Arsenal that he couldn't do that even at the best of times (early 2-0 lead) and Defoe has shown as much on multiple occasions.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

I love how anytime VDV has a poo game someone will jump forward and inform that he is not fully fit, now therein lies the rub, how about if an't fukking fit don't fukking play him

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Hence why I suggested Defoe to play. he fudgein deserves to play he is our most clinical finisher - is it 8 in 8? He has looked fitter, sharper and links well with Ade.

People go on about VDV but the fact is this season Ade has been more important and he generally plays better with a strike partner

 

[braineclipse]

I love how anytime VDV has a poo game someone will jump forward and inform that he is not fully fit, now therein lies the rub, how about if an't fukking fit don't fukking play him

I actually agree with this and have for a long time. I would rather have him come on for the last 30-35 minutes when space is opening up than have him start and then almost inevitably be forced into a sub after an hour. Seemed like Harry did just that against Arsenal.

But therein the rub does not lie. At least not in this discussion. I'm very much arguing from the assumption that VdV is fit, if he's not he shouldn't start. That has very little to do with the current discussion of formation preferences, him playing to deep, our defending suffering with Bale drifting inside as a result of that, Defoe/Saha being better for the overall performance of our team because they support Ade more, 4-4-2 being the best formation for our team against big teams and so on.

Oh, and most of our players get defended if they have a poor game and weren't fit. Happened for Ekotto, Bale, Modric, Lennon and Walker at the very least, that's just off the top of my head.

 

[Naughton16]

The last time we beat Man Utd the twin towers dominated the NYC skyline and the Euro had not yet gone into circulation.

What's the saying, we're due a win?

 

[Rossi22]

Hence why I suggested Defoe to play. he fudgein deserves to play he is our most clinical finisher - is it 8 in 8? He has looked fitter, sharper and links well with Ade.

Defoe can feel hard done by, he'll never be as good as VDV but he's delivered when asked this season. I'm referring more to the rewriting of history of VDV and now Bale. The latter receiving a torrent of abuse because he dares to venture outside of his swimming lane, now I do think he may have gone a little too much the other way with his roaming but you listen to people on here and you'd think it was Inter Milan performances from Bale every week. Fact is, it was nowhere near. After those games he'd contributed to approximately zero goals as a straight line left winger, he was having no effect on games, and frankly he'd become stale and his place in the side was down to reputation. He then started to venture outside of the orthodox left wing role and what do you know ... goals and assists roll in, he wins the Premier League player of the month for January, a couple of quiet games later and it's Bale needs to fudge off with this roaming crap and that he's ruining our balance because I can't possibly comprehend players moving into different positions.

There are times when he should stay wide and others when he should move centrally, he needs to find a happy medium and I think he will do when Lennon is back in the side as you know 90% of the time Lennon will stand around with chalk on his boots.

 

[glorygloryeze]

This is a MASSIVE game for Sandro. MASSIVE!
Apart from playing when Parker is suspended and wanting to make a statement about staying in the side, i'm sure he will be aware of being watched at home in Brazil and across Europe. Just like against Milan his rep could soar through the roof if he is able to dominate their midfield and hence starve Rooney. If that happens Scholes is almost guarenteed to get sent off in fustration (and/or Rooney).

I hope Harry has the DVD of the Saudi Sportswashing Machine-Utd game at hand. Rio/Evans wont fancy playing against Ade and if we dominate midfield we'll force them to knock it long, and I think that will play into our hands.

It should be our time now!

COYS!

 

[mudshark]

The last time we beat Man Utd the twin towers dominated the NYC skyline and the Euro had not yet gone into circulation.

What's the saying, we're due a win?

Yep, but I'd much prefer to be going into the game on better form. We've taken 8 from the last 18 available points, which pretty much equals Everton's season average. Right now, I think I'd take a draw tomorrow and consider it a good result.

 

[lukavanderbale]

We're going to win, and VDV will score.