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*** Tottenham Hotspur vs clams***

I avoided this place until the last few hours.
Now I know why.

Some of you need to grow a pair. AND be held accountable.
You tinkled and moaned about Poch, wanted him sacked, were delighted when Mourinho came in and then finally ended up wanting him binned too, all the while blaming Levy. Now it’s Nuno’s turn? Come on. Really. Put those toys back in and keep pushing!

Let’s look at this honestly.
The side that started against Chelsea had ONE training session together in TWO WEEKS! Dier was playing strapped up and possibly not 100%. Ndombele starting his second game in 4 days having not been around for anything until last Thursday. A right-back who has only just arrived. A star striker who is obviously labouring (as he always does at this time of the season) and who is evidently suffering from an application crisis too. Plus in Sonny, another player quite possibly playing at not 100%.

The first goal was a miscommunication. Dele wasn’t tight enough, Dier was zoning, saw it unfolding, thought he could get there and cover and in the end impeded Dele’s effort to get up with Thiago. BTW Dele made two excellent defensive blocks which saved on target chances. Second goal was PEH not closing down fully (another player who has played massive amounts of football with minimal rest). Gil is a tidy player but he is a developing talent. WIthout Moura or Bergwijn as options, we are going to struggle to have game changing players. As for the weekly Dele-bashing, keep remembering this is NOT the 2016/17 model and he is being asked to do different things. Don’t hate the player, hate the game if you must, but at least stop labouring in the belief he is playing in those positions as he used to.

I am far from happy with where we are, but I am realistic enough to know where it is. And it isn’t Tuchel and it isn’t Chelsea. Kante is one of the best two gsme-controlling midfielders in world football. Ollie isn’t, albeit he is a fine player.

Oh, and I have to laugh. NES goes for more attack and still cops it. Sigh…again, I was not happy today but there are bruised knees and kids screaming from prams to get their rattles and books handed back around here. It is really something to see…
 
Think @thfcsteff covered the salient points above. Few thoughts from me:

1) team selection - surprised to say the least after Palace debacle. Strong and attacking, picked the players he thought would work best and the first half we were arguably the better team

2) squad depth - a painful issue that's been around for years now. We have a competitive first XI but in the PL that is not enough. Chelsea are moneybags I don't expect to compete with them, but no strikers on bench and Lucas/Stevie injured leaves us so light

3) once Ndombele went we had nothing to offer in the middle of the park. A couple of workhorses but no class whatsoever.

4) should have worked with City to get a deal around £120-130m and sold Kane. Said it at the time and don't see anything changing there

5) Chelsea seemed to have more desire to win the game. Not sure what it is about our club but our players just didn't have the mentality to consistently fight

6) Lo Celso had a poor game all round. Since bringing him in he's played as a 6, 8, 10, but never really looked a cut above anywhere. This season he needs to come good or go.

7) kept Lukaku out entirely which is a positive

8) finally on Nuno. Losing to Chelsea I think a lot can expect that - but he lost his goodwill last week with the Palace selection. It's too early to call time and what's the solution if we do guys? We're 7 games into a season who's leaving their respective clubs? I made no bones last season of wanting Potter but it didn't happen and we now need to see what Nuno can do with us with a fully fit team.

He put out a surprising team yesterday but the second half jeez, not sure what happened at HT. What I will add to that was the players came out to a half empty stadium and no atmosphere after the interval, I wonder if Chelsea took advantage of that.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
thfcsteff said:
I avoided this place until the last few hours.
Now I know why.

Some of you need to grow a pair. AND be held accountable.
You tinkled and moaned about Poch, wanted him sacked, were delighted when Mourinho came in and then finally ended up wanting him binned too, all the while blaming Levy. Now it’s Nuno’s turn? Come on. Really. Put those toys back in and keep pushing!

Let’s look at this honestly.
The side that started against Chelsea had ONE training session together in TWO WEEKS! Dier was playing strapped up and possibly not 100%. Ndombele starting his second game in 4 days having not been around for anything until last Thursday. A right-back who has only just arrived. A star striker who is obviously labouring (as he always does at this time of the season) and who is evidently suffering from an application crisis too. Plus in Sonny, another player quite possibly playing at not 100%.

The first goal was a miscommunication. Dele wasn’t tight enough, Dier was zoning, saw it unfolding, thought he could get there and cover and in the end impeded Dele’s effort to get up with Thiago. BTW Dele made two excellent defensive blocks which saved on target chances. Second goal was PEH not closing down fully (another player who has played massive amounts of football with minimal rest). Gil is a tidy player but he is a developing talent. WIthout Moura or Bergwijn as options, we are going to struggle to have game changing players. As for the weekly Dele-bashing, keep remembering this is NOT the 2016/17 model and he is being asked to do different things. Don’t hate the player, hate the game if you must, but at least stop labouring in the belief he is playing in those positions as he used to.

I am far from happy with where we are, but I am realistic enough to know where it is. And it isn’t Tuchel and it isn’t Chelsea. Kante is one of the best two gsme-controlling midfielders in world football. Ollie isn’t, albeit he is a fine player.

Oh, and I have to laugh. NES goes for more attack and still cops it. Sigh…again, I was not happy today but there are bruised knees and kids screaming from prams to get their rattles and books handed back around here. It is really something to see…
Click to expand...
Top post. Said in this thread before the game that I didn't think Ndombele would start, but I would defend it all well if it happened and didn't work.

A lot worth defending with that selection and our approach. It raises questions for me about the approach in earlier games, but I see no reasons to rehash that.

With Lucas and Bergwijn missing. Ndombele and Lo Celso short on fitness, Gil still settling in and being 20 years old we didn't have the players available to change things as we would have wanted in the second half. I would have loved to see a solution from Nuno, but I struggle to see what that could have been.

Would it have been better to have one of Ndombele and GLC on the bench so that one could replace the other when needed keeping some creative ability in midfield? Yes, perhaps. But then the only attacking options would have been Gil or Scarlett from the start. I can understand not going for that option. It wasn't overly cautious. It was a good attempt.

Nuno showed a willingness to put out a more attacking side, in a really difficult game. We tried, but are still very much a work in progress and Chelsea were too good in the end.

We probably needed the first goal to make that work. Chelsea are one of the hardest teams to get that goal against, but what can you do?

Really tough defeat to take, even though it wasn't unexpected. But some positives there to take from this game. We need to keep developing the way we play, that's been needed for a long time, finally we're taking steps in that direction.
 
braineclipse said:
Top post. Said in this thread before the game that I didn't think Ndombele would start, but I would defend it all well if it happened and didn't work.

A lot worth defending with that selection and our approach. It raises questions for me about the approach in earlier games, but I see no reasons to rehash that.

With Lucas and Bergwijn missing. Ndombele and Lo Celso short on fitness, Gil still settling in and being 20 years old we didn't have the players available to change things as we would have wanted in the second half. I would have loved to see a solution from Nuno, but I struggle to see what that could have been.

Would it have been better to have one of Ndombele and GLC on the bench so that one could replace the other when needed keeping some creative ability in midfield? Yes, perhaps. But then the only attacking options would have been Gil or Scarlett from the start. I can understand not going for that option. It wasn't overly cautious. It was a good attempt.

Nuno showed a willingness to put out a more attacking side, in a really difficult game. We tried, but are still very much a work in progress and Chelsea were too good in the end.

We probably needed the first goal to make that work. Chelsea are one of the hardest teams to get that goal against, but what can you do?

Really tough defeat to take, even though it wasn't unexpected. But some positives there to take from this game. We need to keep developing the way we play, that's been needed for a long time, finally we're taking steps in that direction.
Click to expand...
Chelsea are the hardest team to get a goal against
They have conceded 1 goal. That was a pen
 
Diamond Lights said:
Think @thfcsteff covered the salient points above. Few thoughts from me:

1) team selection - surprised to say the least after Palace debacle. Strong and attacking, picked the players he thought would work best and the first half we were arguably the better team

2) squad depth - a painful issue that's been around for years now. We have a competitive first XI but in the PL that is not enough. Chelsea are moneybags I don't expect to compete with them, but no strikers on bench and Lucas/Stevie injured leaves us so light

3) once Ndombele went we had nothing to offer in the middle of the park. A couple of workhorses but no class whatsoever.

4) should have worked with City to get a deal around £120-130m and sold Kane. Said it at the time and don't see anything changing there

5) Chelsea seemed to have more desire to win the game. Not sure what it is about our club but our players just didn't have the mentality to consistently fight

6) Lo Celso had a poor game all round. Since bringing him in he's played as a 6, 8, 10, but never really looked a cut above anywhere. This season he needs to come good or go.

7) kept Lukaku out entirely which is a positive

8) finally on Nuno. Losing to Chelsea I think a lot can expect that - but he lost his goodwill last week with the Palace selection. It's too early to call time and what's the solution if we do guys? We're 7 games into a season who's leaving their respective clubs? I made no bones last season of wanting Potter but it didn't happen and we now need to see what Nuno can do with us with a fully fit team.

He put out a surprising team yesterday but the second half jeez, not sure what happened at HT. What I will add to that was the players came out to a half empty stadium and no atmosphere after the interval, I wonder if Chelsea took advantage of that.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Click to expand...
Lukaku was kept at bay really well
Their attackers creates nothing, it came from defenders and dimming backs
Their system is so well drilled
Nuno can’t win though as Steff pointed out
Chelsea haven’t conceded one goal and that a penalty. Their the team who should win the league and anything less for them would be a failure. Tuchel showed us tactics again
The bench options when I saw the squad were horrendous. That’s painful to see. But without players Nunos hands are tied
Shame Tanguy can’t play more than a half as he had a yeah first half
 
thfcsteff said:
I avoided this place until the last few hours.
Now I know why.

Some of you need to grow a pair. AND be held accountable.
You tinkled and moaned about Poch, wanted him sacked, were delighted when Mourinho came in and then finally ended up wanting him binned too, all the while blaming Levy. Now it’s Nuno’s turn? Come on. Really. Put those toys back in and keep pushing!

Let’s look at this honestly.
The side that started against Chelsea had ONE training session together in TWO WEEKS! Dier was playing strapped up and possibly not 100%. Ndombele starting his second game in 4 days having not been around for anything until last Thursday. A right-back who has only just arrived. A star striker who is obviously labouring (as he always does at this time of the season) and who is evidently suffering from an application crisis too. Plus in Sonny, another player quite possibly playing at not 100%.

The first goal was a miscommunication. Dele wasn’t tight enough, Dier was zoning, saw it unfolding, thought he could get there and cover and in the end impeded Dele’s effort to get up with Thiago. BTW Dele made two excellent defensive blocks which saved on target chances. Second goal was PEH not closing down fully (another player who has played massive amounts of football with minimal rest). Gil is a tidy player but he is a developing talent. WIthout Moura or Bergwijn as options, we are going to struggle to have game changing players. As for the weekly Dele-bashing, keep remembering this is NOT the 2016/17 model and he is being asked to do different things. Don’t hate the player, hate the game if you must, but at least stop labouring in the belief he is playing in those positions as he used to.

I am far from happy with where we are, but I am realistic enough to know where it is. And it isn’t Tuchel and it isn’t Chelsea. Kante is one of the best two gsme-controlling midfielders in world football. Ollie isn’t, albeit he is a fine player.

Oh, and I have to laugh. NES goes for more attack and still cops it. Sigh…again, I was not happy today but there are bruised knees and kids screaming from prams to get their rattles and books handed back around here. It is really something to see…
Click to expand...

The posts I have seen seem to generally agree with you but then again I have only looked at the last couple of pages.

We will be fine once everyone is up to speed and we get some players back from injury.

BUT be warned everyone, next week is going to be painful. Arteta will have them fired up and pressing with the crowd well up for it. We will wilt under that, struggle to string a few passes together, constantly give the ball away and concede chance after chance. Almost certainly that will result in a loss, with a bit of luck we can keep the scoreline respectable.

Sorry seen the script at their place too many times and its not a dig at the current setup. Same brick would happen if we’d won every game this season 5-0.
 
Optimism right now is just fanaticism .. ndombele has had three years to get fit, there’s no creativity from midfield and that’s not changing, reguilon is just an average player, likewise the majority of our starting xi … and being a hindsight hero on Poch still doesn’t make Levy’s decision
to sack him correct, and poch not being given a budget for 18 months was perfection both then and now.

Levy’s a shrewd financial owner who’s made some huge non financial mistakes. Not buying Grealish still annoys me …
 
Good to see some reason on here. After the Palace game I was so gutted, really black mood for 24 hours and more. But yesterday the manager surprised us all with what is on paper the best team. As others have said, without Moura and Bergwin, we are struggling, the bench was feeble. Good first half, but we don't have the luxury of a subs bench full of winners, far from it.
I know that the Chairman wants to keep the wage bill at a certain ratio - but not having a proper 3rd striker? What was so wrong with Vinicius? It is absolutely crazy that a club of our size and ambition don't have a back-up centre forward.
Keep the faith, there's nothing wrong with the manager, we need to beat Villa and all will be well.....(or as well as it will be this season!!)
 
Was delighted yesterday when I saw the team. That was the right starting eleven for me. First 20 mins was good but after that…

I never expected to beat Chelsea. Didn’t even expect a draw. But losing 3-0 to them at home is not acceptable. Particularly with an absolutely horrific second half performance. As bad as I’ve seen since the 0-3 at Brighton under Poch.

Kane, Son and GLC’s positions were also baffling to me. And I watched Nuno for a good chunk of the second half. He stood with his hands in his pockets. I’m not normally one for “he needs to be ranting and raving” but he looked like a deer in the headlights.

I said last week that he should get the season. And I probably stand by that. But he’s out of his depth. First three results papered over the cracks. Last week and this week was coming. If we get tonked next week, it’ll get very uncomfortable for Nuno.
 
thfcsteff said:
Let’s look at this honestly.
Click to expand...

but honestly isn't it just more excuses!
yes things were not right..never are ..
We dont have the ability and composure chelscum have.. certainly dont have the same class players ...and thats why we cannot compete with them. We need better players..thats logical! they will win EPL this season unfortunately.
 
thfcsteff said:
I avoided this place until the last few hours.
Now I know why.

Some of you need to grow a pair. AND be held accountable.
You tinkled and moaned about Poch, wanted him sacked, were delighted when Mourinho came in and then finally ended up wanting him binned too, all the while blaming Levy. Now it’s Nuno’s turn? Come on. Really. Put those toys back in and keep pushing!

Let’s look at this honestly.
The side that started against Chelsea had ONE training session together in TWO WEEKS! Dier was playing strapped up and possibly not 100%. Ndombele starting his second game in 4 days having not been around for anything until last Thursday. A right-back who has only just arrived. A star striker who is obviously labouring (as he always does at this time of the season) and who is evidently suffering from an application crisis too. Plus in Sonny, another player quite possibly playing at not 100%.

The first goal was a miscommunication. Dele wasn’t tight enough, Dier was zoning, saw it unfolding, thought he could get there and cover and in the end impeded Dele’s effort to get up with Thiago. BTW Dele made two excellent defensive blocks which saved on target chances. Second goal was PEH not closing down fully (another player who has played massive amounts of football with minimal rest). Gil is a tidy player but he is a developing talent. WIthout Moura or Bergwijn as options, we are going to struggle to have game changing players. As for the weekly Dele-bashing, keep remembering this is NOT the 2016/17 model and he is being asked to do different things. Don’t hate the player, hate the game if you must, but at least stop labouring in the belief he is playing in those positions as he used to.

I am far from happy with where we are, but I am realistic enough to know where it is. And it isn’t Tuchel and it isn’t Chelsea. Kante is one of the best two gsme-controlling midfielders in world football. Ollie isn’t, albeit he is a fine player.

Oh, and I have to laugh. NES goes for more attack and still cops it. Sigh…again, I was not happy today but there are bruised knees and kids screaming from prams to get their rattles and books handed back around here. It is really something to see…
Click to expand...
It's not Nuno's fault at all. Well not really.... He was simply a reasonably cheap, available manager who probably wouldn't moan at having an unremarkable budget and not being provided the players that he wants in transfer windows. I suspect that it's likely Nuno won't be the right manager for Spurs but the problems at our club are a level or two above whoever happens to be the manager.

I thought yesterday was quite telling that we got to half-time thinking that we'd done pretty well (and we had done pretty well). However it was also clear that we had a player in a free role on the right side of our attack contributing almost nothing, while we had a (supposedly) very creative player on the bench in Gill. We leave things as they are as we're 'happy' with the 0-0 even though we had a passenger on the pitch, whereas even at 0-0 in an away game Tuchel is prepared to make a tactical change to ensure that his team can get and keep the upper hand.

Once Chelsea took the lead with their goal from a set piece, our manager still kept the same team and shape even though Chelsea were clearly on top in the game. The second goal may have been a deflection but it was no surprise when that second goal came from them. Chelsea made a change to ensure that they could dominate the midfield and nothing came from our manager to counter that.

I think the second goal should mainly be put down to Lo Celso losing the ball horribly. Yes we then didn't close down quickly enough but that goal came about from Chelsea quickly transitioning from defence to attack due to Lo Celso not being good enough on the ball in a dangerous area.
 
Diamond Lights said:
He put out a surprising team yesterday but the second half jeez, not sure what happened at HT. What I will add to that was the players came out to a half empty stadium and no atmosphere after the interval, I wonder if Chelsea took advantage of that.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Click to expand...
What happened in the second half? Tuchel replaced Mount with Kante, who played deeper than Mount which ensured that Chelsea could completely dominate the midfield.... that's what happened. Chelsea have an elite level manager who they acted swiftly to recruit last season, sacking Lampard to do so. We instead have a guy who happened to be available and not particularly expensive that we took several months to appoint (i.e. showing that he wasn't really the guy that we wanted).
 
Not a
DeanoAustin said:
Was delighted yesterday when I saw the team. That was the right starting eleven for me. First 20 mins was good but after that…

I never expected to beat Chelsea. Didn’t even expect a draw. But losing 3-0 to them at home is not acceptable. Particularly with an absolutely horrific second half performance. As bad as I’ve seen since the 0-3 at Brighton under Poch.

Kane, Son and GLC’s positions were also baffling to me. And I watched Nuno for a good chunk of the second half. He stood with his hands in his pockets. I’m not normally one for “he needs to be ranting and raving” but he looked like a deer in the headlights.

I said last week that he should get the season. And I probably stand by that. But he’s out of his depth. First three results papered over the cracks. Last week and this week was coming. If we get tonked next week, it’ll get very uncomfortable for Nuno.
Click to expand...

This was my view as well, hence "Nuno must learn, fast!"
One does not need to run around the technical area wawing hands, screaming, but you do need to _respond_ to changes in the game!
If the ship is sinking, and the ships carpenter has a limited selection of tools in the toolbox after his hammer broke, should he just shrug his shoulders and accept his fate?
Perhaps, but every now and then using a spanner as a hammer will work! At least you show that you tried.
 
Junior19 said:
Not a


This was my view as well, hence "Nuno must learn, fast!"
One does not need to run around the technical area wawing hands, screaming, but you do need to _respond_ to changes in the game!
If the ship is sinking, and the ships carpenter has a limited selection of tools in the toolbox after his hammer broke, should he just shrug his shoulders and accept his fate?
Perhaps, but every now and then using a spanner as a hammer will work! At least you show that you tried.
Click to expand...

Exactly. This was the problem for me. His bench was brick. But bringing on a sub is not the only way to change a game. Poch got brick for his in game management and lack of subs but he’d often tweak things.

Nuno did nothing yesterday as we were getting well and truly dingdonged. Unforgivable.
 
Last edited:
DeanoAustin said:
Exactly. This was the problem for me. His bench was brick. But bringing on a sub is not the only way to change a game. Poch got brick for his in game management and lack of subs but he’d often tweak things.

Nuno did nothing yesterday as we were getting well and truly sucked. Unforgivable.
Click to expand...
He did have Tanguy n the sidelines several times giving him instruction. Reggie and royal too
 
DeanoAustin said:
Fair enough. Didn’t see that but I spent most of the second half watching through my fingers…
Click to expand...
I saw it at the ground
It was during stops in play
Tanguy at least twice
Reggie once and royal once
Also saw dier grab royal first half and give him some direction

I do agree though their change didn’t prompt any reaction from us (on or off the pitch). I not sure where we thought he would play as they took off an 8/10 for a 6
But I said to my mate they will boss that are now as kante will sit on Hojdjerg who had loads of ball in the first half

saw this just now on Twitter which I thought was good

My personal takeaway was that a club that has been financially doped for 20 years was able to bring on a Ballon D'Or nominee for the second half while we chucked on a youth prospect of the sort they would send to a loan farm for 5 seasons. Cheat code
 
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