*** Tottenham Hotspur v Woolwich *** OMT

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Seems a strange way of thinking.

If Harry Kane puts the ball in the top corner do you want him to stop shooting because he almost missed?

No because obviously Harry Kane almost missing does not result in him having to leave the field of play and put us down to 10 men.

It's pretty much globally understood basics of football. You get a booking, you try and stay on your feet. Lamela got a booking and immediately dived into three challenges, which fair play to him he got correct, but its very fine margins between getting it correct and getting yourself a second booking.

 

[Finney Is Back]

No because obviously Harry Kane almost missing does not result in him having to leave the field of play and put us down to 10 men.

It's pretty much globally understood basics of football. You get a booking, you try and stay on your feet. Lamela got a booking and immediately dived into three challenges, which fair play to him he got correct, but its very fine margins between getting it correct and getting yourself a second booking.

Even worse than that I thought.... It seemed to me that for the attempted tackle on Arsenal's dead ball line, Lamela missed the ball by quite a long way and was saved by the opposition player jumping over him. That was the really reckless one I thought as even had Lamela won tackle he only would've been giving away a goal kick anyway. Hopefully he'll get a little word in the ear from his manager along the lines of "I love the work rate Eric and please keep that up all season, but avoid going to ground where possible, especially when you have already been booked". Job done!

 

[scaramanga]

No because obviously Harry Kane almost missing does not result in him having to leave the field of play and put us down to 10 men.

Neither does almost fouling someone.

It's pretty much globally understood basics of football. You get a booking, you try and stay on your feet. Lamela got a booking and immediately dived into three challenges, which fair play to him he got correct, but its very fine margins between getting it correct and getting yourself a second booking.

But he got them correct. If you take the fear and emotion out of watching the match he did a very good job of treading a fine line (again). In those fine lines, matches are often won and lost.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Neither does almost fouling someone.


But he got them correct. If you take the fear and emotion out of watching the match he did a very good job of treading a fine line (again). In those fine lines, matches are often won and lost.

He did, and credit to that. I just think that the risk of him overstepping that line accidently was high (based off his tiredness and having a known habit of conceding 'silly' fouls) and therefore he was rightly substituted. As someone previous mentioned he slid in at one point and missed the ball (player jumped him) when the only benefit he'd have got from winning the ball was to give them a goal kick. That's just silly.

Would love to have seen him stay on as I think he deserved to, but have absolutely no doubt that had he ended up sent off people would be hammering Poch because 'it was obvious he was going to be sent off'. There was no point in taking that risk. In fact I find it strange that we are even debating it.

 

[metalgear]

You might be right. Had Lamela been on the pitch that may not have happened. He may have got sent off. There are just so many variables in this game that it's impossible to predict. I think for most fans Pochettino made the right call in subbing Lamela for Son

Only thing that matters was that it wasn't enough to win the game. We were the better team, but only managed a draw.

 

[braineclipse]

Neither does almost fouling someone.

But he got them correct. If you take the fear and emotion out of watching the match he did a very good job of treading a fine line (again). In those fine lines, matches are often won and lost.

I agree that the manager has to take away fear and emotion. I can fully understand the calls for him to be subbed earlier as I was obviously a bag of nerves myself pretty much throughout. Doesn't take much to get worried in a situation like that.

I think Pochettino managed the situation really well. And like you say Lamela managed to find that fine line, again. I've pointed it out before, but we've had so many games in the past against big teams where we've been the "sore loser" complaining about some gamesmanship or that this or that opponent could have had a red card and so on. I'm glad we're willing to walk that fine line ourselves now, sometimes we need to. It didn't get headless from Lamela I thought.

He did, and credit to that. I just think that the risk of him overstepping that line accidently was high (based off his tiredness and having a known habit of conceding 'silly' fouls) and therefore he was rightly substituted. As someone previous mentioned he slid in at one point and missed the ball (player jumped him) when the only benefit he'd have got from winning the ball was to give them a goal kick. That's just silly.

Would love to have seen him stay on as I think he deserved to, but have absolutely no doubt that had he ended up sent off people would be hammering Poch because 'it was obvious he was going to be sent off'. There was no point in taking that risk. In fact I find it strange that we are even debating it.

We were leading 1-0. Stopping them from building from the back and forcing them to launch it long from a goal kick where we can get organized and lock of short passing options is a pretty solid benefit. Winning possession by forcing opponents to play it long is fairly frequently mentioned as a benfit to a high pressing game.

I'm not going to argue that Lamela got every risk/benefit decision right, including this one. But I disagree that it's "just silly". If it's a bad decision it's only marginally bad imo.

I agree that people would be hammering Poch for not taking him off earlier if he had gotten sent off. I don't think that makes it a bad decision to keep him on for as long as he did though.

Only thing that matters was that it wasn't enough to win the game. We were the better team, but only managed a draw.

Hasn't happened often that we've come away from a draw at the Emirates thinking that we deserved a win based on our performance. Says a lot about how far we've come, and gives a lot of promise for the rest of the season.

Draws away to title chasing teams are good results, even if they're against rivals.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

I agree that the manager has to take away fear and emotion. I can fully understand the calls for him to be subbed earlier as I was obviously a bag of nerves myself pretty much throughout. Doesn't take much to get worried in a situation like that.

I think Pochettino managed the situation really well. And like you say Lamela managed to find that fine line, again. I've pointed it out before, but we've had so many games in the past against big teams where we've been the "sore loser" complaining about some gamesmanship or that this or that opponent could have had a red card and so on. I'm glad we're willing to walk that fine line ourselves now, sometimes we need to. It didn't get headless from Lamela I thought.

We were leading 1-0. Stopping them from building from the back and forcing them to launch it long from a goal kick where we can get organized and lock of short passing options is a pretty solid benefit. Winning possession by forcing opponents to play it long is fairly frequently mentioned as a benfit to a high pressing game.

I'm not going to argue that Lamela got every risk/benefit decision right, including this one. But I disagree that it's "just silly". If it's a bad decision it's only marginally bad imo.

I agree that people would be hammering Poch for not taking him off earlier if he had gotten sent off. I don't think that makes it a bad decision to keep him on for as long as he did though.

I agree that Poch dealt with it perfectly. I wasn't suggesting that Lamela should have been taken off earlier. I think Poch got it spot on. Maybe I've picked something up wrong but I got the impression people were claiming he should have been left on for longer. I find it strange that people feel there is something to discuss. Player gets booked, dives into a few challenges, manager brings him off before he may or may not get sent off, it happens every week.

Regarding the bit about them building from the back, I'd rather we pressed and penned them in as far away from our goal as possible. Diving in the way Lamela did means we give them a goal kick if he wins the ball or a free kick if he doesn't (and at worst we go down to ten men). In this case the player jumped the tackle and I can't actually remember what he did with the ball after. But both of the more likely outcomes result in them getting the ball quickly into our half. I'd rather see him stand up and us press and pen them into their own corner where they are as far away from our goal as possible.

It's a matter of opinions though.

 

[Finney Is Back]

We were leading 1-0. Stopping them from building from the back and forcing them to launch it long from a goal kick where we can get organized and lock of short passing options is a pretty solid benefit. Winning possession by forcing opponents to play it long is fairly frequently mentioned as a benfit to a high pressing game.

I'm not going to argue that Lamela got every risk/benefit decision right, including this one. But I disagree that it's "just silly". If it's a bad decision it's only marginally bad imo.

Disagree here. If he had closed the player down but stayed on his feet then I think he had him in a compromising position. The Arsenal player was isolated on his own dead ball line without much support. By charging in as he did the best outcome for Lamela was to concede the goal kick, the worst outcome was getting sent off (and IMO it was only the Arsenal player jumping over him that stopped this). The outcome that we instead ended up with was Lamela on the floor and out of the game with the Arsenal player having beaten him carrying the ball up the pitch.

Had Lamela stayed on his feet in that situation then he completely removed the potential worst case scenario and the new worst case scenario was the player somehow getting it back to his keeper to launch it long (i.e. Lamela's previous best case scenario).

 

[scaramanga]

As someone previous mentioned he slid in at one point and missed the ball (player jumped him) when the only benefit he'd have got from winning the ball was to give them a goal kick. That's just silly.

Disagree here. If he had closed the player down but stayed on his feet then I think he had him in a compromising position. The Arsenal player was isolated on his own dead ball line without much support. By charging in as he did the best outcome for Lamela was to concede the goal kick, the worst outcome was getting sent off (and IMO it was only the Arsenal player jumping over him that stopped this). The outcome that we instead ended up with was Lamela on the floor and out of the game with the Arsenal player having beaten him carrying the ball up the pitch.

Had Lamela stayed on his feet in that situation then he completely removed the potential worst case scenario and the new worst case scenario was the player somehow getting it back to his keeper to launch it long (i.e. Lamela's previous best case scenario).

You see, I think that a high press is about more than winning the ball. It's about creating a mindset for the opposition where they can't relax on the ball.

By chasing everything, even pointless ones like that, by pressuring the hell out of every single player, we stop any of their players from having time on the ball and relaxing. Doing so makes their next decision much less reliable.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

You see, I think that a high press is about more than winning the ball. It's about creating a mindset for the opposition where they can't relax on the ball.

By chasing everything, even pointless ones like that, by pressuring the hell out of every single player, we stop any of their players from having time on the ball and relaxing. Doing so makes their next decision much less reliable.

I want to see him closing down and pressuring every single player, just not jumping in like a maniac when he's just been booked.

 

[SPURSphenomenon]

Don't see what all of the fuss is about, its a derby and hes put himself about, he didnt get sent off so why the big drama now? Lets praise his fantastic performance, he set the tone and it was a beautiful thing to see!

 

[Finney Is Back]

You see, I think that a high press is about more than winning the ball. It's about creating a mindset for the opposition where they can't relax on the ball.

By chasing everything, even pointless ones like that, by pressuring the hell out of every single player, we stop any of their players from having time on the ball and relaxing. Doing so makes their next decision much less reliable.

I agree with you completely that him charging up the pitch to press them so deep was great to see. I just held my breath as he launched himself into a sliding tackle from quite a long way back and it was clear pretty much as soon as he launched himself into it that he was very unlikely to connect with the ball. Had that been against Chelsea for example, then I doubt Ivanovic would've jumped quite as high, thus ensuring some contact, he then would've rolled around on the floor feigning an injury that might require amputation as Terry, etc crowded round the ref baying for the second yellow, backed up by a crowd who had finally woken up after 75 minutes of slumber.

Had Lamela not been booked already and it was the same situation then fine... but it was reckless to do when on a yellow and he was lucky that the Arsenal player made an honest attempt to avoid him (who would've thought that?.... An honest Arsenal player?)

 

[thfcsteff]

Only thing that matters was that it wasn't enough to win the game. We were the better team, but only managed a draw.

You really don't like the man do you.

 

[thfcsteff]

You see, I think that a high press is about more than winning the ball. It's about creating a mindset for the opposition where they can't relax on the ball.

By chasing everything, even pointless ones like that, by pressuring the hell out of every single player, we stop any of their players from having time on the ball and relaxing. Doing so makes their next decision much less reliable.

I got back into youth coaching recently by request. Told everyone they would have to spend a month learning a new way and being diligent, that it would cost us at the beginning but we would find our way if they bought in. Last three games, 4-0, 8-0, 6-1 (u-12s). Last game we only let in a goal because we were two players down for the last 15 minutes due to knocks. The key? High-press, from the front and an excellent sweeper mopping up around the half-way line. It is all about hurrying the others side.

 

[Jordinho]

Klopp actually said something interesting. If you press high up the pitch you don't have to run all the way back every time you lose the ball.

 

[Kandi1977]

Don't see what all of the fuss is about, its a derby and hes put himself about, he didnt get sent off so why the big drama now? Lets praise his fantastic performance, he set the tone and it was a beautiful thing to see!

Totally agree! He didn't get sent off, and wasn't one moment he was close to it either! Only one yellow handed out all game, so it would have taken something really nasty for him to get sent off, or stopping a goalscoring opportunity, which I would happily accept. But he was never close to being sent off. Brilliant performance.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Klopp actually said something interesting. If you press high up the pitch you don't have to run all the way back every time you lose the ball.

It's probably the single biggest change In modern The game that allows lesser sides to best superior technical ones with the weight of effort

I try and get my 5 a side team to do it but duck me some people have a basketball mindset and just wanna leave the man with 5 yards of space on a small pitch

Pressing takes it out of you unless your super fit (I'm a lump) but I've seen even the worse players get results because they force the errors and they get turnover ball in much more dangerous positions

If you can get interceptions into the mix the speed you can turn that high defence into attack can be phenomenal and we do just that now

 

[thfcsteff]

It's probably the single biggest change In modern The game that allows lesser sides to best superior technical ones with the weight of effort

I try and get my 5 a side team to do it but duck me some people have a basketball mindset and just wanna leave the man with 5 yards of space on a small pitch

Pressing takes it out of you unless your super fit (I'm a lump) but I've seen even the worse players get results because they force the errors and they get turnover ball in much more dangerous positions

If you can get interceptions into the mix the speed you can turn that high defence into attack can be phenomenal and we do just that now

I agree with Klopp and you.
It is absolutely why I have my team doing it. This league has them playing 9-a-side on a virtually full-sized field! Pathetic! Becomes punt and run! Some of my side have barely played before, so it's all fundamentals right now, however the good thing is I have been able to teach them to work as a unit and see space as well as feet. But in order to make sure they don't get sucked into running marathons, the high-press 'play in the other team's half' is perfect. On the rare occasions when the other side is good enough to play the ball around us high up, covering players have been taught the right runs to make to cut off angles.

 

[alekaras]

It's probably the single biggest change In modern The game that allows lesser sides to best superior technical ones with the weight of effort

I try and get my 5 a side team to do it but duck me some people have a basketball mindset and just wanna leave the man with 5 yards of space on a small pitch

Pressing takes it out of you unless your super fit (I'm a lump) but I've seen even the worse players get results because they force the errors and they get turnover ball in much more dangerous positions

If you can get interceptions into the mix the speed you can turn that high defence into attack can be phenomenal and we do just that now

Agree. Just a matter of turning these situations into goals now and we'll be flying.

 

[Spurs7891]

Usually a draw at Arsenal is not at all a bad result and we can be proud of that. But when you consider the fact we dominated the match, scored first and conceded a late goal, this is a disappointing result. We played well and after taking the lead, had enough chances to kill the game off. But as usual, we lacked the cutting edge and it cost us all 3 points. We probably would have won this match had Arsenal scored first as we look more comfortable coming from a goal behind rather than defending a lead this season. Disappointly, this is almost a carbon copy of the result there last season, when Chadli scored early in the 2nd half but Arsenal scored a late equalizer in the 74th minute. Well, atleast we can be satisfied with the fact we are unbeaten against Arsenal in 3 league matches and are unbeaten in 11 league matches this season.

Credit to Kane for scoring his 6th goal in 4 matches and total 7 goals for the season. It was a well-taken one-on-one goal which he could have wasted when he was badly out of form earlier in the season. It is great to see him continuing his goal run. Hopefully he can emulate the 31 goals he scored last season or atleast score more than 20 goals this season. Too bad his goal was not enough to help us beat Arsenal. He could have scored at least 2 more goals if he had been more clinical in front of goal. Similiarly, others like Eriksen and Dier should have done better with the goal scoring chances they got. I think we could have won this match if we had gone 2-0 ahead, as Arsenal were struggling badly until their goal. Wish the likes of Eriksen, Dembele or Lamela had managed to score a goal. Disappointingly, we lacked a cutting edge to kill the game off.

Thought our midfield did really well and dominated for most of the match. Credit to Dier, Alli, Dembele and Lamela for not letting Arsenal settle down in midfield. Special mention to Lamela who were hassling all the Arsenal players including the goalie all around the field whenever they get anywhere near the ball. Too bad Lamela couldn't create or score for us as that would have been a fitting tribute for all his hard work. But Lamela was so effective in tackling that Arsenal only scored after he was replaced by Son. He probably would have tackled Ozil from making that cross that resulted in their goal.

Our defence would have had perfect mark if not for the late goal conceded. Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Rose and Walker had almost a perfect match to keep our Arsenal. Too bad about their goal as we could have stopped it. Lloris did well to make a great save early in the second half but he has to take the blame for their goal. He should not have been beaten at his near post like that. Thought he could have come out to collect the cross before it reached the Arsenal player. Other that that, we also had to ride our luck as Arsenal had 2 or 3 to score but wasted. And the goal posts came to our rescue yet again when Arsenal hit it in the 2nd half.

We really should have beaten Arsenal comfortably with all the chances we created. But atleast we managed to get a draw. With us being unbeaten in 11 league matches now, hope we will keep on improve our performances and results to achieve our goals this season.