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Tottenham Hotspur Stadium - Licence To Stand


That's just it. Relaying such wiring, while difficult, wouldn't be 6 months work. The Twit says 6 weeks in his other posts. It wouldn't be everywhere, just in isolated areas. I'd suggest that there could also be issues with the design of the systems that need adjusting. Something more than just replacing cabeling.
 
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Daisuk said:
I thought they tested the speakers and stadium lights the other day, and it looked fine. But what do I know. His info sounds plausible overall.
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Stac will be referring to the fire alarm speakers. Modern systems give out audible instructions per zone rather than an alarm.
 
Safety systems will be including things like Fire Alarms, sprinkler systems, heating and cooling, emergency lighting, emergency communications, CCTV, roller shutters, automatic door locks, elevators and so on - all seperate specialized systems which need to link in and and work together. Speaking as someone who is an installer rather than a designer id hazard a guess that communications between the seperate systems is most likely to be the issue here as IME integration is where most issues arise.

If one component doesn't talk to the rest how it should then potentially you're looking at running new cables throughout the whole job, not so bad if spotted at an early phase of the build but if it's at the last minute where many areas are signed off as complete then it's a going to hurt
 
SpurMeUp said:
What I take from that is there is a whole load of things that need doing/ finishing. All part of the internal fitout, and it's taken a lot longer than expected.
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I think that @billyiddo has done a good job of explaining how that might not be the case a couple of times this afternoon. He knows far more about this than me, so you'd probably be better off ignoring my speculative posts and replying to his informed ones.
 
milo said:
I think that @billyiddo has done a good job of explaining how that might not be the case a couple of times this afternoon. He knows far more about this than me, so you'd probably be better off ignoring my speculative posts and replying to his informed ones.
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SpurMeUp said:
I'd suggest that there could also be issues with the design of the systems that need adjusting. Something more than just replacing cabeling.
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As Billy also said above, more than just replacing wiring.

Quite simply it looks like there are a bunch of things to finish - that need wiring - from the Spark you quote who was onsite.
 
SpurMeUp said:
As Billy also said above, more than just replacing wiring.

Quite simply there are a bunch of things to finish - that need wiring - from the Spark you quote who was onsite.
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I think that the club's statement just said safety systems. I haven't seen anything that suggests this is wrong or that it was known about earlier.
 
milo said:
@Bedfordspurs is probably best placed to comment on that. I would've thought that stripping out and refitting all of the cabling for the safety systems was a pretty big undertaking.
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Honestly... if their stripping out (I’d be stunned) then it’s typxially the originally Install period which would be possibly as short as 3 months on a build like this, plus a follow up team putting in new and or making good... 5 months total maybe

You also have the clashing of services and other trades which is horrendous

I genuinely haven’t found out anything despite asking all the big OEMs so really don’t know what is actually being done but anything around BMS systems, life critical safety systems, telemetry and data can be awful as its funding the faults in miles of cabling
 
We can’t get sign off until they have done a cause and effect test which is zoned for fire regs. That’s every zone tested with people in those zones. They test for how the alarms work (noise and PA) plus how the exits work. That’s for each every zone in the building and I’d guess they have maybe a 100
 
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Maybe capping Wembley is a good idea, if there are less gaps and a little less supply it might ease the Wembley fatigue / football tourist factor.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Honestly... if their stripping out (I’d be stunned) then it’s typxially the originally Install period which would be possibly as short as 3 months on a build like this, plus a follow up team putting in new and or making good... 5 months total maybe

You also have the clashing of services and other trades which is horrendous

I genuinely haven’t found out anything despite asking all the big OEMs so really don’t know what is actually being done but anything around BMS systems, life critical safety systems, telemetry and data can be awful as its funding the faults in miles of cabling
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Appreciate these insights.

Do you think it can be proved what’s the ultimate root cause was, if it’s poor project management then that at least helps us understand where things could be improved but if someone has willfully sabotaged safety systems then i’d hope there could be a way if identifying them, making a claim against any insurance they or their firm have and instigate some criminal proceedings to prevent something with a more sinister intent happening somewhere else. Can one person really do this much damage to a project like this undetected?
 
MKSpur said:
Appreciate these insights.

Do you think it can be proved what’s the ultimate root cause was, if it’s poor project management then that at least helps us understand where things could be improved but if someone has willfully sabotaged safety systems then i’d hope there could be a way if identifying them, making a claim against any insurance they or their firm have and instigate some criminal proceedings to prevent something with a more sinister intent happening somewhere else. Can one person really do this much damage to a project like this undetected?
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Depends on the fault finding but even the best Project management can’t take into account something technically being wrong as these things don’t come out until tested

Only thing I would add that depending on the system they can be self diagnostic as you install and test

One thing I will say is that I would never ever have gone with mace. Their a good company but are all about show sites and have very little experience in this scale of project stadium which wise

They built the shard IIRC so know their stuff but that’s ultimately a linear building using tried and tested tech and startegy

Stadiums are notoriously difficult as the structures are all bespoke and the technology moves on each build. With tower blocks for example you do what you have done previous mainly with the difference being glass for example
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Depends on the fault finding but even the best Project management can’t take into account something technically being wrong as these things don’t come out until tested

Only thing I would add that depending on the system they can be self diagnostic as you install and test

One thing I will say is that I would never ever have gone with mace. Their a good company but are all about show sites and have very little experience in this scale of project stadium which wise

They built the shard IIRC so know their stuff but that’s ultimately a linear building using tried and tested tech and startegy

Stadiums are notoriously difficult as the structures are all bespoke and the technology moves on each build. With tower blocks for example you do what you have done previous mainly with the difference being glass for example
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Thanks again. I guess I’m over simplifying it as I don’t work in the industry but with so much at stake financially it baffles me how we could end up believing / stating we were so close and then discovering such a large setback if it was a known potential risk. Like you say it is a unique build and the tec side even more so and I’d read we weren’t able / didn’t tie in any delivery time with cost and there are probably too many well paid people to ever find out what really went wrong (and letting us believe it was sabotage as opposed to any project failing!)
 
MKSpur said:
Thanks again. I guess I’m over simplifying it as I don’t work in the industry but with so much at stake financially it baffles me how we could end up believing / stating we were so close and then discovering such a large setback if it was a known potential risk. Like you say it is a unique build and the tec side even more so and I’d read we weren’t able / didn’t tie in any delivery time with cost and there are probably too many well paid people to ever find out what really went wrong (and letting us believe it was sabotage as opposed to any project failing!)
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Comes down to what you get told by the subbies all along and how you sign it off

I work for myself but now working with clients advising them on construction and FM and you would be shocked at how little most know and take in trust form their contractors as their big brands..

We were advised that we couldn’t get subbies to sign up to terms that would have mitigated delays (liquid ascertained damages need valuing and proving) as the risk to them would have been huge which I get. In reality though they could insure against some of it if we paid enough and now it would have paid back

But it’s a gamble that’s calculated more than anything with so many variables... in the U.K. awe have major issues with weather (which worked in the clubs favour so far). Material supply is a challenge logistically and labour is always driven by £££
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Comes down to what you get told by the subbies all along and how you sign it off

I work for myself but now working with clients advising them on construction and FM and you would be shocked at how little most know and take in trust form their contractors as their big brands..

We were advised that we couldn’t get subbies to sign up to terms that would have mitigated delays (liquid ascertained damages need valuing and proving) as the risk to them would have been huge which I get. In reality though they could insure against some of it if we paid enough and now it would have paid back

But it’s a gamble that’s calculated more than anything with so many variables... in the U.K. awe have major issues with weather (which worked in the clubs favour so far). Material supply is a challenge logistically and labour is always driven by £££
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My understanding is that there were big penalty clauses on the contracts on the stadium. You'd assume that Mace (or their insurers) are bearing the brunt of these but the subby I have spoken to said that his firm was carrying a lot. They were late on site, so I would assume that they would try and fight any claim against them on those grounds.
 
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