Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Do you think all gigs should be seating? With appropriate capacities, venue design and staffing, mass-standing events can be just as safe.
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Tottenham Hotspur Stadium - Licence To Stand
- Thread starter Jordinho
- Start date
Do you think all gigs should be seating? With appropriate capacities, venue design and staffing, mass-standing events can be just as safe.
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
They appear to have given up trying to discourage standing in the Park Lane lower altogether for now, which is fine by me. I don't much mind whether I sit or stand, personally, but I want to do one or the other; I don't want to be up and down like a sodding yoyo in some puerile battle of wills.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
You are going off on one here. There are more safety concerns on the concourse than in the stand with rail seating. And I'm not ignoring the safety concerns in the stands, it's just that in this debate they should be no longer a major factor in the decision making process.
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K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
The problem is the type of people attending. Yes I do think some people going to football are flawed and there are confrontational issue, but as much as I'm concerned about myself and family others are as passionate about being able to do what they want. You just need to walk down and High Street and see the lack of care people have for others and themselves, I daily see people walking out in to the road as they are wrapped in conversation on smart phones and young women walking along 2 abreast pushing child-carriers. I have little faith in crowds behaving in an orderly manner in certain situations. Nobody can predict what is going to happen when large crowds are concerned. I would have thought that attending a match at Dortmund would have been a piece of cake as the Germans are usually well prepared and are use to big crowds, but there were problems and they could have been a worse outcome.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
Yes I am.
rxl
Øyvind Leonhardsen
Sorry to wade in, so are your concerns about safe standing terraces, or just the unpredictability of the human race? If it's the latter - there are many more 'right-minded' folk about than not. If there is an idiot or group of idiots intent on causing harm it wouldn't matter if you are in an all seater, safe standing or even in an open playing field...
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
jts1882
Dean Richards
So surely that is a reason to want standing areas designed for standing instead of the current situation where people stand in seated areas, which is much more dangerous. No one is talking about a return to the old terraced stands.
I don't know how typical they are, but the Liverpool fans on Skyscrapercity seem quite keen on safe standing in a renovated Kop. Given the push for cheaper tickets from Liverpool fans, they could put pressure on the club. A lot of other owners will quite happily dismiss it on safety grounds because they realise its not a money-spinner, but, if Liverpool tried it first, it could catch on. With Klopp as their manager some Liverpool fans see a Dortmund style Kop as their right.
Lemonade Money
Les Medley
Not sure a child would see much in a safe standing area.
mephitis
Niko Kranjcar
Surely a "Safe Standing Area" is just that, "An Area". I don't think anyone's suggesting the whole ground should be like this, just a designated area where like minded people can stand, allowing those that get tinkled off by the bloke in front constantly obstructing their view to sit in peace. (Yes, I realise you don't go to footie for peace :] ). People should be allowed to make an educated choice about what risks they are allowed to take. Personally I'd happily sign an "Own Risk" rider to stand.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
You'd have to think if it got some sort of traction in Liverpool of all places then that would open the floodgates for a wider adoption.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
We are all someones child
Craig_J
Mido
Have you looked into safe standing yourself? It's completely different from the old school terraces. For a starters there's barriers at every level (not 'crush barriers' the same barriers you see now that seats make) which prevent people from rushing forward. But most importantly there's a capacity, designed to be safe, of people you let in which is 2 for every seat. One of the key flaws of old school terracing was letting in an unlimited amount of people. How that was never seen I have no idea...
I would have to find the link and add it in later after work but the FSF once spoke to someone in charge of the Bundesliga and asked him for death records for safe standing since they were forced to implement it (seats were needed for European competition) in 1998.
He said they didn't keep a record of them as there had been none at all. When asked for a record for injuries he said again, none had been reported and so they never kept them. He said there may have been unreported minor injuries from hitting your legs etc. against the rails whilst celebrating but that can happen even in seated areas (I have suffered a decent amount of bruises)
In a book called 'A Choice to Watch Football' they looked at figures posted by the home office, with arrest and banning order figures, and found that arrests and banning orders were higher at the league one and league two clubs with seating compared to the grounds that had standing.
The only argument you're making is that something might happen because there's a lot of people. So should we ban people attending football as something might happen? Ban people waiting at train stations because something might happen? Come to think of it I've felt more crushed on some London busses than I ever have at football so should we ban buses because something might happen?
Should we ban boats and cruise ships? After all look at what happened on the Titanic. Happened once so could definantly happen again. Ban all boats to prevent another tradgedy such as the titanic? Of course not. Bad management caused that. The Titanic was greedy and looking to set a speed record. Football clubs were greedy in letting as many people pay at the gates as they wish. Since the Titanic relevant procedures have been taken and as far as I know nothing like the Titanic has happened since.
The children you speak off are much more likely to die going to/ from football using the method of transport that brought them there than they ever are at the game itself so will you now start advocating banning children from using any form of transport?
The arguments in favour of safe standing are almost never ending. The only argument against is 'Something might happen because we used to have something that was different and it happened with that'.
AjaxDeSuperYids
Drama queen
I know enough about this to be able to say it's introduction is absolutely inevitable.
A bit like goal line technology it's only a matter of time.
A few more years it looks like to me but will definitely happen.
A bit like goal line technology it's only a matter of time.
A few more years it looks like to me but will definitely happen.
Those are words that could only be spoken by a man who has little or no contact with Liverpool fans.
JerusalemMan
Chris Perry
I feel you credit them with too much influence. There's only so long progress can be road-blocked
Craig_J
Mido
Scara, I do have to say that I'm quite surprised that you seem to support safe standing. Out of interest is it something that you would like to do yourself or just something you think other people should be able to do if they choose to?
In general, I don't think that people should be told what they can and can't do as long as that thing is reasonable and doesn't hurt others.
I prefer to either have a seat or something to lean on - when stadia were terraced I used to stand in front of the crush barrier and lean back.
I would prefer to spend most of a match sitting but be able to stand whenever I wish (allowing for consideration for those behind me). If a steward is telling me and others to sit though, I'll stand all day.