Tom Carroll

[Bullet]

Agree on those I like Pilkington at Norwich

Indeed, people turn their noses up at players from Norwich, Villa, Wigan but there are lots of good players there who have shown great promise in the Premiership. Just because your team is near the bottom, it doesn't make all the players useless.

Remember Man United took Jones from Blackburn and Smalling from Fulham, Valencia from Wigan etc.

 

[braineclipse]

Can't see that happening, unless there's an option to buy. A well-managed decent Premier League club (which Swansea are at the moment) would never build their midfield around a single on-loan player. That's going to be Carroll's problem - to do well, he needs to be at the centre of things in a passing side, so perhaps a ball-playing team chasing promotion from the Championship. Possibly Southampton or Reading, if one of them stays up.

I agree about Swansea, they also have a decent selection of good enough central midfielders already.

Some of the teams you mention, perhaps Wigan or Fulham could be possible. To be able to secure a loan like that he probably has to get involved quite a bit more for the rest of this season.

Indeed, people turn their noses up at players from Norwich, Villa, Wigan but there are lots of good players there who have shown great promise in the Premiership. Just because your team is near the bottom, it doesn't make all the players useless.

Remember Man United took Jones from Blackburn and Smalling from Fulham, Valencia from Wigan etc.

I agree. United have done several good deals from "smaller clubs". It's about finding the right player at the right price.

 

[Alaric]

I am glad Carroll did well last night, I have only seen highlights of the game so hard to judge. I rember thinking he did very well, given the circumstances, in the match at goons earlier in the year. I am curious what people think about his defense though. What little I have seen of him, he looked a little lost when we didn't have possession. Also, I wonder if the fact that he is now being brought on means Hudd's days are numbered.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I am glad Carroll did well last night, I have only seen highlights of the game so hard to judge. I rember thinking he did very well, given the circumstances, in the match at goons earlier in the year. I am curious what people think about his defense though. What little I have seen of him, he looked a little lost when we didn't have possession. Also, I wonder if the fact that he is now being brought on means Hudd's days are numbered.

Yep his big chance came in the autumn and he fluffed it. Think we can do as well to sell hud for whatever we can get for him and bring carroll into the squad, same goes with parker and livermore.

 

[braineclipse]

I am glad Carroll did well last night, I have only seen highlights of the game so hard to judge. I rember thinking he did very well, given the circumstances, in the match at goons earlier in the year. I am curious what people think about his defense though. What little I have seen of him, he looked a little lost when we didn't have possession. Also, I wonder if the fact that he is now being brought on means Hudd's days are numbered.

I think it was Sherwood that said last season that the only player who runs more than Carroll in the first team squad is Livermore. Not unlike Modric I think Carroll will be able to do a job defensively primarily by just getting right side of the ball and doing his job positionally every time. I don't think he looks lost defensively, but he's clearly at a disadvantage physically and not used to the PL tempo or physicality yet.

It is a slight worry for him, it seems that his best role is as a central (/deep) midfielder. Could be that he in time could develop into an attacking midfielder or wide man, but I can't quite see it at this time. It also seems that this is where both AVB and Redknapp have wanted to use him and it seems likely that they both thought of that as his best position going forward. It is a position that is tough to play in the Premiership if you're physically small and on the weak side, not impossible, but it does pose some real challenges.

Hopefully it will sort itself out and he will get naturally stronger without losing his athleticism or speed.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think it was Sherwood that said last season that the only player who runs more than Carroll in the first team squad is Livermore. Not unlike Modric I think Carroll will be able to do a job defensively primarily by just getting right side of the ball and doing his job positionally every time. I don't think he looks lost defensively, but he's clearly at a disadvantage physically and not used to the PL tempo or physicality yet.

You mean play like Alonso does. He said himself that in Spain your not taught to tackle just to defend by intercepting and by getting into the right position. It's the safest and most accurate way too

I've coached young lads this way for a while and they don't understand it as others tell them to make the bloody tackles.

He could easily play like that in this side with a box to box player alongside him and dembele (Sandro is that man)

 

[Spur of the moment]

You mean play like Alonso does. He said himself that in Spain your not taught to tackle just to defend by intercepting and by getting into the right position. It's the safest and most accurate way too

I've coached young lads this way for a while and they don't understand it as others tell them to make the bloody tackles.

He could easily play like that in this side with a box to box player alongside him and dembele (Sandro is that man)

You mean alongside someone who does make the bloody tackles? Oh the irony :lol:

Sorry, agree with your thrust really, just couldn't resist.

 

[braineclipse]

You mean play like Alonso does. He said himself that in Spain your not taught to tackle just to defend by intercepting and by getting into the right position. It's the safest and most accurate way too

I've coached young lads this way for a while and they don't understand it as others tell them to make the bloody tackles.

He could easily play like that in this side with a box to box player alongside him and dembele (Sandro is that man)

Alonso is a lot better defensively than he gets credit for. He's taller and much stronger than Carroll and he's a good tackler.

That being said though, yes. Carroll could and should look to players like him, very technical players who play those deep playmaker roles and see how they solve the defensive side of things. The player he should probably model himself on if he can is still Modric in my opinion. They're quite similar physically I think, although Modric was obviously stronger and had better balance when he was slotted into our PL central midfield compared to Carroll now. Modric ended up forming great partnerships with Sandro and Parker, but also with a player like Huddlestone who isn't exactly a pure defensive midfielder. If Carroll can develop similarly defensively I think he can become a great player.

 

[metalgear]

Carroll just seems content to play on safely at a consistent speed, without taking any chances. safe player but so far i'm not impressed. we do have a very good and dynamic midfield so perhaps that would make him above average by normal standards, but he'll have to develop his style and learn to stamp his mark on games to deserve a starting slot.

 

[diego_maradona]

Carroll just seems content to play on safely at a consistent speed, without taking any chances. safe player but so far i'm not impressed. we do have a very good and dynamic midfield so perhaps that would make him above average by normal standards, but he'll have to develop his style and learn to stamp his mark on games to deserve a starting slot.

But next to other players who want to be expansive or simply lack that simple passing ability, Carroll is a decent option. Sometimes for the balance of the team you need someone who will just feed the dangerous players the ball. Carroll did it so simply and yet effectively against WHam. Lennon suddenly became more involved.

 

[AdamB]

Carroll just seems content to play on safely at a consistent speed, without taking any chances. safe player but so far i'm not impressed. we do have a very good and dynamic midfield so perhaps that would make him above average by normal standards, but he'll have to develop his style and learn to stamp his mark on games to deserve a starting slot.

Agree that he needs to develop, however its unlikely that someone is going to come into a PL game as akid and start dominating matching and waltzing past players. I dont see why he cant develop into a Carrick or Modric type player - both play in deep midfield roles and are there to retain possession and keep the ball moving. Neither get into the box much or are aggressive tacklers or even go to ground much. Neither Carrick or Modric take chances or are particularly dynamic; Carroll doesnt need to be if he wants to be a similar player

 

[braineclipse]

Carroll just seems content to play on safely at a consistent speed, without taking any chances. safe player but so far i'm not impressed. we do have a very good and dynamic midfield so perhaps that would make him above average by normal standards, but he'll have to develop his style and learn to stamp his mark on games to deserve a starting slot.

You make "consistent speed" sound like a bad thing. He's consistently passing the ball quickly, one or two touches the majority of the time. And he's doing so accurately. That's a very good thing.

Other than Holtby I struggle to think of any players we have that passes the ball quicker (and better) than him. I think that's why AVB put him on when he put him on, we needed to keep our tempo up as we were desperate for goals and he came on to do just that.

I don't think it's fair to say that he's content to play on safely either. Certainly not if compared to Parker and Sandro. I suppose you can argue that Dembele looks to take players on and as such is willing to accept more risks, but as far as passing is concerned I don't think Carroll is any more content to play on safely than any of our central midfielders bar Huddlestone. Not including Holtby in that as he hasn't played as a central midfielder yet.

 

[Raziel]

Amazing statement of confidence in Carroll by AVB, a goal down, crucial 3 points in terms of season impact, and he brings him on.

Interesting to see if we could fit Carroll and Holtby in the same squad, both quick passers of the ball, question would be how lightweight would we be.

 

[FatBloke]

Agree that he needs to develop, however its unlikely that someone is going to come into a PL game as akid and start dominating matching and waltzing past players. I dont see why he cant develop into a Carrick or Modric type player - both play in deep midfield roles and are there to retain possession and keep the ball moving. Neither get into the box much or are aggressive tacklers or even go to ground much. Neither Carrick or Modric take chances or are particularly dynamic; Carroll doesnt need to be if he wants to be a similar player

This. Who was it who described Carrick as "like a washing machine"? Turning dirty passes into clean ones.

The midfield metronomes, the dull distributors, the water carriers. So under-rated, but so important.

 

[metalgear]

Not saying that Carroll has no potential, just giving my view from what I see. If I were to project his trajectory from what I've seem, I'd say he'll be turning into a joe Allen. Pretty good player, but not sure if he would just walk into our midfield of bale Lennon Sandro and dembele. Oh, and I wouldn't call carrick and modric dull, they were extremely skillful in their own ways.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Carroll can also spot a penetrative through ball before anyone says he is just a metronome - there was a great first time pass in the Europa League this season that cut apart whoever we were playing against.

 

[Mumorn]

Carroll can also spot a penetrative through ball before anyone says he is just a metronome - there was a great first time pass in the Europa League this season that cut apart whoever we were playing against.

Lazio to Bale, who then rounded the keeper and scored only to be wrongly ruled offside.

 

[Fuego]

(Swansea Villa Norwich Wigan Southampton West Ham)

There's a reason those clubs are down there - their players are poor. Unless its an up and coming youngster, there are very very few players from those teams which I would be interested in. (cue lots of people mentioning Michu....)

Not even close. Look at Wigan, they had Baines, Valencia, Moses, etc... Players that play for top PL sides now. West Ham had Parker when they went down and we got our player of the season for the next year.

Swansea are better than Liverpool although not as good as Everton, so it's unfair to even put them on that list. To even bother going through their list of players would be pointless as they have many that are more than capable of playing for a top club, I'd say they have about half a dozen... Also, you have to put into context the qualities of certain players, none of the Stoke players would get into Barca's team not even Begovic the keeper plenty of top teams are interested in... But you can take Vorm, Williams, etc out of Swansea and put them in the Barca team and they'd have the required qualities to make them fit... Teams look for qualities in players, it's not as simple as X is better than X... The Barca example requires a goalkeeper that is better with his feet than some PL midfielders, you cannot simply take any good shot stopper a put him in there.

As I said though, Swansea in that list is beyond crazy, if they don't have the required quality then the majority of the PL doesn't.

But the reason many teams are down there is not the simple "all their players suck", which you seem to think. Sometimes it's because 7 players suck, sometimes it's because their manager or chairman sucks, sometimes it's because they have a squad of 12 players and three injuries means they have to play people from the youth team.

QPR are at the bottom of the league, do you truly believe all their players are awful and wouldn't get into better teams? QPR's problem largely comes from buying players from top teams that weren't good enough.

As for the other teams mentioned in that list, they all have a couple of decent players... Southampton have a bunch. I would take three or four players from them right now.

Don't be so quick to dismiss the clubs that are "down there"... Saudi Sportswashing Machine are down there and they have plenty of players that are very good. But I'm sure I could make a team out of players that play for teams down there that would destroy most PL teams.

I'm not sure how you cannot rate players that aren't at the top of the league.... A little while ago people were trying to decide who would win out of a Manchester XI vs a London XI... Manchester XI would beat us, but the vast majority of people put Berbatov in their side as the best striker in London. It's hard to argue with that right now. Maybe when Lukaku comes back from loan at West Brom, he might get the nod, but is West Brom down there too?

Sandro, our hero, has a wonderful defensive record, but it is bettered by a Southampton player. That's not to say Southampton has the better DM, but it's madness to consider him not good enough just based on who he plays for. (A side that can beat City.) Most players start off at weak clubs, I understand you'd consider young players from these teams (which is a good thing else Bale would still be at Southampton), but to just say they must have bad players to be down there is mind boggling.

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Tom Carroll is awesome, the best part about Harry's Europa League strategy was seeing players like Carroll. It was good to see him be part of the West Ham game, I've always liked him.

Also worried that a midfield of parker carroll could potentially be lightweight,

Carroll has always reminded me of Modric, so I'm not too worried about that. I don't think Carroll will be used that regularly this season, so Sandro should be back in the future.

It is a slight worry for him, it seems that his best role is as a central (/deep) midfielder. Could be that he in time could develop into an attacking midfielder or wide man, but I can't quite see it at this time. It also seems that this is where both AVB and Redknapp have wanted to use him and it seems likely that they both thought of that as his best position going forward. It is a position that is tough to play in the Premiership if you're physically small and on the weak side, not impossible, but it does pose some real challenges.

There's no reason to use him as a wide midfielder. Passers should be in the middle. He's a CM, we can use him in a 4-2-3-1 without real issues. We have so many AMs that we're better off with him as CM anyway. Also, we have no idea of his shooting ability vs PL teams, it's hard to say if he could play AM atm... That said, deeper suits his passing anyway.

I hate that. Harry played Modric out wide, moved him into the middle then acted like he had just made the scientific discovery of the century because "people said he was too small to play CM". Leon Britton does fine and he's really short. Carroll played against one of the most physical teams in the PL and did fine.

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For the record, it's not just the safe passes he plays, it's usually the right passes. He can play long passes too and he seems to try through-balls often. Even this season against Maribor his assist for Defoe was a first time pass... http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/spurs-3-maribor-1-all-goals/

The sad thing is, a lot of the time with us, we haven't needed huge defence splitting 60 yard curling passes, we've often just needed quick, simple passes. Carroll can do the difficult passes too, but it was crazy to see that Lennon can actually be passed to. I'd love for more Spurs players to notice this.

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He could easily play like that in this side with a box to box player alongside him and dembele (Sandro is that man)

Nope. Sandro is the DM that sits. The furthest midfielder forward has to score goals or get a hell of a lot of assists, Carroll does get assists but I think Bale is going to have that furthest forward position claimed for a while... Carroll is best suited to being the middle one, passers usually go there. Modric did for us.

Carroll's biggest problem is being a deep lying playmaker. He's going to have to be very very very good to nail a starting place in a top side in that role, yet he offers us something not many others in our squad offer. It'd be nice to have him on the bench for the rest of the season rather than forgotten about while we have a bunch of CBs on the bench. If Holtby starts, we don't have the option of bringing a passer on from the bench... What I really really really hope for is that Carroll and Holtby can build up a good understanding. It would be amazing if they were on the level that they could plan a couple of steps ahead. The ability to know how the pitch will look in 3-5 seconds is priceless.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Lazio to Bale, who then rounded the keeper and scored only to be wrongly ruled offside.

Ahh yes, forgot about that. Fuego's just linked up the one I was thinking of.

Carroll is awesome, would love to see him play more next season. He and Livermore really impressed on Monday. Massive game, needing 3 points in a highly pressurised environment and 2 academy products are trusted to hold the midfield for us. Amazing confidence from AVB and both Carroll and Livermore stepped up with composure.

 

[thfcsteff]

Amazing statement of confidence in Carroll by AVB, a goal down, crucial 3 points in terms of season impact, and he brings him on.

Interesting to see if we could fit Carroll and Holtby in the same squad, both quick passers of the ball, question would be how lightweight would we be.

Fantastic player management. No-one nows his squad better than AVB...thankfully! Addressing Brain's point above, agree mate, agree...there are those who believed Livermore was not good enough, etc. I think he's a fine squad player, the question will be whether that's enough for him...