And Onomah isn't a CM
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Tom Carroll
- Thread starter Midfield Maestro
- Start date
And Onomah isn't a CM
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
That's actually a lesser objection: if Poch really wanted to include Onomah, he'd have put him in at AM and shifted Alli back into the double pivot with Dier. But clearly, he had good reasons for selecting Carroll: that particular decision wasn't really a fault of his given that the mental fragility on display today couldn't have been something he planned for, despite its worrying resurgence in recent games.
I agree with this and cant see him getting enough games to want to stay much longer than another 18 months. Was a surprising decision to play him today, rather than Alli in CM and Son further forward
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
El Guepardo
Rafael Van Der Vaart
But he's 23, isn't actually that good & isn't as good as Onomah.
This map highlights the problem I have with carroll
http://epl.squawka.com/tottenham-ho...-2015/english-barclays-premier-league/matches
Have a look at where his passes were today - lots sideways or in completely unthreatening positions. Not one successful pass into the box. Only one 20-30 yard forward pass into an attacking area and that failed. Yet he's meant to be our creative CM....he doesn't do enough with his passing ability
http://epl.squawka.com/tottenham-ho...-2015/english-barclays-premier-league/matches
Have a look at where his passes were today - lots sideways or in completely unthreatening positions. Not one successful pass into the box. Only one 20-30 yard forward pass into an attacking area and that failed. Yet he's meant to be our creative CM....he doesn't do enough with his passing ability
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Don't think he' worse than Onomah, per se: he's just the safer option.
I don't think he's the one responsible for today's loss: he was fine up until he started flagging around the sixty-minute mark, and we barely noticed his featherweight attempts at defending because we generally spent the first half at least somewhat comfortably. We comprehensively lost the midfield battle when he was subbed off, and I'm not sure if that's because of him going off or because his replacement (Alli) also had a sh*te game.
The point about Alli is fair, however all the attention will be on Carroll given it was an unusual choice to start
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
True, and it's understandable enough. I'm just pointing out that, despite the unusual selection, Carroll himself didn't do much that led to our loss: every one of our players turned into soft sacks of sh*te at about the same rate, and he had a decent enough game when we were on top prior to that.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
That's not his fault though and he didn't do anything wrong that I saw
Alli didn't step up when dropping back and looked lost
IMO, it would have been a different game if Son started. It was too difficult for him to get into the game because the performance had turned to sh1t by the time he came on. Start Alli deep and Son at 10, we'd have put more pressure on them and got the job done imo.
Carroll was ok first half, but we seemed to go out 2nd half and look to sit on the 1-0 and break. But Carroll isn't suited for that, he's not great at carrying the ball from deep. Even an off-colour Alli can do better in that regard.
Ultimately I don't think Carroll has the technical quality to make up for the lack of athleticism, you have to be top notch to play centre mid with his lack of speed and strength.
For today though, I just think Poch made a tactical error with how we approached the 2nd half, compounded by the players putting in a brick performance.
Carroll was ok first half, but we seemed to go out 2nd half and look to sit on the 1-0 and break. But Carroll isn't suited for that, he's not great at carrying the ball from deep. Even an off-colour Alli can do better in that regard.
Ultimately I don't think Carroll has the technical quality to make up for the lack of athleticism, you have to be top notch to play centre mid with his lack of speed and strength.
For today though, I just think Poch made a tactical error with how we approached the 2nd half, compounded by the players putting in a brick performance.
I don't think he was any worse than Kane, Eriksen or Alli (and only marginally worse than Dier) however Carroll's poor performance is more noticeable because its a key position and unusual selection. Hopefully we'll have Dembele and/or Mason back soon
By the way, did you have a look at his passing map which I posted above? For a creative midfielder, its dreadful
Where do you get your evidence from? Jesus I've seen both play a fair bit and they are different players. It's commenrs like this that anger me
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Not yet
I don't actually think of Carroll as a creative midfielder either, that role for me sits with eriksen lamella and Alli today who were all pretty poor
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
Carroll was not the reason why we lost this game. He, like a number of players, had an off day. It happens, especially with a young team. How this team responds will be key. Carroll, imho, is worth a contract extension.
ringo
Tim Sherwood
I find it surprising that Carroll is getting so much stick for his performance today.
He was on the pitch when we dominated during large parts of the first half.
When he was taken off we conceded two goals.
Had he stayed on we might have conceded as many or more, or scored more. But I don't think we can blame him for the goals we conceded while he was sat on the bench!
Plus there were plenty of other players who weren't at their best today.
And, as to him being too lightweight to play in midfield, David Silva weighs 4kg less, Mata 10kg less, Iniesta 6kg less, Adam Lallana is 2kg more, it is about strength and a bunch of other things too. You don't need to be Yaya Toure to be a good midfielder.
There have been times when Kane never looked as if he would break through to top standard. Lamela has looked woeful at times. I think it takes more than one start to write a player off at this level, who obviously has some talent as he demonstrated against Monaco, and has for England.
He was on the pitch when we dominated during large parts of the first half.
When he was taken off we conceded two goals.
Had he stayed on we might have conceded as many or more, or scored more. But I don't think we can blame him for the goals we conceded while he was sat on the bench!
Plus there were plenty of other players who weren't at their best today.
And, as to him being too lightweight to play in midfield, David Silva weighs 4kg less, Mata 10kg less, Iniesta 6kg less, Adam Lallana is 2kg more, it is about strength and a bunch of other things too. You don't need to be Yaya Toure to be a good midfielder.
There have been times when Kane never looked as if he would break through to top standard. Lamela has looked woeful at times. I think it takes more than one start to write a player off at this level, who obviously has some talent as he demonstrated against Monaco, and has for England.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
People need to remember the guy has only had a few months under Poch.
Last season he played under Gary Monk completely different to Poch's style
and the season before it was Redknapp at QPR and before that it was AVB.
He isn't exactly suited to Pochettino's way either so is doing well to get anywhere near his team after a few months.
Wimmer is the same age and has the same amount of time under Poch but everyone here seems happy to give him time.
Last season he played under Gary Monk completely different to Poch's style
and the season before it was Redknapp at QPR and before that it was AVB.
He isn't exactly suited to Pochettino's way either so is doing well to get anywhere near his team after a few months.
Wimmer is the same age and has the same amount of time under Poch but everyone here seems happy to give him time.