Toby Alderweireld

[AdamB]

I think that two areas where your thinking is out of sync with Poch is that he values flexibility in players and he is less wedded to a fixed formation.

I think flexibility is definitely helpful, but to state the obvious each player can only play in one position at a time so counting the same player for more than one position has its limitations. The issue which I see with our current squad is that we only have 5 senior players (TA, JV, ED, DS and VW) for whom CM or DM is their primary position. In any game we either have 3 or 4 players in those positions, which means it doesnt take much before you have to move players away from their primary position (eg Davies from LB) or play a younger player (eg Foyth). Winks did brilliantly in a holding role in the Bernabeu but that was a real surprise rather than expected. Personally I thought signing someone in the summer in the say 22-24 year old range with top flight experience would have made more sense than signing Foyth (and because ED to me always looks better as a CM rather than CB) but perhaps he'll develop quickly, and anyway we seem to have made the decision to back him for that role now so we probably wont get another CB for anohter 18 months or so and only if he doesnt develop. He's looked composed in the cup games he's played

re formations, I said recently in another thread that we should go 4-2-3-1 in a number of games, particularly against weaker teams such that we get more attacking threats on the pitch, so not wedded to 3 at the back in the slightest

 

[milo]

I think flexibility is definitely helpful, but to state the obvious each player can only play in one position at a time so counting the same player for more than one position has its limitations. The issue which I see with our current squad is that we only have 5 senior players (TA, JV, ED, DS and VW) for whom CM or DM is their primary position. In any game we either have 3 or 4 players in those positions, which means it doesnt take much before you have to move players away from their primary position (eg Davies from LB) or play a younger player (eg Foyth). Winks did brilliantly in a holding role in the Bernabeu but that was a real surprise rather than expected. Personally I thought signing someone in the summer in the say 22-24 year old range with top flight experience would have made more sense than signing Foyth (and because ED to me always looks better as a CM rather than CB) but perhaps he'll develop quickly, and anyway we seem to have made the decision to back him for that role now so we probably wont get another CB for anohter 18 months or so and only if he doesnt develop. He's looked composed in the cup games he's played

re formations, I said recently in another thread that we should go 4-2-3-1 in a number of games, particularly against weaker teams such that we get more attacking threats on the pitch, so not wedded to 3 at the back in the slightest

I think that we have moved a little beyond having a dedicated DM now and am more than happy to see us line up with two of Winks, Dele or Dembele in central midfield. Again flexibility in the squad gives us more opt, not less.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Mate you've done the same thing as the previous poster and ignored the fact that Sanchez and Foyth were new signings that people thought we didn't need because we were already well stocked in defence - Adam and myself argued that we needed strengthening, which we did do by buying Sanchez and Foyth.

The fact Sanchez has been an almost ever present in the side which has allowed Dier to cover Dembele/Wanyama in midfield whilst keeping the same setup going is a perfect example of what we were saying back in the summer

Adams been saying we are exposed now because of Tobies injury (ie post signings, we are still a bit short) .

Are you saying that or are you just looking for vindication of your summer position?

And are the numbers the same, but the quality is better.? I think Adam is saying we need another CB?

 

[billyiddo]

Adams been saying we are exposed now because of Tobies injury (ie post signings, we are still a bit short) .

Are you saying that or are you just looking for vindication of your summer position?

And are the numbers the same, but the quality is better.? I think Adam is saying we need another CB?

I thought my first post was quite clear in stating that our position this summer has since been vindicated.

I wasn't commenting on the requirement for an additional CB - personally id have kept Wimmer around, especially because Rose is recovering from injury and so Davies is locked in as a LB which leaves is short of left sided CB cover for Vertonghen but can understand the position that keeping so many players happy is a struggle.

Long term I'm happy with Carter Vickers coming back having had some valuable first team experience elsewhere

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I thought my first post was quite clear in stating that our position this summer has since been vindicated.

I wasn't commenting on the requirement for an additional CB - personally id have kept Wimmer around, especially because Rose is recovering from injury and so Davies is locked in as a LB which leaves is short of left sided CB cover for Vertonghen but can understand the position that keeping so many players happy is a struggle.

Long term I'm happy with Carter Vickers coming back having had some valuable first team experience elsewhere

I was trying to decipher what you meant by 'strengthening' more numbers or quality, as Adam definitely thought we were a body short. (and we ended up 2in 2 out)

I agree with you about Wimmer....especially knowing Rose was injured BUT he'd already indicated he wanted to play and his chances would have remained limited so off to Stoke he went.

BTW the vindication is on hold, F8ck alls gone wrong so far.

 

[DeleHarry]

this was all before the signing of Sanchez and Foyth - we were saying we needed additional players in defence, which is what we got... there were plenty of people saying that Alderweireld Vertonghen CCV was enough as we had Dier and Davies who can play there as well as their other positions.

Read your post back again because to me and others it appears you are not happy about the current number of centre backs.

 

[AdamB]

Adams been saying we are exposed now because of Tobies injury (ie post signings, we are still a bit short) .

Are you saying that or are you just looking for vindication of your summer position?

And are the numbers the same, but the quality is better.? I think Adam is saying we need another CB?

well, yes and no! What I said above was:

"Personally I thought signing someone in the summer in the say 22-24 year old range with top flight experience would have made more sense than signing Foyth (and because ED to me always looks better as a CM rather than CB) but perhaps he'll develop quickly, and anyway we seem to have made the decision to back him for that role now so we probably wont get another CB for anohter 18 months or so and only if he doesnt develop. He's looked composed in the cup games he's played"

...and made a similar comment on the previous page. Its good/right that we got in 2 CBs this summer, but personally I would have signed someone more senior than Foyth and someone closer to being a PL-ready player. Its left us with 5 senior players (Alder, Dier, JV, Vinny and Sanchez) to cover too few positions (CB and DM). Foyth now needs to go on the bench, maybe play in FA Cup early rounds. So I do think we're exposed but if Foyth steps up we'll be ok. Without him though, we'd have had Davies as CB cover, or playing CB if we'd wanted ED in midfield, which would have meant a half-fit Rose would have been playing two games per week. 1 suspension or additional injury would have been a real problem!

We'll have a huge number of games this season, plus most of our squad will have internationals and a lot will play in the world cup at the end of the season and then very quickly into next season, so sharing the burden wider with the 1 extra body would have been beneficial. I think there would have been sufficient games for them considering that workload.

 

[parklane1]

This always happens when we get an injury, people will claim we now need another player. But it's not really true - there's a few things. Versatility in the players that we have. And squad harmony. You can't have a player that will expect to start, never starting. Not to mention the idea that we won't be able to convince them to join. Sanchez joined us because he will play. Foyth joined us because he was happy to be patient.

But you know as well as i do there is always room for more players in some eyes .

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

well, yes and no! What I said above was:

"Personally I thought signing someone in the summer in the say 22-24 year old range with top flight experience would have made more sense than signing Foyth (and because ED to me always looks better as a CM rather than CB) but perhaps he'll develop quickly, and anyway we seem to have made the decision to back him for that role now so we probably wont get another CB for anohter 18 months or so and only if he doesnt develop. He's looked composed in the cup games he's played"

...and made a similar comment on the previous page. Its good/right that we got in 2 CBs this summer, but personally I would have signed someone more senior than Foyth and someone closer to being a PL-ready player. Its left us with 5 senior players (Alder, Dier, JV, Vinny and Sanchez) to cover too few positions (CB and DM). Foyth now needs to go on the bench, maybe play in FA Cup early rounds. So I do think we're exposed but if Foyth steps up we'll be ok. Without him though, we'd have had Davies as CB cover, or playing CB if we'd wanted ED in midfield, which would have meant a half-fit Rose would have been playing two games per week. 1 suspension or additional injury would have been a real problem!

We'll have a huge number of games this season, plus most of our squad will have internationals and a lot will play in the world cup at the end of the season and then very quickly into next season, so sharing the burden wider with the 1 extra body would have been beneficial. I think there would have been sufficient games for them considering that workload.

Believe me I can see what your saying.

But you can add Davies, Moose and Winks (with hindsight) to that group. And even Eriksen if paired with Vic or ED.

It's amazing how we have coped with Winks, Vic and Moose all being unavailable at some point, with ED doing a job on his own in a diamond. And unbelievably when ED goes CH Winks has stepped up. I know we are gonna have to employ game management and squad rotation at various points of the season but Toby, moose, Vic, winks,Rose, tripps, aurier, Dele and Harry have (or are) taken time out already this season.

The extra man, of the quality you suggest, would be in the Wimmer situation and he left thru lack of game time, so it a hard sell to a potential signing.

 

[P.D.]

Maybe it's time for Foyth to get some minutes in the league, he's looked capable so far and was highly rated previously.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Maybe it's time for Foyth to get some minutes in the league, he's looked capable so far and was highly rated previously.

Ok, that's a bit harsh, i do like what i've seen so far...but......?

 

[DubaiSpur]

Already missing him. Come back soon, Toby.

 

[DeleHarry]

Shows how valuable he is

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Already missing him. Come back soon, Toby.

Another year, another Toby injury and another little rut. 1 win in the past 4 league games.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Another year, another Toby injury and another little rut. 1 win in the past 4 league games.

I said last season that Verts was instantly brainless without him - I didn't mean that Verts became Anton Ferdinand, I meant that he lost the edge that turned him from a decent to good defender into a world-class one when alongside Toby.

It's happening again. Ditto with Dier. And while Sanchez performs like a beast with or without Toby, Lloris looks a lot less assured when he's out as well.

He knits everything together - it's scary and frustrating how dependent we are on him to turn our defense from somewhere in the top ten to the very best in the league.

When he leaves, we will struggle like this all season.

 

[braineclipse]

I said last season that Verts was instantly brainless without him - I didn't mean that Verts became Anton Ferdinand, I meant that he lost the edge that turned him from a decent to good defender into a world-class one when alongside Toby.

It's happening again. Ditto with Dier. And while Sanchez performs like a beast with or without Toby, Lloris looks a lot less assured when he's out as well.

He knits everything together - it's scary and frustrating how dependent we are on him to turn our defense from somewhere in the top ten to the very best in the league.

When he leaves, we will struggle like this all season.

Vertonghen has been excellent.

Got done one on one against Mahrez in the kind of situation Mahrez loves. Other than that what did he actually do wrong?

 

[billyiddo]

Vertonghen for me is a great individual defender but he isn't the type to lead a defence.

Nothing wrong with that mind but is the reason I value Alderweireld higher even if Vertonghen has eclipsed his performances over the past year or so

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

When he leaves, we will struggle like this all season.

He is nailed on to go in the summer isnt he?

shame good player and would prefer he stayed but that contract has been sat on the side for to long now.

 

[Denmark Spur]

https://twitter.com/x/status/936606471747379202

 

[SteveAWOL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/936281283713536001