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Toby Alderweireld

I really dont think he was a game changer for them. Just a decent player doing a job, like any competent RB could have done. Though I am aware I hold the unpopular opinion of not actually rating Walker that highly anyway.

It is worth pointing out, the Toby shat the bed stuff is completely unsubstantiated (that Im aware) and should be given the required scepticism.

I dont envisage players just wanting to leave, and Levy has stuck to his guns before - Im just aware of the perception that can stick with players getting moves they agitated for in consecutive years. The fact we were/are happy enough for them to go is almost beside the point.

I agree, any right back would have been an upgrade of Sagna, which probably factored into our thinking. May as well get 50M for a player who’s head has gone rather than see them walk the league anyway and keep us with a sulking player.

All players force moves and all clubs have to deal with it. Ronaldo just got out of Madrid. It doesn’t concern me, because there are other considerations we are making when we think of the Toby and Walker sales. We are doing the best long term thing for us based on a number of factors (not just thinking of the balance sheet as @DubaiSpur is saying) and not worrying about what other clubs or players may think. That’s a smart club recognising their place and thinking of all the moves to better themselves. Over the long term, it all makes sense, and is good strategy. Leverage your own strengths.
 
Like with Modric, it neednt end badly - and it served as a good example that player power isnt everything.

Id almost want to keep Alderweireld here just to prove that point to the squad and any teams looking to poach our players.

Sadly we are not wealthy or stupid enough to waste time attempting to score points over United.
We may all like to, but 6 points would be much better statement.
We either pay the Toby’s of this world or get rid, everything else is just posturing.
 
One of those considerations is giving the impression that tinkling Poch off gets you the move you want.

Not an impression we want to take hold.

All thigns being equal, Im cool with him going. Couldnt be more relaxed, and for many of the reasons you cite it is sensible business.

its just I am also aware of how an impression can become "fact". Just look at all the "we deliberately leave all our business late" talk.
 
Sadly we are not wealthy or stupid enough to waste time attempting to score points over United.
We may all like to, but 6 points would be much better statement.
We either pay the Toby’s of this world or get rid, everything else is just posturing.

Its not about scoring points over Utd, or even Alderweireld.

Its a line in the sand statement to the effect of - "WE decide when we let players go, so fudge off!"

Itself a powerful reputation to have, IMO.

As to Utd specifically, Ill let them have TOby, only if we can get Martial - that way nobody loses face. And then we take 6 points off them, with MArtial getting a hattrick in each game making Toby look like a donkey
 
One of those considerations is giving the impression that tinkling Poch off gets you the move you want.

Not an impression we want to take hold.

All thigns being equal, Im cool with him going. Couldnt be more relaxed, and for many of the reasons you cite it is sensible business.

its just I am also aware of how an impression can become "fact". Just look at all the "we deliberately leave all our business late" talk.

A very interesting "take" for sure. In fairness, I'd say there is plenty of truth to that, as once you cross him you have to work damn hard to get back. There again, crossing him takes some doing too, and is down to either repeated disrespect or a lack of honor and integrity in daily dealings from what I can see.
 
One of those considerations is giving the impression that tinkling Poch off gets you the move you want.

Not an impression we want to take hold.

All thigns being equal, Im cool with him going. Couldnt be more relaxed, and for many of the reasons you cite it is sensible business.

its just I am also aware of how an impression can become "fact". Just look at all the "we deliberately leave all our business late" talk.

Sadly tinkling the manager off does help get you out of the door.
This has taken hold!
We are a selling club when the player wants out, which to me is logical.
 
Its not about scoring points over Utd, or even Alderweireld.

Its a line in the sand statement to the effect of - "WE decide when we let players go, so fudge off!"

Itself a powerful reputation to have, IMO.

As to Utd specifically, Ill let them have TOby, only if we can get Martial - that way nobody loses face. And then we take 6 points off them, with MArtial getting a hattrick in each game making Toby look like a donkey

We either pay them more than they are being offered elsewhere or suck it up and move on!
It’s the way it is.
 
There’s an awful lot of ‘they could use a 4th CB’ in your post which I can’t see Toby being eager to sign up for, even if those clubs were to move for him. He’d be first 11 every week with United and would push to go there.

They could use a 4th CB - doesn't mean that Toby will be that 4th CB. He could be first-choice, too. All depends on how things go, and that's ignoring the fact that Bayern and PSG (two of the four) actually do need starting CBs.

As for everything else, I’m really not fussed about precedent. The Eriksen situation is all ifs and buts and the likelihood is he will get a good new contract with us with our new stadium wage budget. But if he or anyone else pushes for a move, and we then drop them because harmony and standards are a bigger strategic advantage for us than any one player, then yes that will be the narrative. Because harmony and standards are more important to us than any one player.

So, you agree - in the end, whichever player decides to agitate for a move will be dropped, and then the narrative will become 'that player is no longer one of our best, we're better without him, we're not like Arsenal, really guv'nor'.

Possibly Eriksen, next year. Possibly Alli, two years from now. And so on, and so forth. And one day ,we will look back, realize that we have become just like Arsenal, selling all our players to the clubs around us and rationalizing it as necessary (only without the trophies to show for it). And at least Arsenal cited financial necessity as a reason for folding like a pack of cards in front of their rivals - we're apparently considering using the 'harmony and standards' justification. It amounts to the same thing, in the end.

We have ambition but we also have our place in the food chain, so we just need to do the best thing for us bearing in mind all of the other moving parts. I don’t think keeping a sulking Toby around while United sign someone else, we get less money next summer and have just spent a year with an over priced CB on our bench is in any way beneficial for us.

'We have ambition' and 'we have our place in the food chain' cancel each other out. If we have ambition, we do not respect our 'place' in the food chain so generously afforded to us by those above us - if we have our comfortable place in the food chain, then we are implicitly accepting that those above us will stay above us forevermore.

I believe telling United to include Martial or f*ck off is the only acceptable outcome here. Anything else is us capitulating to our 'place in the food chain' - nothing else, no matter how it's spun.

Setting a side that the Toby issue is - if the rumours are to be believed - about respect and trust because Poch went to bat for him and got shown up, squad management is about having everyone in the squad comfortable in their role. With enough depth but with enough good tension that players know they have a genuine opportunity for first 11 football but know that they can’t let their standards slip or they’ll be on the bench. We have this tension right across the squad and it motivates all the players to keep improving and keep their focus. Trippier / Aurier, Rose / Davies, Dier, Wanyama, Lamela / Dele / Moura / Son.

We have players that are stand outs that will start every week regardless in Lloris, Jan, Eriksen and Kane. And we have obvious back ups like Foyth that are happy to improve. If Toby believes he is an obvious first 11 pick every week, and isn’t comfortable being a back up of fighting for his place, relentlessly trying to improve, then he will be a bad apple that will impact the entire squad. Particularly if he’s already come close to a move. Those standards, that relentless desire for improvement, the right level of tension, that’s all part of the roostertail that keeps us moving forward and keeps us consistent.

Eh? So, if Toby was this disruptive black sheep, pulling fire alarms, spitting in Poch's food and being generally disruptive as a 'bad apple', then it would have been in evidence all last season after the contract brouhaha. And yet, I don't think it was.

Modric was denied his apparent 'dream' move, and caused far more of an outcry about it than Toby has so far. The window shut, he buttoned down and became our best player again pretty much straight away. And, in the end, he got his move - abroad, to Madrid, and we weren't hurt by that.

I don't think there's much in this idea that our squad are all some precious babies that need to be protected from any hint of unhappiness or displeasure with an existing situation. They will keep competing regardless of what Toby does, because *they* want to play, not Toby - and Poch demands that if you want to play. Toby being grumpy won't change that.
 
But we are bullied because they are all exceedingly richer than we are!

This is the point, we dont need to be. Not always. And we should make sure its not a given that if Utd (or whoever) want our player they simply get them.

This is part and parcel of playing in the big leagues, we need to show we can stand shoulder to shoulder at times so as not to be taken advantage of.
 
But we are bullied because they are all exceedingly richer than we are!

So what? What is the point of even competing in the damn Premier League, then, if that is our excuse for everything that ever happens to us?

Sorry, mate, I'm just tinkled off. But at some point, this hand-wringing has to end, imo.
 
But They got what they wanted Real Madrid moves

Under our terms. This is the key. Not that they got their way, but that they didnt get to dictate to us how and when they left.

We said now, we then set the deals up for when they suited us, and had contingency in place to deal with it. We were in charge of that, and while the end result is "player moved" it is an entirely different outcome.
 
This is the point, we dont need to be. Not always. And we should make sure its not a given that if Utd (or whoever) want our player they simply get them.

This is part and parcel of playing in the big leagues, we need to show we can stand shoulder to shoulder at times so as not to be taken advantage of.

But sadly we can’t pay the wages. Everything else irrelevant.
As Leicester are finding out tonight! Maguire!
 
But sadly we can’t pay the wages. Everything else irrelevant.
As Leicester are finding out tonight! Maguire!

Contracts are not irrelevant. They are legally binding, and mean the club actually does have power in this situation - despite what Sky and the general consensus would have you believe.

All Im saying is that it is important to reinforce that at times. We should not be recognised as a club where you can turn up with some cash and walk away with whoever you like.
 
So what? What is the point of even competing in the damn Premier League, then, if that is our excuse for everything that ever happens to us?

Sorry, mate, I'm just tinkled off. But at some point, this hand-wringing has to end, imo.

You are quite entitled to be tinkled off.
But I stopped being tinkled off years ago. You can’t defy economics!
 
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