Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Harry_Perkins]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

No, but the games against the teams around you are the 6 pointers.

When he took over those teams were Everton, Man Utd, Southampton and Saudi Sportswashing Machine.... Sherwood beat the lot and Southampton twice! No wins against them before that. Arsenal at home was the killer blow for 4th though.

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

PL Points Won since Sherwood was appointed:

Liverpool 44
Chelsea 42
Emirates Marketing Project 39
Tottenham Hotspur 39
Everton 38
Arsenal 35
Manchester United 32

This from 7th place having not beaten anyone in the (then) top 9 in the first 16 games.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

This from 7th place having not beaten anyone in the (then) top 9 in the first 16 games.

So you want him kept on next season then?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yeah yeah Tim was clueless today against a team that beat Arsenal,Chelsea & Man Utd at the Brit!

Actually he was clueless against the team who lost at home to Norwich.

City have also lost away to Cardiff, Villa and Sunderland. So shall we just agree that results in matches nothing to do with ours are irrelevant as a yardstick of how departed Timmeh was today?

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So you want him kept on next season then?

Not necessarily. I think he's done enough to be a candidate, that is all. 4th over his games played versus others over the same period. 39 points in 20 games = 1.95 points per game = 70 points over 36 games. Would put us level on points with 4th, as it stands. So if we're looking for someone to blame for 5th/6th place... I think Sherwood can begin to wash his hands of it!

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Not necessarily. I think he's done enough to be a candidate, that is all. 4th over his games played versus others over the same period. 39 points in 20 games = 1.95 points per game = 70 points over 36 games. Would put us level on points with 4th, as it stands. So if we're looking for someone to blame for 5th/6th place... I think Sherwood can begin to wash his hands of it!

I think things will not get better at this point with Sherwood at the helm; this is as good as it will get imo

 

[Yossarian]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Actually he was clueless against the team who lost at home to Norwich.

City have also lost away to Cardiff, Villa and Sunderland. So shall we just agree that results in matches nothing to do with ours are irrelevant as a yardstick of how departed Timmeh was today?

To Norwich yes. By a goal. Also lost to Liverpool, champions in all likelihood. Anyone else? That's all, until today.

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Actually he was clueless against the team who lost at home to Norwich

**Digs the programme out** LOL. This was in September, folks. They then had 1 defeat in the next 14 home games, to Liverpool.... before today... yeah, what a depart Timmeh is!

 

[Superhudd]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Ha! That's a whole new level above professional football.
Competitive angry dads...

nope.. the mums :lol:

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think things will not get better at this point with Sherwood at the helm; this is as good as it will get imo

Given the utter hysteria when he was first appointed, the predictions of sliding further down the table etc etc.. forgive me for once again waiting and seeing what happens (in the unlikely event of him staying, that is). Either way, he can walk away, at this point, with some considerable credit. He's done better than AVB last year without Bale and there was no question of sacking AVB at the end of last year... so seems wrong to just dismiss him outright without serious consideration for the role.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Given the utter hysteria when he was first appointed, the predictions of sliding further down the table etc etc.. forgive me for once again waiting and seeing what happens (in the unlikely event of him staying, that is). Either way, he can walk away, at this point, with some considerable credit. He's done better than AVB last year without Bale and there was no question of sacking AVB at the end of last year... so seems wrong to just dismiss him outright without serious considerable for the role.

One or two fair points in there, but AVB's conduct as a professional manager cannot be compared to TS and his constant 'not-me-guv' when things go wrong/'aren't I great' when things go well. I'm not even going to bring up the constant stream of contradictory BS that spills out of his mouth, much of the time talking like an outsider.

Also, the divisions he constantly seems to WANT to create in the squad we have taken time to assemble and FORGE alone should be a big red flag.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

was you advocating him getting the sack at the end of last season then?

i don't recall many people wanting him gone at the end of the season so im not sure it was ever used as an excuse not to sack him - more that it was simply a way of saying for his first season in charge we did quite well and pushed for the target of 4th/was unlucky to miss out.

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

One or two fair points in there, but AVB's conduct as a professional manager cannot be compared to TS and his constant 'not-me-guv' when things go wrong/'aren't I great' when things go well

Bit much. I don't think Sherwood has yet got the physio to go to go and tell a player to train with the youth team! What sort of management is that? The whole point was that AVB wasn't a 'manager' in any serious sense of the word. He was a coach, an assistant, the opposition DVD man... whatever, but no 'manager'. Sherwood at least has a management style to discuss even if I agree there is evidence that it is somewhat outdated but then it hasn't hurt many, many others who have/do take a similar approach.

 

[DTA]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

Probably slightly better as they wouldn't be getting ****ged off all the time.

Really? then football must be a really simple game and avb must of been worse than having no coach because his results were worse.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Bit much. I don't think Sherwood has yet got the physio to go to go and tell a player to train with the youth team! What sort of management is that? The whole point was that AVB wasn't a 'manager' in any serious sense of the word. He was a coach, an assistant, the opposition DVD man... whatever, but no 'manager'. Sherwood at least has a management style to discuss even if I agree there is evidence that it is somewhat outdated but then it hasn't hurt many, many others who have/do take a similar approach.

We can debate the exact titles they had all day. You simply cannot compare the professionalism shown and how they represented their roles at the club overall. For al his faults AVB was at least respectable in how he conducted himself.
But enough about AVB...:lol:

Who are these others who take similar approaches to Sherwood that you mention?

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

You really want to compare last season when AVB had Gareth Bale to this season when Sherwood didn't?

Really?

Not to mention comparing last season's Liverpool, City and Chelsea with this year. Even Arsenal are improved, if only marginally so.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

I posted these questions in the main TS thread, but only one poster replied.
So I thought I'd bring them here.

=========

Those who want to give TS next season as well, can I ask you for your views on the following:

- who do you think he will target this summer for our key/vacant positions: LB, CB, CF, LW? I'm basing this on him playing 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 and/or Ade perhaps not being around.

- players with potential from overseas, especially those we may see in the summer at the World Cup, who we may be interested in targeting for our current positions to challenge for CL; do you think any of them would be attracted to play for TS?

- Can we afford to get rid of most of last summer's Bale-sponsored buys? We know he only rates Eriksen. We may have already lost Lloris and Vertonghen..

- Who do you think TS will replace the above with?

- What do you see in our current play, set-up etc that makes you think our play/results will get better than their current level? What makes you think this is NOT 'as good as it gets' and that next season he will be found out and be in a worse position than we currently are, i.e. knocking around consistently around 10th?

- Can we afford more squad divisions, which he seems to be fostering (e.g. love for Soldado vs Kane)?

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We can debate the exact titles they had all day. You simply cannot compare the professionalism shown and how they represented their roles at the club overall. For al his faults AVB was at least respectable in how he conducted himself

When I say he wasn't a manager I'm talking literally, not about titles. It is a skill like any other and there is precious little evidence he has/had much of it. Possibly very good in other departments but it all counts for nought when you don't bring the players along with you. You can mask it for a while but it always gets you in the end. Whereas those who are simply good man managers can achieve a whole lot more without being brilliant at anything else. Redknapp was the classic example. Meant to be some sort of dinosaur 'run around a bit' macaron but never stopped a Champions League Quarter Final and two 4th places.

Who are these others who take similar approaches to Sherwood that you mention?

In what way? Public monstering of large elements of the squad? Is there a manager who hasn't done that? Mourinho did it just a couple of weeks back. Said some of his players were weak minded. More or so less called out individual players after the PSG defeat by focusing on the 'ridiculous' and 'joke' defending. He has done nothing that outrageous and if elements are squad are really bothered by such things then they're not going to do anything at the top level anyway.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

When I say he wasn't a manager I'm talking literally, not about titles. It is a skill like any other and there is precious little evidence he has/had much of it. Possibly very good in other departments but it all counts for nought when you don't bring the players along with you. You can mask it for a while but it always gets you in the end. Whereas those who are simply good man managers can achieve a whole lot more without being brilliant at anything else. Redknapp was the classic example. Meant to be some sort of dinosaur 'run around a bit' macaron but never stopped a Champions League Quarter Final and two 4th places.

I'm not going to get into this bit. Let's just say I disagree with the bolded bit wrt AVB.

In what way? Public monstering of large elements of the squad? Is there a manager who hasn't done that? Mourinho did it just a couple of weeks back. Said some of his players were weak minded. More or so less called out individual players after the PSG defeat by focusing on the 'ridiculous' and 'joke' defending. He has done nothing that outrageous and if elements are squad are really bothered by such things then they're not going to do anything at the top level anyway.

I mean the taking the credit when we get a good result, blaming the players/everyone else (including the clubs policy on transfers, youth development etc) when we get a bad result. I'm not going to mention the outright cowardice and hypocrisy shown at Anfield...

So which other managers have taken this approach and been successful long-term?
Btw, I think Mourinho and his antics are being found out, in case you are going to use him (not that the skillsets are in any way comparable)

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm not going to get into this bit. Let's just say I disagree with the bolded bit wrt AVB.



I mean the taking the credit when we get a good result, blaming the players/everyone else (including the clubs policy on transfers, youth development etc) when we get a bad result. I'm not going to mention the outright cowardice and hypocrisy shown at Anfield...

So which other managers have taken this approach and been successful long-term?
Btw, I think Mourinho and his antics are being found out, in case you are going to use him (not that the skillsets are in any way comparable)

I can remember very few managers not deflecting defeats in one way or another. How many managers get sacked and then hold their hold their hands up and say 'I deserved it'? There are always reasons why. AVB was no different on that front either. And he was also more than happy to take credit when it went well. There is really nothing unique here.