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Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?


  • Total voters
    125
  • Poll closed .
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Ditto; TS has sucked all the energy from a lot of us I feel; even shivermetimbers doesn't bother defending him insanely like he used to.

I will simply ask you this: if you were given the choice again of sacking AVB and only if he was to be replaced by TS would you still have gone for it?

Yes absolutely I really could only see it going one way with AVB when our luck went South.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Mate I was at the Fulham game just after the City one I can assure you we were not turning it around. Two long shots two goals that was it. Without Ade we would be no where, stop kidding your self.

Funny...you've said many times that it was the same last season with Bale.:lol:

Anyway, what about the Sunderland game? Were we crap then as well? What about the attacking that we saw vs Anzhi? Yes, it was a dead-rubber game but why bother attacking so much in a dead-rubber game? Perhaps something was developing just not in time for a rampant Liverpool and Suarez?
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Ditto; TS has sucked all the energy from a lot of us I feel; even shivermetimbers doesn't bother defending him insanely like he used to.

I will simply ask you this: if you were given the choice again of sacking AVB and only if he was to be replaced by TS would you still have gone for it?

It's one of those questions a bit like, would you rather have your arm or leg cut off.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Spurs scored 81 goals in 54 Premier League matches under AVB (average: 1.5 goals per game).

And 33 goals in 18 Premier League matches under Sherwood so far (average: 1.83 goals per game).

Over an entire season of 38 matches, that makes 57 goals under AVB and 70 goals under Sherwood.

And goals conceded per game?
How about games played against top 6 teams? I'd like to see how Sherwood compares this season and AVB over his tenure
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

And goals conceded per game?
How about games played against top 6 teams? I'd like to see how Sherwood compares this season and AVB over his tenure

You can only compare this season as they've had the same set of players. How about comparing games vs the top 10 this season.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We gave up on doing anything this season when we hired Sherwood, that doesn't mean Villas Boas was the man for the job, but Sherwood was a complete shot in the dark based on nothing.

Anyway, 4 games to go then hopefully a new dawn (another one ;))
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You can only compare this season as they've had the same set of players. How about comparing games vs the top 10 this season.

Or bottom 7...this could get tedious eh:lol:

The only good thing to come out of hiring Sherwood is that we have a decent reason to fire him at the end and thus rid the snake from the club.
We might all thank AVB for that at least.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Spurs fans still getting moist at the memory of a coach who started 2 DM's at home to Norwich with a single isolated poacher up front; but going mental when another coach plays away with no DM's, 2 strikers, has 20 attempts on goal, missing at least 4 sitters and a penalty while at the same time managing 68% possession and 3 goals from open play.

You'd think this was a Palace or Stoke forum ffs.

You can play well and lose, play badly and win, and many combinations in between. The black/white analsyis of today's game - "Duh, we conceded 3 against relegation fodder therefore we're sh1t" - is pretty lame. There's important things to look at today and unimportant things.

Important

1. What was the one problem everyone agreed on at the start of the season? No matter your opinions on Harry or AVB or Levy or Sherwood or 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1, we all agreed on it.

Answer: That LB was a big problem. That was how we started the season, and that, fittingly, is what has ended our season today. We've coughed up the difference between CL and no CL because of that one position IMO, and everyone saw it coming. We walked right into it.

I don't need exotic theories about the competence or otherwise of coaches to explain where we fell short this season when Levy, Baldini, AVB, Sherwood and every poster on this board knew the problem 8 months ago. And here we are tearing the coach to pieces and asking why the sky is falling in. Not having a Plan B when Coantrao fell through is probably the crux of it.

2. West Brom had 6 shots all day, 5 on target, and they scored 3. Some people are saying they flew at us in attack...eh, the stats say they didn't. Or, if they did, we snuffed them out pretty handily. They just lucked onto an 83% strike accuracy rate today probably for the first time this century. Another freakish set of stats in this freakish season of stuff like this happening.

3. I saw someone say earlier: "Our shape was awful, we left huge spaces all over the pitch".

Eh, so what? Who cares? Apart from their 3 goals, they had 3 shots all game! So why the hell would we care about leaving empty spaces against a shower of sh1te that can't use space? People want us wasting players filling holes where there's no danger?

The correct tactical game was to attack SCBC, Sunderland and West Brom and assume we have trace defensive competence to win out. Mssrs. Rose, Kaboul and Chiriches meant we missed out on 3/3 today.

4. It is abundantly clear that the players have been instructed to play 1-touch pass and move. You could see that against SCBC and Sunderland and you could see it throughout the match today. In the end, this tactic produced 3 goals from open play against a team parking the bus. Of our 20 shots in total, 10 of those were inside the area (in other words, not speculative Hail Mary shots, but decent chances): http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...9/team-stats/6/0_SHOT_055#tabs-wrapper-anchor.

Our second half was really excellent, with fast passing, movement, mixing up short balls and long balls, channel balls, crosses, wingers coming inside and pretty triangles all around the D. On my commentary Trevor Francis kept having to change his mind about where Chdali, Eriksen, Kane and Lennon were playing because they were so fluid. There are real signs of progress and coherence in our attacking play here.

5. Starting so badly. This is huge, huge, huge. I don't understand the problem, but it looks like some kind of mental preparation issue. So weird and needs sorting. Games against Liverpool and West Brom totally distorted and bent out of shape by this same mistake. Again, we'd be CL if games started in the 15th minute. Huge.


Unimportant Stuff

1. What screwed it up today?

Two nothing, nonsense crosses from the right that 99/100 come to nothing. Against us though, they score 2 goals from them inside 2 minutes because we are cursed and our LB is a liability. But most of the time those crosses don't lead to goals. Wasn't someone on here just last week mocking the crossing game because it's so ineffective? Well, exactly. They lucked out big time.

Most of the time, on the first goal, our LB clears, or their winger botches the cross, or Hugo catches/clears the ball, or the rebound goes to a defender who clears it, or it goes to the striker who misses or miscontrols or has his shot blocked/saved. All those things went wrong there (cross ref with Liverpool's first, which was the exact same.) Ditto the second goal: all the same things, except at the end you can add Brunt hitting his best goal in years.

Statistically, the goals today should not have happened. They are meaningless, assuming you have a LB who can defend (and we all agree we don't have that) and 2 CB's who can head the ball clear (again, a shaky proposition with Vlad and Kaboul today, but generally true of Top 5 defenders).

Unless your specific concern about your team is "ZOMG don't under any circumstances let their winger have the ball in our LB position" and see that as the root of all evil, it's really silly to despair just because we let in two goals from that position.

....

In my opinion van Gaal is the only coach who should block Sherwood getting a shot next season. LvG is uniquely special and too good to turn down. But everyone else is a punt, and no better or worse a punt than Sherwood. If we appoint someone like Prandelli or Pochittino ahead of him that would be a mistake.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Spurs fans still getting moist at the memory of a coach who started 2 DM's at home to Norwich with a single isolated poacher up front; but going mental when another coach plays away with no DM's, 2 strikers, has 20 attempts on goal, missing at least 4 sitters and a penalty while at the same time managing 68% possession and 3 goals from open play.

You'd think this was a Palace or Stoke forum ffs.

You can play well and lose, play badly and win, and many combinations in between. The black/white analsyis of today's game - "Duh, we conceded 3 against relegation fodder therefore we're sh1t" - is pretty lame. There's important things to look at today and unimportant things.

Important

1. What was the one problem everyone agreed on at the start of the season? No matter your opinions on Harry or AVB or Levy or Sherwood or 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1, we all agreed on it.

Answer: That LB was a big problem. That was how we started the season, and that, fittingly, is what has ended our season today. We've coughed up the difference between CL and no CL because of that one position IMO, and everyone saw it coming. We walked right into it.

I don't need exotic theories about the competence or otherwise of coaches to explain where we fell short this season when Levy, Baldini, AVB, Sherwood and every poster on this board knew the problem 8 months ago. And here we are tearing the coach to pieces and asking why the sky is falling in. Not having a Plan B when Coantrao fell through is probably the crux of it.

2. West Brom had 6 shots all day, 5 on target, and they scored 3. Some people are saying they flew at us in attack...eh, the stats say they didn't. Or, if they did, we snuffed them out pretty handily. They just lucked onto an 83% strike accuracy rate today probably for the first time this century. Another freakish set of stats in this freakish season of stuff like this happening.

3. I saw someone say earlier: "Our shape was awful, we left huge spaces all over the pitch".

Eh, so what? Who cares? Apart from their 3 goals, they had 3 shots all game! So why the hell would we care about leaving empty spaces against a shower of sh1te that can't use space? People want us wasting players filling holes where there's no danger?

The correct tactical game was to attack SCBC, Sunderland and West Brom and assume we have trace defensive competence to win out. Mssrs. Rose, Kaboul and Chiriches meant we missed out on 3/3 today.

4. It is abundantly clear that the players have been instructed to play 1-touch pass and move. You could see that against SCBC and Sunderland and you could see it throughout the match today. In the end, this tactic produced 3 goals from open play against a team parking the bus. Of our 20 shots in total, 10 of those were inside the area (in other words, not speculative Hail Mary shots, but decent chances): http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...9/team-stats/6/0_SHOT_055#tabs-wrapper-anchor.

Our second half was really excellent, with fast passing, movement, mixing up short balls and long balls, channel balls, crosses, wingers coming inside and pretty triangles all around the D. On my commentary Trevor Francis kept having to change his mind about where Chdali, Eriksen, Kane and Lennon were playing because they were so fluid. There are real signs of progress and coherence in our attacking play here.

5. Starting so badly. This is huge, huge, huge. I don't understand the problem, but it looks like some kind of mental preparation issue. So weird and needs sorting. Games against Liverpool and West Brom totally distorted and bent out of shape by this same mistake. Again, we'd be CL if games started in the 15th minute. Huge.


Unimportant Stuff

1. What screwed it up today?

Two nothing, nonsense crosses from the right that 99/100 come to nothing. Against us though, they score 2 goals from them inside 2 minutes because we are cursed and our LB is a liability. But most of the time those crosses don't lead to goals. Wasn't someone on here just last week mocking the crossing game because it's so ineffective? Well, exactly. They lucked out big time.

Most of the time, on the first goal, our LB clears, or their winger botches the cross, or Hugo catches/clears the ball, or the rebound goes to a defender who clears it, or it goes to the striker who misses or miscontrols or has his shot blocked/saved. All those things went wrong there (cross ref with Liverpool's first, which was the exact same.) Ditto the second goal: all the same things, except at the end you can add Brunt hitting his best goal in years.

Statistically, the goals today should not have happened. They are meaningless, assuming you have a LB who can defend (and we all agree we don't have that) and 2 CB's who can head the ball clear (again, a shaky proposition with Vlad and Kaboul today, but generally true of Top 5 defenders).

Unless your specific concern about your team is "ZOMG don't under any circumstances let their winger have the ball in our LB position" and see that as the root of all evil, it's really silly to despair just because we let in two goals from that position.

....

In my opinion van Gaal is the only coach who should block Sherwood getting a shot next season. LvG is uniquely special and too good to turn down. But everyone else is a punt, and no better or worse a punt than Sherwood. If we appoint someone like Prandelli or Pochittino ahead of him that would be a mistake.

Seems to me that in your zeal to defend your boy Tim, it is you getting moist over what essentially was a last-gasp draw against relegation fodder. Yes a team that could go down, not a title chaser/top 4 team. And it was another draw against the same team that Tim couldn't beat at home either. That suggests a certain pattern, or a certain set of 'limitations' shall we say.

You seem to be squeezing every last stat (perhaps taking on the zealous pro-AVBers at their game in your mind?) to try and make out TS is a long-term bet when the constant calamitous starts suggest otherwise. The constant calamitous starts suggests that the manager has not got a clue as to how he wants his teams to start and try and control games.

The fact that you say everyone else apart from LVG would be 'no better or worse a punt than Sherwood' says you've had the life sucked out of you and have lowered your standards. #Grim
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

we made a poor team look clinical, the made us look like a relegation team.
their team of nobodies had more value than our team of somebodies
if we're going to include luck in the analysis, their OG just about kept us in the game
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Spurs fans still getting moist at the memory of a coach who started 2 DM's at home to Norwich with a single isolated poacher up front; but going mental when another coach plays away with no DM's, 2 strikers, has 20 attempts on goal, missing at least 4 sitters and a penalty while at the same time managing 68% possession and 3 goals from open play.

You'd think this was a Palace or Stoke forum ffs.

You can play well and lose, play badly and win, and many combinations in between. The black/white analsyis of today's game - "Duh, we conceded 3 against relegation fodder therefore we're sh1t" - is pretty lame. There's important things to look at today and unimportant things.

Important

1. What was the one problem everyone agreed on at the start of the season? No matter your opinions on Harry or AVB or Levy or Sherwood or 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1, we all agreed on it.

Answer: That LB was a big problem. That was how we started the season, and that, fittingly, is what has ended our season today. We've coughed up the difference between CL and no CL because of that one position IMO, and everyone saw it coming. We walked right into it.

I don't need exotic theories about the competence or otherwise of coaches to explain where we fell short this season when Levy, Baldini, AVB, Sherwood and every poster on this board knew the problem 8 months ago. And here we are tearing the coach to pieces and asking why the sky is falling in. Not having a Plan B when Coantrao fell through is probably the crux of it.

2. West Brom had 6 shots all day, 5 on target, and they scored 3. Some people are saying they flew at us in attack...eh, the stats say they didn't. Or, if they did, we snuffed them out pretty handily. They just lucked onto an 83% strike accuracy rate today probably for the first time this century. Another freakish set of stats in this freakish season of stuff like this happening.

3. I saw someone say earlier: "Our shape was awful, we left huge spaces all over the pitch".

Eh, so what? Who cares? Apart from their 3 goals, they had 3 shots all game! So why the hell would we care about leaving empty spaces against a shower of sh1te that can't use space? People want us wasting players filling holes where there's no danger?

The correct tactical game was to attack SCBC, Sunderland and West Brom and assume we have trace defensive competence to win out. Mssrs. Rose, Kaboul and Chiriches meant we missed out on 3/3 today.

4. It is abundantly clear that the players have been instructed to play 1-touch pass and move. You could see that against SCBC and Sunderland and you could see it throughout the match today. In the end, this tactic produced 3 goals from open play against a team parking the bus. Of our 20 shots in total, 10 of those were inside the area (in other words, not speculative Hail Mary shots, but decent chances): http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...9/team-stats/6/0_SHOT_055#tabs-wrapper-anchor.

Our second half was really excellent, with fast passing, movement, mixing up short balls and long balls, channel balls, crosses, wingers coming inside and pretty triangles all around the D. On my commentary Trevor Francis kept having to change his mind about where Chdali, Eriksen, Kane and Lennon were playing because they were so fluid. There are real signs of progress and coherence in our attacking play here.

5. Starting so badly. This is huge, huge, huge. I don't understand the problem, but it looks like some kind of mental preparation issue. So weird and needs sorting. Games against Liverpool and West Brom totally distorted and bent out of shape by this same mistake. Again, we'd be CL if games started in the 15th minute. Huge.


Unimportant Stuff

1. What screwed it up today?

Two nothing, nonsense crosses from the right that 99/100 come to nothing. Against us though, they score 2 goals from them inside 2 minutes because we are cursed and our LB is a liability. But most of the time those crosses don't lead to goals. Wasn't someone on here just last week mocking the crossing game because it's so ineffective? Well, exactly. They lucked out big time.

Most of the time, on the first goal, our LB clears, or their winger botches the cross, or Hugo catches/clears the ball, or the rebound goes to a defender who clears it, or it goes to the striker who misses or miscontrols or has his shot blocked/saved. All those things went wrong there (cross ref with Liverpool's first, which was the exact same.) Ditto the second goal: all the same things, except at the end you can add Brunt hitting his best goal in years.

Statistically, the goals today should not have happened. They are meaningless, assuming you have a LB who can defend (and we all agree we don't have that) and 2 CB's who can head the ball clear (again, a shaky proposition with Vlad and Kaboul today, but generally true of Top 5 defenders).

Unless your specific concern about your team is "ZOMG don't under any circumstances let their winger have the ball in our LB position" and see that as the root of all evil, it's really silly to despair just because we let in two goals from that position.

....

In my opinion van Gaal is the only coach who should block Sherwood getting a shot next season. LvG is uniquely special and too good to turn down. But everyone else is a punt, and no better or worse a punt than Sherwood. If we appoint someone like Prandelli or Pochittino ahead of him that would be a mistake.


Chancer, I think you got it wrong today, today's game was very simple

- When a bottom 4 team attacked us, we were a total shambles
- When same team decided to defend their lead in second half, we looked a half decent side.

It negates a lot of your points

- I don't think AVB is relevant to the conversation, but basically he (via his two DMs) generally could get his side to defend, but struggled to score
- TS can get his team to score, but can't defend for ****, even against teams that are dire.

It's not individual errors it's a system that overcommits, has both FBs high up the pitch, has players isolated against opposition attackers.

Go watch the game again, you can't tell me there is anyone in West Brom's defense we would want in our team, yet when they attacked us, several times the defender was isolated, when we attacked them, they always had cover.

It's just poor coaching, talking about what AVB did/didn't do, doesn't change it, slow starts, poor defensive tactics, panic when not holding the ball, struggling with basic **** like diagonal balls, months in, same story every game.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

anyway its amazing that all the fansites, blogsites and rags have now decided that Sherwood is on his last legs, that he's a dead man walking and time is up etc.

its even taken over the baldini gone rumour.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Spurs fans still getting moist at the memory of a coach who started 2 DM's at home to Norwich with a single isolated poacher up front;

Out of interest, which 2 DMs?

In my (admittedly unreliable) memory we only have 2 senior ones at the club and we always had one or the other injured.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

personally, i like the 2 dm's and a poacher up front, we should start every game like that then open up accordingly as the game dictates

we might get to 10 mins without being a goal (or 2) down then
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Chancer, I think you got it wrong today, today's game was very simple

- When a bottom 4 team attacked us, we were a total shambles
- When same team decided to defend their lead in second half, we looked a half decent side.

It negates a lot of your points

- I don't think AVB is relevant to the conversation, but basically he (via his two DMs) generally could get his side to defend, but struggled to score
- TS can get his team to score, but can't defend for ****, even against teams that are dire.

It's not individual errors it's a system that overcommits, has both FBs high up the pitch, has players isolated against opposition attackers.

Go watch the game again, you can't tell me there is anyone in West Brom's defense we would want in our team, yet when they attacked us, several times the defender was isolated, when we attacked them, they always had cover.

It's just poor coaching, talking about what AVB did/didn't do, doesn't change it, slow starts, poor defensive tactics, panic when not holding the ball, struggling with basic **** like diagonal balls, months in, same story every game.


I agree with that but their goals didn't come that way. 2 came from crosses from the left and the other a mistake from Kaboul.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that is an interpretation of what TS seems to think.

The fact he wants his players to play with passion and commitment does not imply that he thinks passion and commitment is all that is needed, any more than a statement asserting that midfielders must do more than simply destroy implies that he does not want his midfielders defending. I mean, if Sandro developed Tom Carroll's passing ability, you'd take that, wouldn't you?.

I think Mourinho is of the same mind as TS. Look at Mata: good player but does not work hard enough. Lukaku: good player, but does not work hard enough.

Talking of Mourinho, his bold tactical decisions this week, so far as I could see, involved the standard "time is running out and we are losing so throw another forward on and lump it into the box" tactic. He went all Allardyce on us.

His other masterplan was to remind the forwards that the opponents now need to score, so perhaps a bit of defending is in order.

OK, I exaggerate for comic effect, and I hope that this reply has not come across as overly combative or at all sarcastic. If it has, I'll blame the press ...

There's actually a good article on the BBC about Chelsea's tactics for a number of scenarios against PSG so its not as basic as you think. Cant find it on my phone but worth a read.

Plus Mourinho is a great people person mostly, pretty much all his players love playing for him and he develops a great mentality which makes them so difficult to beat. Compare that to Timmy.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Chancer, I think you got it wrong today, today's game was very simple

- When a bottom 4 team attacked us, we were a total shambles
- When same team decided to defend their lead in second half, we looked a half decent side.

It negates a lot of your points

- I don't think AVB is relevant to the conversation, but basically he (via his two DMs) generally could get his side to defend, but struggled to score
- TS can get his team to score, but can't defend for ****, even against teams that are dire.

It's not individual errors it's a system that overcommits, has both FBs high up the pitch, has players isolated against opposition attackers.

Go watch the game again, you can't tell me there is anyone in West Brom's defense we would want in our team, yet when they attacked us, several times the defender was isolated, when we attacked them, they always had cover.

It's just poor coaching, talking about what AVB did/didn't do, doesn't change it, slow starts, poor defensive tactics, panic when not holding the ball, struggling with basic **** like diagonal balls, months in, same story every game.

I think he is because under pressure his teams collapsed defensively too. I think the problem is that Tim is trying to copy the high line that AVB used but neither seem to be able to get the pressing right.
 
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