Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Baleforce]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

er...

is there anyone who doesn't do that when they start a new job? you are solving their problem remember, they came to get you because they need you

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

BOL you had absolutely no problem with Levy or the board at the beginning of the season, you had absolutely no problem with our signings and claimed they were good enough for a title challenge. Now AVB has failed you are now throwing all the blame on the 'evil' board and now you claim AVB wanted less signings. Why didn't you once claim this whilst on our good run earlier in the season?

I think you're desperate tbh. You read a AVB's autobiography and bought into his philosophy but you became confused when the reality of it wasn't as attractive as you envisioned. You start asking yourself ' wow this is so so bad there must be a reason for this' then you claim he's making us defensively solid and he's starting from the backline up. We then start conceding left, right and centre and you're thinking 'jesus wtf is this but youre sooooo brainwashed by the book you read you start looking for others to blame. You become desperate and start blaming things you previously praised, you panic, you don't think rationally.

Your post yesterday was laughable and verging on bizarre.

I don't think you can tell when I'm joking. I even put smilies in my posts when I address you to try and diffuse the intensity I seem to create by mentioning AVB with you around. The post you were referring to wasn't serious.

I have repeatedly said I was wrong at the start of the season. Of course I didn't mention anything when results were going well. I'm a fan and I'm enjoying the ride. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes and if things are going well I have no reason to assume anything other than everyone is pulling in the same direction.

But is it any wonder I doubt the board after the season we've had? I used to be a huge Levy fan, but my patience has now snapped with him. I'm shocked that so many people are still well on board with him despite failure after failure of managerial appointment.

I'm not desperate, I simply care less than I did. I thought the club were laying down long term foundations for the future but it became apparent they are just as trigger happy as always. I'm not desperate to defend AVB because I'm repeatedly praised Sherwood too, and I can acknowledge the good that has come from Levy. But my patience has gone with Levy. I no longer view him as the man with the plan, who is 5 moves ahead of everyone else like I used to. I used to be one of his biggest fans. I used to think it was a joke any other club could claim they had a better chairman than us. I thought he was so good...nah.

I said a few pages back, I don't view football as needing to find one manager who is this tactical GHod that's going to sort out all our problems. I'm not on Sherwood's back when we lose about his subs or about his tactics. I'm fine with him as a manager. And I was fine with AVB, despite the fact that they are different. I don't view the game as this man or that man making 'mistakes' because the game is just about choices, having to be made with 100s of external factors influencing those choices, some can be controlled and some can't. And there are no guarentees. You can set out to play defensively and lose 4-0, or you can set out to play defensively and win 4-0. The percentage chances of it happening are different but all sorts happens. I don't really buy into this guy is great or this guy is bad.

I defended AVB a lot because I had happened to read into him a lot. I've been just as behind Sherwood from a managerial perspective in terms of not going after him after every decision he makes when we lose, but I simply haven't been able to do it in as much detail because there's not much detail around on Sherwood's managerial philosophy. I'm not desperate, I really don't care, I've lost a lot of faith in the club this season. I simply wanted us to finally, finally, finally, back someone and have faith in someone and give them the time to build something. Not hoist ridiculous expectations on their shoulders and lose faith at the first sign of trouble. Of course I thought we could get top 4 at the start of the season, I was excited about the new signings and I am a fan.

But that's what gets me. Levy is not a fan. For me to respect him as a Chairman I have to think he is smarter than me. But actually he bought into the fact that he thought we could be title challengers with that investment too. And that's when I realised he isn't on some divine level of footballing knowledge and knows how everything is going to go down. He really has no more of an idea than me. And that's bad. I want my chairman to know far more than me, and I just don't believe Levy does (obviously in terms of finances he does, in terms of how to guide this club to the level he wants it to, I don't think he has any more clue than I do). And that's bad. This season has been an absolute disaster. It's been poor decision after poor decision and shown us up to be a club run by people that have no clue what they are doing. To me it's not about whether AVB is good or Sherwood is good. They are both good enough. They will both make decisions that will sometimes work and sometimes won't. But I really wanted us to establish something long term, and at the very least I didn't want us to have to write off a whole ****ing season because we can't have show some balls and back someone through a tough period. By Bale's value skyrocketing, we were given a real opportunity this year, and we blew it. Any other season being in the mix for 5th is about par. But we have been utter dog****, very rarely played well, the team has no style or identity and our season is over in March. After having our own little lottery win with the Bale money, it ain't good enough.

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

er...

is there anyone who doesn't do that when they start a new job? you are solving their problem remember, they came to get you because they need you

Well I think any good working relationship is about give and take. Neither party gets it all their own way, but generally the employer calls the shots for the most part.

I just think its incredible that some want to lay the blame for the breakdown in 'understanding' or the relationship at Levy's door.

Like anyone, AVB knew, or should have known what he was getting in for.

He should have known:

*Spurs operate a tight ship, with a rigid wage structure
*Spurs generally operate with a technical director and technical committee, which discusses and agrees long-term club strategy, including transfers
*The club mostly targets young players with potential, on lowish wages, with the aim of developing them, selling on and reinvesting
*In addition, the club had recently invested a tonne of money in a state of the art academy and had just destroyed the U21 league and NextGen series, so would probably be wanting their impressive youth set up to be utilised
*Levy is a tough negotiator and will only do a deal if it ticks all the 'Levy boxes'

What, did Andre think it was ok taking on the job, knowing and accepting all this, presumably having this reiterated at interview and in agreements, then start to demand Hulk, Villa, Willian, Moutinho once he was in the hot seat?

He'd have to be a pretty humongous penis to do this, but his supporters are claiming that he did exactly this, that he made these requests and that the fact they weren't fulfilled undermined him and meant he couldn't do his job. Implying that he is unable to forge any kind of team unless he is given top quality world-class players that cost a fortune in wages.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

When we were in for Moutinho we weren't up against Monaco, we could've got him before they were in the picture.

That's my understanding too, that we could've signed Moutinho in the summer of 2012.

Tottenham Hotspur missed out on Porto's Joao Moutinho by minutes - Telegraph

...Porto had accepted Spurs’ bid after it was raised to their €30 million (£24  million) asking price. But with Porto having paid Sporting Lisbon €11  million (£9 million) for Moutinho, his former club was due 25 per cent of the profit (£3.8 million) while an investor was also due 15 per cent of the overall fee (£3.6 million).

...Villas-Boas said: “We were covered for the fact it could not happen bearing in mind it was a difficult club to deal with and would have been a club record fee.
"We agreed the player terms late but there were situations regarding the contract that were not right so we didn’t complete the transfer.

Tottenham Hotspur still frustrated by failure to sign João Moutinho | Football | theguardian.com

André Villas-Boas's frustration at Tottenham Hotspur's failure to sign João Moutinho from Porto on transfer deadline day was compounded by the knowledge that the clubs had submitted an agreed deal sheet to the Premier League before the 11pm cut-off.

... It is understood that Moutinho wanted the move but his third party ownership presented one issue that could not be resolved before midnight. A third party investor owns 15% of Moutinho's economic rights, after deals were struck following the player's €10m transfer from Sporting Lisbon to Porto in 2010. Although Porto paid for 100% of Moutinho's rights, they sold 37.5% of them in October of that year to the investor for €4.2m before, in August 2011, buying back 22.5% of them. The investor's 15% entitled him to a cut of the fee and, under Premier League rules, which forbid third party ownership, he had to be bought out at the Porto end before the deal could be ratified.

However by January 2013

Joao Moutinho third party ownership bought out - but no move to Tottenham | Mail Online

Porto have restructured Joao Moutinho’s contract to remove any traces of third-party ownership in order to smooth a transfer but will not join Tottenham today – or in the summer.

It was the signing Villas-Boas wanted above all others in the summer but both Tottenham and Moutinho have moved on in six months since. It was the signing Villas-Boas wanted above all others in the summer but both Tottenham and Moutinho have moved on in six months since. Mousa Dembele has made a good impact and Lewis Holtby has just arrived at White Hart Lane.

...Porto announced last night that they had bought out the 15 per cent stake from a private investment company for about £3million. Moutinho joined Porto for £10m from Sporting Lisbon, who will receive 25 per cent of any profit when he leaves.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

er...

is there anyone who doesn't do that when they start a new job? you are solving their problem remember, they came to get you because they need you

Exactly.

Ramos and AVB were hired because they had experience of winning beyond what our club in the recent past has experienced. We brought them in because we wanted them to make something of us.

They then say 'ok, do this and we've got a great shot'. We then say 'We can't do that, but here's a bunch of young guys with potential, a couple of them may be good in a couple of years and if we are really lucky, one will turn into a superstar. In the mean time though you better be getting top 4, if not, you're out'.

aaaaaaaaaabsolute madness.

If this is what we want, we should have kept Harry (and maybe promoted Sherwood alongside him into a Technical Director position to oversee a clear vision and path from academy to first team, scouting etc) or we just give the job to Sherwood on the understanding that these are the types of players he will have to work with, and he is getting the job with no experience because he understands that, where as a big name coach would want to do things his own way.

Ramos and AVB were winners because they were at clubs that allowed them to get their system in place. To get the crucial types of players that make the system work and to have the power to weed out the dissenters if required, so that everyone in the club is pulling in the same direction. The mistake Levy makes is he hasn't looked at the circumstances that made them successful, he's just saw what they have done and thought 'brilliant! do that with us!' and doesn't provide them with the capability of doing so.

If our club is going to continue down the young players with potential route, sign a manager that is fine doing that. Maybe LvG is that guy. Sherwood may well be that guy. But let's sign him up and let him do the job. Don't waste time with the likes of Ramos and AVB thinking they are miracle workers because no manager is. They will suit a very particular situation and if we aren't going to create the environment for them, it's best not to bother.

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I don't think you can tell when I'm joking. I even put smilies in my posts when I address you to try and diffuse the intensity I seem to create by mentioning AVB with you around. The post you were referring to wasn't serious.

I have repeatedly said I was wrong at the start of the season. Of course I didn't mention anything when results were going well. I'm a fan and I'm enjoying the ride. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes and if things are going well I have no reason to assume anything other than everyone is pulling in the same direction.

But is it any wonder I doubt the board after the season we've had? I used to be a huge Levy fan, but my patience has now snapped with him. I'm shocked that so many people are still well on board with him despite failure after failure of managerial appointment.

I'm not desperate, I simply care less than I did. I thought the club were laying down long term foundations for the future but it became apparent they are just as trigger happy as always. I'm not desperate to defend AVB because I'm repeatedly praised Sherwood too, and I can acknowledge the good that has come from Levy. But my patience has gone with Levy. I no longer view him as the man with the plan, who is 5 moves ahead of everyone else like I used to. I used to be one of his biggest fans. I used to think it was a joke any other club could claim they had a better chairman than us. I thought he was so good...nah.

I said a few pages back, I don't view football as needing to find one manager who is this tactical GHod that's going to sort out all our problems. I'm not on Sherwood's back when we lose about his subs or about his tactics. I'm fine with him as a manager. And I was fine with AVB, despite the fact that they are different. I don't view the game as this man or that man making 'mistakes' because the game is just about choices, having to be made with 100s of external factors influencing those choices, some can be controlled and some can't. And there are no guarentees. You can set out to play defensively and lose 4-0, or you can set out to play defensively and win 4-0. The percentage chances of it happening are different but all sorts happens. I don't really buy into this guy is great or this guy is bad.

I defended AVB a lot because I had happened to read into him a lot. I've been just as behind Sherwood from a managerial perspective in terms of not going after him after every decision he makes when we lose, but I simply haven't been able to do it in as much detail because there's not much detail around on Sherwood's managerial philosophy. I'm not desperate, I really don't care, I've lost a lot of faith in the club this season. I simply wanted us to finally, finally, finally, back someone and have faith in someone and give them the time to build something. Not hoist ridiculous expectations on their shoulders and lose faith at the first sign of trouble. Of course I thought we could get top 4 at the start of the season, I was excited about the new signings and I am a fan.

But that's what gets me. Levy is not a fan. For me to respect him as a Chairman I have to think he is smarter than me. But actually he bought into the fact that he thought we could be title challengers with that investment too. And that's when I realised he isn't on some divine level of footballing knowledge and knows how everything is going to go down. He really has no more of an idea than me. And that's bad. I want my chairman to know far more than me, and I just don't believe Levy does (obviously in terms of finances he does, in terms of how to guide this club to the level he wants it to, I don't think he has any more clue than I do). And that's bad. This season has been an absolute disaster. It's been poor decision after poor decision and shown us up to be a club run by people that have no clue what they are doing. To me it's not about whether AVB is good or Sherwood is good. They are both good enough. They will both make decisions that will sometimes work and sometimes won't. But I really wanted us to establish something long term, and at the very least I didn't want us to have to write off a whole ****ing season because we can't have show some balls and back someone through a tough period. By Bale's value skyrocketing, we were given a real opportunity this year, and we blew it. Any other season being in the mix for 5th is about par. But we have been utter dog****, very rarely played well, the team has no style or identity and our season is over in March. After having our own little lottery win with the Bale money, it ain't good enough.

I think your current disappointment with Levy probably comes from holding him up to too high a position in the first place. Levy was never someone who was 5 steps ahead of everyone else.

He is currently what he always has been, a good and clever chairman, doing everything he can to squeeze every ounce of potential out of a reasonably sized club with some relatively decent cup success in the past, in some incredibly difficult and competitive market conditions, where we are outgunned financially by at least 7 to 8 clubs at any one time.

You say Levy makes wrong managerial appointment after another. But show me a club that goes more than a couple of seasons without sacking their manager. Arsenal, Everton, Man U??? Levy sticks with his managers as far as his working relationship with them is workable and the club is on course to achieve its objectives. Given he is an excellent businessman, he will also know that a relatively frequent turnover of high level staff isn't actually a bad thing and that new ideas and techniques can help keep you competitive at the top for longer.

You say the season has been a complete disaster, and it has been disappointing from the point of view of the standard of football played and the frequency of thrashings we've been on the end of. We're still on course to finish top 6 and meet our minimum objectives.

Levy made a mistake in hiring AVB, but he got rid as soon as the magnitude of the mistake became apparent. He's stuck Sherwood in charge as he didn't really have any alternative until the end of the season.

Similarly to the immediate post-Hoddle, post-Santini, post-Ramos reigns, this season will represent a blip in our otherwise very competitive and consistent outings under Levy.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well I think any good working relationship is about give and take. Neither party gets it all their own way, but generally the employer calls the shots for the most part.

I just think its incredible that some want to lay the blame for the breakdown in 'understanding' or the relationship at Levy's door.

Like anyone, AVB knew, or should have known what he was getting in for.

He should have known:

*Spurs operate a tight ship, with a rigid wage structure
*Spurs generally operate with a technical director and technical committee, which discusses and agrees long-term club strategy, including transfers
*The club mostly targets young players with potential, on lowish wages, with the aim of developing them, selling on and reinvesting
*In addition, the club had recently invested a tonne of money in a state of the art academy and had just destroyed the U21 league and NextGen series, so would probably be wanting their impressive youth set up to be utilised
*Levy is a tough negotiator and will only do a deal if it ticks all the 'Levy boxes'

What, did Andre think it was ok taking on the job, knowing and accepting all this, presumably having this reiterated at interview and in agreements, then start to demand Hulk, Villa, Willian, Moutinho once he was in the hot seat?

He'd have to be a pretty humongous penis to do this, but his supporters are claiming that he did exactly this, that he made these requests and that the fact they weren't fulfilled undermined him and meant he couldn't do his job. Implying that he is unable to forge any kind of team unless he is given top quality world-class players that cost a fortune in wages.

Presumably Andre thought 'I know what Levy is like, but I know he has massive plans for this club, and that's why he's brought me in. He can't seriously expect to build a title challenging team in one season by shopping in the bargain basement. He clearly wants my expertise on what I think it will take to make this club great.'

Levy's way is fine if we want to continue as we are and turn a nice profit when one of the punts turns into a superstar. It's not fine if we want to become title challengers and create the right environment for a top coach whose methods have proven to win something.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think your current disappointment with Levy probably comes from holding him up to too high a position in the first place. Levy was never someone who was 5 steps ahead of everyone else.

He is currently what he always has been, a good and clever chairman, doing everything he can to squeeze every ounce of potential out of a reasonably sized club with some relatively decent cup success in the past, in some incredibly difficult and competitive market conditions, where we are outgunned financially by at least 7 to 8 clubs at any one time.

You say Levy makes wrong managerial appointment after another. But show me a club that goes more than a couple of seasons without sacking their manager. Arsenal, Everton, Man U??? Levy sticks with his managers as far as his working relationship with them is workable and the club is on course to achieve its objectives. Given he is an excellent businessman, he will also know that a relatively frequent turnover of high level staff isn't actually a bad thing and that new ideas and techniques can help keep you competitive at the top for longer.

You say the season has been a complete disaster, and it has been disappointing from the point of view of the standard of football played and the frequency of thrashings we've been on the end of. We're still on course to finish top 6 and meet our minimum objectives.

Levy made a mistake in hiring AVB, but he got rid as soon as the magnitude of the mistake became apparent. He's stuck Sherwood in charge as he didn't really have any alternative until the end of the season.

Similarly to the immediate post-Hoddle, post-Santini, post-Ramos reigns, this season will represent a blip in our otherwise very competitive and consistent outings under Levy.

I always thought of Levy as someone that knew exactly what needed to be done to get us to where we want to go. Now I just look at him and see why the likes of Fergie roll their eyes when they talk about him. He tries to be someone he's not, he tries to play with the big boys while the big boys don't want to know. He is but a blip to them.

He far too easily makes his working relationship with managers unworkable. What exactly was unworkable about his relationship with Harry? He sacked him and brought AVB in because he had ideas above his station again, and he got it wrong. He had no intention of creating the environment for someone like AVB to flourish. Same with Ramos.

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I always thought of Levy as someone that knew exactly what needed to be done to get us to where we want to go. Now I just look at him and see why the likes of Fergie roll their eyes when they talk about him. He tries to be someone he's not, he tries to play with the big boys while the big boys don't want to know. He is but a blip to them.

He far too easily makes his working relationship with managers unworkable. What exactly was unworkable about his relationship with Harry? He sacked him and brought AVB in because he had ideas above his station again, and he got it wrong. He had no intention of creating the environment for someone like AVB to flourish. Same with Ramos.

His working relationship with Harry became unworkable when:

*HMRC attempted to do Harry for tax evasion
*Levy stuck by Harry, while court proceedings were ongoing and gave him the full support and backing of the club
*Harry won his court case and declined to enter into discussions surrounding a new contract with Spurs, but instead proceeded to openly flirt with the England job and take his eye off the ball leading to a spectacular collapse from comfortable 3rd 10 points clear to 4th and no CL
*Redknapp met Levy armed with a gang of his agents and negotiators demanding a big new contract once the England job had gone.

I think the fact that Fergie rolls his eyes when talking about Levy is a good thing. It means Fergie knows he's one of the few people in football that don't bend over and give Fergie/Man U an easy ride.

yes, we are a thorn in the side of the established clubs and when you look at other clubs of our stature, like Everton, Villa and Saudi Sportswashing Machine, I think you can see why it ****es them right off. We're the fly you can't swat, the turd that won't flush. Loving it!

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Presumably Andre thought 'I know what Levy is like, but I know he has massive plans for this club, and that's why he's brought me in. He can't seriously expect to build a title challenging team in one season by shopping in the bargain basement. He clearly wants my expertise on what I think it will take to make this club great.'

Levy's way is fine if we want to continue as we are and turn a nice profit when one of the punts turns into a superstar. It's not fine if we want to become title challengers and create the right environment for a top coach whose methods have proven to win something.

Well Andre was clearly on another planet to most of us then. We are not going to build a serious title challenging team in all likelihood until we get a new stadium and even then it is going to be a tall order. I'm pretty sure Levy and everyone else at the club sets our expectations accordingly.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well Andre was clearly on another planet to most of us then. We are not going to build a serious title challenging team in all likelihood until we get a new stadium and even then it is going to be a tall order. I'm pretty sure Levy and everyone else at the club sets our expectations accordingly.

So what do you think the expectations of Lewis and Levy were for this season?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

His working relationship with Harry became unworkable when:

*HMRC attempted to do Harry for tax evasion
*Levy stuck by Harry, while court proceedings were ongoing and gave him the full support and backing of the club
*Harry won his court case and declined to enter into discussions surrounding a new contract with Spurs, but instead proceeded to openly flirt with the England job and take his eye off the ball leading to a spectacular collapse from comfortable 3rd 10 points clear to 4th and no CL
*Redknapp met Levy armed with a gang of his agents and negotiators demanding a big new contract once the England job had gone.

I think the fact that Fergie rolls his eyes when talking about Levy is a good thing. It means Fergie knows he's one of the few people in football that don't bend over and give Fergie/Man U an easy ride.

yes, we are a thorn in the side of the established clubs and when you look at other clubs of our stature, like Everton, Villa and Saudi Sportswashing Machine, I think you can see why it ****es them right off. We're the fly you can't swat, the turd that won't flush. Loving it!

Fair enough on Harry, Harry played that badly and I was furious myself with him for it, but he still made the wrong choice in AVB.

The bolded bit...I really don't think the clubs do look at us like that. We're the club that talks a good game but when it comes down to it we never sustain the pressure. At the beginning of every season Wenger will always make some comment on us when expectations are shooting through the roof and he will always be proved right. It's inevitable as it is sad.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I always thought of Levy as someone that knew exactly what needed to be done to get us to where we want to go. Now I just look at him and see why the likes of Fergie roll their eyes when they talk about him. He tries to be someone he's not, he tries to play with the big boys while the big boys don't want to know. He is but a blip to them.

He far too easily makes his working relationship with managers unworkable. What exactly was unworkable about his relationship with Harry? He sacked him and brought AVB in because he had ideas above his station again, and he got it wrong. He had no intention of creating the environment for someone like AVB to flourish. Same with Ramos.

I think I have to come in and defend Levy a bit here.
Let's look back at the reasons why the last 3 managers were sacked.

Ramos: He was clearly a talented manager (he won us our only trophy in a decade and a half, beating formidable sides on the way), but the league results in Autumn 2008 (2 points from 8 games in case you don't know) given the squad we had was atrocious. I personally liked Ramos, but I couldn't argue against Levy's decision. We were going down if we weren't careful and whilst Levy had dragged out the Berbatove deal for too long which hampered out search for a replacement, I don't think there is any justification to being at the bottom with our squad at that time (even as unbalanced as it was). Levy mostly backed Ramos in the two transfer windows under Ramos as far as I remember.

Redknapp: he got us our best PL finishes, but his constant lack of attention and detail in he end cost us: how any manager in third can blow a 13 point lead is still to be explained by anything other than sheer neglect. In terms of backing Harry? He wanted players like Tevez or old players like Parker. This was not sustainable long-term especially given his poor record of fully utilising a squad over a season (remember how Corluka, Pienaar and Bassong were often underused and when used were more ring rusty than an abandoned tyre). Harry's neglect (he seemed to spend more time in the Sky studios/Sun hotdesks than the training pitch) and openly contradicting himself in regards to a new contract meant he HAD to go.

AVB: I wish we had kept AVB personally, but if the rumours of him making enemies across the organisation are true then, whilst you can ask if Levy could have made things more comfortable for AVB whilst here (personally I think TS is a snake and should be kicked out of the club altogether in the summer), if AVB become so intransigent and didn't want to fight for his job, how can you blame Levy?

Personally I hope that this summer will be used to weed out the snakes (like TS) who brief the media against us (see David Hynter's Guardian articles - who is HIS source??) and get us a good media management consultant (or similar).
The main problem half the time is that the media find us an easy target and media chums of the likes of TS and Harry will never give us a fair deal as long as we shun their mostly unprofessional mates.
That media pressure is something that has to be dealt with, but should to the level that is considering who our competitors are.
It of course would help to have a Manager who is tough enough to show two fingers to the media and show them his CV: step forward LVG.

Levy has his faults, but I think you went too fair in criticising him on that level imo.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think I have to come in and defend Levy a bit here.
Let's look back at the reasons why the last 3 managers were sacked.

Ramos: He was clearly a talented manager (he won us our only trophy in a decade and a half, beating formidable sides on the way), but the league results in Autumn 2008 (2 points from 8 games in case you don't know) given the squad we had was atrocious. I personally liked Ramos, but I couldn't argue against Levy's decision. We were going down if we weren't careful and whilst Levy had dragged out the Berbatove deal for too long which hampered out search for a replacement, I don't think there is any justification to being at the bottom with our squad at that time (even as unbalanced as it was). Levy mostly backed Ramos in the two transfer windows under Ramos as far as I remember.

Redknapp: he got us our best PL finishes, but his constant lack of attention and detail in he end cost us: how any manager in third can blow a 13 point lead is still to be explained by anything other than sheer neglect. In terms of backing Harry? He wanted players like Tevez or old players like Parker. This was not sustainable long-term especially given his poor record of fully utilising a squad over a season (remember how Corluka, Pienaar and Bassong were often underused and when used were more ring rusty than an abandoned tyre). Harry's neglect (he seemed to spend more time in the Sky studios/Sun hotdesks than the training pitch) and openly contradicting himself in regards to a new contract meant he HAD to go.

AVB: I wish we had kept AVB personally, but if the rumours of him making enemies across the organisation are true then, whilst you can ask if Levy could have made things more comfortable for AVB whilst here (personally I think TS is a snake and should be kicked out of the club altogether in the summer), if AVB become so intransigent and didn't want to fight for his job, how can you blame Levy?

Personally I hope that this summer will be used to weed out the snakes (like TS) who brief the media against us (see David Hynter's Guardian articles - who is HIS source??) and get us a good media management consultant (or similar).
The main problem half the time is that the media find us an easy target and media chums of the likes of TS and Harry will never give us a fair deal as long as we shun their mostly unprofessional mates.
That media pressure is something that has to be dealt with, but should to the level that is considering who our competitors are.
It of course would help to have a Manager who is tough enough to show two fingers to the media and show them his CV: step forward LVG.

Levy has his faults, but I think you went too fair in criticising him on that level imo.

I can absolutely see why we had to let Ramos go and Harry was the right guy for the time. But we sold 40 goals in one summer and replaced them with Pav and a Man United youth player. Not really creating the right environment for success if you ask me.

Harry I get, I probably did go to far there.

But AVB, I view it as a massive Levy mistake in either hiring the wrong guy, or not making it work with a good guy. Either way he's set us back a year and blown a big opportunity. AVB would fight for his job if he felt the environment was right. He joined us after all.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

BOL my apparent 'fury' when you continuously mention AVB in every thread is not directed at you tbh. I find this site baffling...i'll leave it there.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I can absolutely see why we had to let Ramos go and Harry was the right guy for the time. But we sold 40 goals in one summer and replaced them with Pav and a Man United youth player. Not really creating the right environment for success if you ask me.

Harry I get, I probably did go to far there.

But AVB, I view it as a massive Levy mistake in either hiring the wrong guy, or not making it work with a good guy. Either way he's set us back a year and blown a big opportunity. AVB would fight for his job if he felt the environment was right. He joined us after all.

Selling Berbatov and replacing with Frazier Campbell was not the best environment in terms of being a title/top 4 team. It should not have been the reason we ended up with 2 points from 8 games.

AVB: What in your mind would have made the environment right for AVB (apart from getting rid of the snakes like TS, that is)? I liked AVB and wished we'd kept faith for longer but Levy did spend ALL the Bale money on new players for AVB and that has not always been the case in the past, and tbh in our current stadium predicament could be considered as AVB being extremely lucky to get that much of the money at all

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So what do you think the expectations of Lewis and Levy were for this season?

I think they were to offer a strong challenge for top 4, with understandable minimum achievement being 6th and upwards.

I think they fully expected a rocky start while new signings bedded in, but that the team would come on stronger in the 2nd half of the season.

I don't think they demanded top 4. You'd have to be a fool to do that given:

*Our rebuilding job carried out in the summer
*Strength of City & Chelsea
*Man U defending champions
*Arsenal just very consistent top 4 finishes under Wenger and with large financial clout now stadium is paid off
*Clearly resurgent Liverpool who had pretty much been performing title-winning form in the 2nd half of the season before

What Levy & Lewis didn't expect:

*Big money investments to be marginalised/side-lined from the beginning (Lamela, Eriksen, Ade)
*Complete inability to create chances or goals
*Turgid, uninspiring football, especially at home, with no signs of improvements
*Total team collapses, such as 0-3 v West Ham, 6-0 v City, 0-5 v Liverpool
*Fallings out with back room staff, medical staff and technical director

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I can absolutely see why we had to let Ramos go and Harry was the right guy for the time. But we sold 40 goals in one summer and replaced them with Pav and a Man United youth player. Not really creating the right environment for success if you ask me.

Harry I get, I probably did go to far there.

But AVB, I view it as a massive Levy mistake in either hiring the wrong guy, or not making it work with a good guy. Either way he's set us back a year and blown a big opportunity. AVB would fight for his job if he felt the environment was right. He joined us after all.

But why are you laying the blame all at Levy's door? There has to be a bit of give and take in any relationship and based on all the ITK (yes, I know), press articles I've read, plus your own beliefs (as one of AVB's biggest fans), AVB pretty much held the club to ransom demanding very specific players, who were outside the club's financial comfort zone/realistic shopping range and then threw his toys out the pram when this didn't happen. He also marginalised expensive club assets like Ade, fell out with various staff and then when questioned about whether people like Ade, Lamela or Eriksen could be reintegrated into the team, supposedly took this as a personal attack/lack of support and made it clear that he didn't really want to fight for his job, or at least wasn't prepared to argue the toss with Levy & Baldini.

If you were Levy, would you continue with this relationship? AVB wasn't necessarily the worst appointment in hindsight, you can see why the club went with it. New, young coach, who blew them away in the interview with his ideas and scouting list of young talent from around the world. Its a shame that he didn't work with the parameters he himself apparently set out in his interview, but maybe he DID assume he'd get it all his own way once through the door and could convince Levy to splash the major cash?

Either way, I don't see it as a massive mistake, I think it was a mistake and certainly a gamble that Levy took. It seems its a gamble YOU wanted him to take, but you feel he should then have given into AVB's player demands, even though they were wholly unrealistic?

Surely AVB should have compromised and found solutions that were more realistic/affordable. For example, making use of Tom Huddlestone as a ball-playing midfielder in place of Moutinho in his preferred formation, or substituting for a less expensive alternative to Moutinho, such as perhaps Kevin Strootman etc?

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

But why are you laying the blame all at Levy's door? There has to be a bit of give and take in any relationship and based on all the ITK (yes, I know), press articles I've read, plus your own beliefs (as one of AVB's biggest fans), AVB pretty much held the club to ransom demanding very specific players, who were outside the club's financial comfort zone/realistic shopping range and then threw his toys out the pram when this didn't happen. He also marginalised expensive club assets like Ade, fell out with various staff and then when questioned about whether people like Ade, Lamela or Eriksen could be reintegrated into the team, supposedly took this as a personal attack/lack of support and made it clear that he didn't really want to fight for his job, or at least wasn't prepared to argue the toss with Levy & Baldini.

If you were Levy, would you continue with this relationship? AVB wasn't necessarily the worst appointment in hindsight, you can see why the club went with it. New, young coach, who blew them away in the interview with his ideas and scouting list of young talent from around the world. Its a shame that he didn't work with the parameters he himself apparently set out in his interview, but maybe he DID assume he'd get it all his own way once through the door and could convince Levy to splash the major cash?

Either way, I don't see it as a massive mistake, I think it was a mistake and certainly a gamble that Levy took. It seems its a gamble YOU wanted him to take, but you feel he should then have given into AVB's player demands, even though they were wholly unrealistic?

Surely AVB should have compromised and found solutions that were more realistic/affordable. For example, making use of Tom Huddlestone as a ball-playing midfielder in place of Moutinho in his preferred formation, or substituting for a less expensive alternative to Moutinho, such as perhaps Kevin Strootman etc?

Tbf to AVB he did, especially in the first half of his first season...how did that turn out and how often was Thud's play bemoaned by many as being too slow, not being able last a whole game etc?

Also, weren't Willian and Eriksen the eventual Moutinho alternatives?

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Tbf to AVB he did, especially in the first half of his first season...how did that turn out and how often was Thud's play bemoaned by many as being too slow, not being able last a whole game etc?

Also, weren't Willian and Eriksen the eventual Moutinho alternatives?

Huddlestone had come back from a long injury lay-off. His fitness needed building up. It was a project with him no doubt, but it was something worth attempting once Moutinho fell through. Thudd had performed consistently at a high level in the season we first got 4th and prior to injury in our CL run. He seems to have regained form and fitness with Hull this season.

Willian was always seemingly wanted to play in a preferred front 3 formation. Eriksen could possibly have been seen as the eventual Moutinho alternative, but didn't appear AVB was overly keen, which suggests this was the alternative suggested by the board and AVB went along with it because he didn't feel he had any choice and then lost confidence in him after a poor game v West Ham and pretty much wrote him off after that.