Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

But wasn't that the case for AVB too? he wasn't given the players he wanted - he got the players that Baldini/"the Committee" wanted, hence the less than magnificent seven and the results this season. And Deadwood was as much a part of the Committee as AVB so those 7 are as much his players as the previous manager.

Well that's kind of the problem. It's supposed to ensure continuity but all it ends up doing is ensuring nobody really gets what they want, and if it pushes one person too far it means the entire club is held backwards for a year.

It's like something I'm sure Thatcher said about politics. There's no point not being strong and firm on a lot of issues because being more centrist ensures nothing gets done. I get the idea of the committee, the idea that if one of the pieces leaves, there is enough continuity remaining there to keep it ticking on. But AVB and Sherwood were clearly apples and oranges in terms of how they wanted the team to play and the players required to do it, so to go from one to the other is really writing off the season.

I think Levy is clearly afraid of making the Head Coach too powerful and being scarred by a load of Hoddle/Rebrov situations where the new guy doesn't like the expensive talent. But that attitude holds us back from really getting behind someone and letting them build something. It means we are always a much of a muchness and will probably be able to sustain our position by playing it safe, but never moving forward. But I think Swansea have shown you don't need massive rebuiling every time you hire a new manager if you get the hiring process right. Levy thinks you need all this complicated committee/complicated scenario with too many cooks sticking their stirrers in, and I just don't think you do. Someone to oversee academy and scouting, sure, get someone to create a clear path to the first team. But 3/4 people all umming and aahing about transfers leaving the Head Coach, the most important guy in that process because he has to work directly with them, without players he really wants? It's a silly idea to me.

I think we should have backed AVB. If it is to be Sherwood, I hope we properly back Sherwood. If it's LvG I hope we back him. What I can't take is another season of investment, allowing Levy to claim he backed the manager, but losing faith at the first sign of trouble. We need to back someone and not be suspicious of them, thinking there is this magic guy out there that is going to come along and somehow sort everything out. It won't happen.

 

[Raziel]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

4 wins, 5 defeats (including Chelsea, Arsenal and Benfica) and a draw.

Think we're now 9 wins, 6 defeats and 3 draws under Sherwood.

Not quite as bad as you're trying to portray.

5 defeats in last 10
6 defeats in last 18
likely going to be 7 in 20

You are aware Everton lost 7 EPL games all season under Moyes last year

We are 9th in current form table

When is it going to be enough for people to stop blaming the players and realize the issue is TS? complete madness if we give this guy even the next 8 games.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Bale wasn't 'uber Bale' when we beat the Champions at Old Trafford, he was just very good Bale at this point.

Even this season, we went toe to toe with Chelsea this season and I don't think we disgraced ourselves against Arsenal without Bale. The City and Liverpool games were a blow but by that point things were unravelling behind the scenes anyway.

To be honest though, if we built a team that Sherwood wanted rather than one he inherited, I think he'd do good against the big teams too. The performance against potential champions Arsenal was good.

I still say it is too early to judge TS. Yes he has made mistakes ( which coach hasn't ?) but he hasn't had the players he wanted available. Only when ( if ?) he gets the chance to fashion a side to play the way he wants (like the previous managers have) with the players he wants and a full pre-season, will it be fair to judge his coaching/managerial abilities IMO.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...risis-ahead-of-europa-league-tie-9200566.html


https://www.google.ie/search?q=Erik...eriksen+injury&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official


Some are saying these stories are lies coming from Sherwood.

Which would mean that Sherwood, knowing that the EL is his last hope of success this season, left his best players at home or on the bench despite their being fit and raring to go. And then, he lied about those 4 or 5 inividuals - all top class internationals - whilst knowing any of them could tell the truth at any moment and severely damage him.

These conspiracy theories about Sherwood are starting to take on a creepy cultishness. Earlier today that nonsense about Sherwood not realising he had 2 players playing the same position, and now this thing about telling easily falsifiable and counter-productive lies. Real Kool-Aid stuff.

Agreed =D>

 

[Robbo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I still say it is too early to judge TS. Yes he has made mistakes ( which coach hasn't ?) but he hasn't had the players he wanted available. Only when ( if ?) he gets the chance to fashion a side to play the way he wants (like the previous managers have) with the players he wants and a full pre-season, will it be fair to judge his coaching/managerial abilities IMO.

The last thing we need is another massive summer clear out. There is a lot of talent in our squad, we mostly just need a proper tactic/system in place. I don't think Sherwood is the right man for that job. He might come good one day, but please let him practice his managerial skills at another club - we need someone with a bit of experience.

 

[chancer]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

5 defeats in last 10
6 defeats in last 18
likely going to be 7 in 20

Last 10 games:

1. Unlucky not to overturn Benfica last night with a second string team.
2. Matched (at least) Arsenal on the day, sucker punched with an early goal that was down to player error (hence Giletgate).
3. Conceded 3 terrible goals to individual mistakes, 2 at set pieces, against Benfica at home.
4. Matched (at least) Chelsea 11 v. 11 for an hour before a refereeing mistake killed us.
5. Decent if uninspiring win against Cardiff
6. Took out Dnipro on a great European night
7. Awful display against Norwich
8. Tight loss to Dnipro away, tie eventually won
9. Destroyed Toon
10. Beat one of our nearest rivals, Everton

In the previous 8 league games before that, we had 5 wins, 1 loss and 2 draws....which takes us back to the start of Sherwood's reign.

(I am 100% open to anyone disputing my characterisation of those above games, but that's honestly how I recall them.)

When is it going to be enough for people to stop blaming the players and realize the issue is TS?

When I see clear evidence TS is the issue. I don't see that at the moment. He has certainly made mistakes: not starting Soldado after his Cardiff goal was a howler, and his Sagna ball-throw was really, really stupid. He's probably also made some subbing mistakes too that people can remind me about.

But on the pitch? My abiding memory of last night will be Bentaleb (AVB's favourite, right?) bossing the midfield, Chadli doing almost as well, Soldado botching chances that would have taken us through, then impact subs Eriksen and Kane almost taking us home. Benfica? Can't remember much other than some show-boating early doors and a goal from 1 of their 3 shots on target all night (we had 5 on target). On top of which, a back 5 that had NEVER played together looking exceptionally well drilled and hardly putting a foot wrong against a scary attack. In hindsight, our overall shape looked really well thought-through and balanced.

How much credit is TS getting? Zero. Not a whiff. People have become totally blinded by this freakish hatred of the guy, the likes of which I can't recall for any previous manager. It is so bitter and so personalised it's incredible.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

hey Chancer, i wouldn't say it was a refereeing mistake that killed us, more Verts suicide ball

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well that's kind of the problem. It's supposed to ensure continuity but all it ends up doing is ensuring nobody really gets what they want, and if it pushes one person too far it means the entire club is held backwards for a year.

It's like something I'm sure Thatcher said about politics. There's no point not being strong and firm on a lot of issues because being more centrist ensures nothing gets done. I get the idea of the committee, the idea that if one of the pieces leaves, there is enough continuity remaining there to keep it ticking on. But AVB and Sherwood were clearly apples and oranges in terms of how they wanted the team to play and the players required to do it, so to go from one to the other is really writing off the season.

I think Levy is clearly afraid of making the Head Coach too powerful and being scarred by a load of Hoddle/Rebrov situations where the new guy doesn't like the expensive talent. But that attitude holds us back from really getting behind someone and letting them build something. It means we are always a much of a muchness and will probably be able to sustain our position by playing it safe, but never moving forward. But I think Swansea have shown you don't need massive rebuiling every time you hire a new manager if you get the hiring process right. Levy thinks you need all this complicated committee/complicated scenario with too many cooks sticking their stirrers in, and I just don't think you do. Someone to oversee academy and scouting, sure, get someone to create a clear path to the first team. But 3/4 people all umming and aahing about transfers leaving the Head Coach, the most important guy in that process because he has to work directly with them, without players he really wants? It's a silly idea to me.

I think we should have backed AVB. If it is to be Sherwood, I hope we properly back Sherwood. If it's LvG I hope we back him. What I can't take is another season of investment, allowing Levy to claim he backed the manager, but losing faith at the first sign of trouble. We need to back someone and not be suspicious of them, thinking there is this magic guy out there that is going to come along and somehow sort everything out. It won't happen.

No coach gets all the players he wants. Let's say Levy wanted to give AVB the players he wanted. Out of this list, which players do you think we realistically had a strong chance of obtaining:

*Moutinho
*Hulk
*Villa
*Coentrao

Yes, this team would have been awesome under AVB, no doubt:

..............Villa......Soldado......Hulk

............Sandro...Moutinho...Paulinho

Coentrao...Vertonghen...Kaboul......Walker

..........................Lloris

But we were never going to have a good chance of getting these players. Villa turned us down for Atletico, Coentrao decided to stay put at Real and would have gone to United over us. Hulk was just too expensive and Moutinho was a complex, expensive deal that could possibly have been done had we stretched the club's resources enough, but in the end I think Levy made the sensible decision not to put all our eggs in that basket.

Ultimately, any Spurs manager will have to work within our means. I think Levy is willing to give a manager what he wants if the players are available at a price we can afford and look like decent additions to the team.

I think for the most part Redknapp was given the players he wanted, as he never seemed to have unduly unrealistic targets. Redknapp was intelligent enough to identify players that were in our price bracket, that would want to play for Spurs and that would improve the team.

It annoyed me when I read that Ramos article complaining about our transfer committee. It was going so well before Ramos said who he wanted to replace Berbatov and Keane and I was like "yeah, right. That was never going to happen".

 

[chancer]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

hey Chancer, i wouldn't say it was a refereeing mistake that killed us, more Verts suicide ball

Aye, forgot about that. Verts mistake + Kaboul rescinded red was the difference.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

[tweet]447021544418848768[/tweet]

That's the funniest thing I've read in a long time. :ross:

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Please GHod no, please I can't take anymore.

 

[Lost Mango]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

This week Carragher, last week Wenger, both backing Deadwood to keep his job for the future.

Is this genuine honest opinion from them, do you think or them seeing this as a way to keep Spurs mediocre and not a threat to the top 5?

 

[Seedy Ron]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Tottenham boss can only be judged once he has entered the transfer market

The same transfer market he didn't think we needed to do anything in in January. Sigh.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

This week Carragher, last week Wenger, both backing Deadwood to keep his job for the future.

Is this genuine honest opinion from them, do you think or them seeing this as a way to keep Spurs mediocre and not a threat to the top 5?

Yep.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

No coach gets all the players he wants. Let's say Levy wanted to give AVB the players he wanted. Out of this list, which players do you think we realistically had a strong chance of obtaining:

*Moutinho
*Hulk
*Villa
*Coentrao

Yes, this team would have been awesome under AVB, no doubt:

..............Villa......Soldado......Hulk

............Sandro...Moutinho...Paulinho

Coentrao...Vertonghen...Kaboul......Walker

..........................Lloris

But we were never going to have a good chance of getting these players. Villa turned us down for Atletico, Coentrao decided to stay put at Real and would have gone to United over us. Hulk was just too expensive and Moutinho was a complex, expensive deal that could possibly have been done had we stretched the club's resources enough, but in the end I think Levy made the sensible decision not to put all our eggs in that basket.

Ultimately, any Spurs manager will have to work within our means. I think Levy is willing to give a manager what he wants if the players are available at a price we can afford and look like decent additions to the team.

I think for the most part Redknapp was given the players he wanted, as he never seemed to have unduly unrealistic targets. Redknapp was intelligent enough to identify players that were in our price bracket, that would want to play for Spurs and that would improve the team.

It annoyed me when I read that Ramos article complaining about our transfer committee. It was going so well before Ramos said who he wanted to replace Berbatov and Keane and I was like "yeah, right. That was never going to happen".

I simply think AVB would have preferred lesser numbers of players that are top class rather than more players that are merely good. For the same money I think we could have had at least Moutinho, Villa, Coentrao and probably Hulk as well. Probably add Paulinho in there too and we would have killed it.

 

[chancer]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I simply think AVB would have preferred lesser numbers of players that are top class rather than more players that are merely good. For the same money I think we could have had at least Moutinho, Villa, Coentrao and probably Hulk as well. Probably add Paulinho in there too and we would have killed it.

Villa - said publicly he didn't want to come.
Coentrao - said publicly he didn't want to come.
Hulk - one of the highest paid players in the world, current Brazil starting striker, and would have cost £40m+, assuming he'd even have been willing come to a non CL club averaging 5th place in the PL, which is extremely unlikely to say the least.
Moutinho - he ended up at Monaco, who are probably paying him more than double what we could have offered.


It is complete and utter fantasy land to say we could have gotten any of these players. So I don't know why it's being debated as if failure to bring them in was down to a lack of will or smarts on Spurs' part. Or, an unwillingness to back AVB. That is self evidently not the case.

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I simply think AVB would have preferred lesser numbers of players that are top class rather than more players that are merely good. For the same money I think we could have had at least Moutinho, Villa, Coentrao and probably Hulk as well. Probably add Paulinho in there too and we would have killed it.

we couldnt have afforded their wages.....AVB should have known that we operate in a different transfer market and set his sights accordingly.Everyone knows that Levy wont break the strict wage structure, Avb is smart enough to have known that too before he came to Spurs

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

if we couldn't afford the wage why did we waste time negotiating with Moutinho?

 

[Seedy Ron]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Moutinho - he ended up at Monaco, who are probably paying him more than double what we could have offered.

It is complete and utter fantasy land to say we could have gotten any of these players.

When we were in for Moutinho we weren't up against Monaco, we could've got him before they were in the picture.

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

if we couldn't afford the wage why did we waste time negotiating with Moutinho?

as i said the other day, once we had signed Dembele after selling Modric the whole last day Moutinho drama was just that, a drama to make it look like we were trying to sign Moutinho when in fact Levy had no intention in overspending that window by 30 mill (plus the massive wages)......its only my opinion, but we all should know Levy by now