milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I like it too and at least they are open about their allegiances
I like it too and at least they are open about their allegiances
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Tim Sherwood…gone \o/
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Chess is a simple game. It doesn't mean it is easy to setup openings and win from the off. It takes time to learn.
Or Go - it's an even more 'simple' game on the surface, with just white and black stones - yet it is one of the worlds most demanding and difficult strategy games. It's rules are extremely simple though. I think you are confusing a game's simplicity with it being easy.
Chess is a simple game. It doesn't mean it is easy to setup openings and win from the off. It takes time to learn.
Or Go - it's an even more 'simple' game on the surface, with just white and black stones - yet it is one of the worlds most demanding and difficult strategy games. It's rules are extremely simple though. I think you are confusing a game's simplicity with it being easy.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Neither of those games are simple though. Those who look at them as simple will never master them - just like football.
Neither of those games are simple though. Those who look at them as simple will never master them - just like football.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
We're basically arguing semantics. All three games are 'simple' in essence, especially Go - you have a grid and white and black stones. Yet the possible outcomes of each game are massively complex. You'll like this: "numerical estimates show that the number of possible games of Go far exceeds the number of atoms in the observable universe". But that does not make the game itself complex. In essence it is simple. How each game plays out, its almost unlimited variation is complex.
Its maybe better to look at what simplicity is in Sherwood's context: a leader who needs to communicate effective instructions. If you look at how the US army passes on instructions from president to foot soldier, each command, made down the chain is simple. Now I know the US army are not a great example of success! But the point is, you don't talk about the millions of possible complexities to a game, because no one but no one can control them. It's not like programming.
Instead you focus the individuals in the team on simple goals. Starting from winning the game, to their role etc.
We're basically arguing semantics. All three games are 'simple' in essence, especially Go - you have a grid and white and black stones. Yet the possible outcomes of each game are massively complex. You'll like this: "numerical estimates show that the number of possible games of Go far exceeds the number of atoms in the observable universe". But that does not make the game itself complex. In essence it is simple. How each game plays out, its almost unlimited variation is complex.
Its maybe better to look at what simplicity is in Sherwood's context: a leader who needs to communicate effective instructions. If you look at how the US army passes on instructions from president to foot soldier, each command, made down the chain is simple. Now I know the US army are not a great example of success! But the point is, you don't talk about the millions of possible complexities to a game, because no one but no one can control them. It's not like programming.
Instead you focus the individuals in the team on simple goals. Starting from winning the game, to their role etc.
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Bullet
Andy Thompson
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Nicely put SpurMeUp
When Sherwood says it is simple he is not saying it is easy or basic, he is trying to clear the players' minds of complexity and get them to focus on their key tasks such as stick to player A, always try to beat player B, make sure you do X and Y. But not overcomplicating it for each individual by telling them about the whole picture.
Nicely put SpurMeUp
When Sherwood says it is simple he is not saying it is easy or basic, he is trying to clear the players' minds of complexity and get them to focus on their key tasks such as stick to player A, always try to beat player B, make sure you do X and Y. But not overcomplicating it for each individual by telling them about the whole picture.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I'd like to think that but when Timmeh says it, it's to us and the press. People (traditional football journalists aside) who are perfectly capable of understanding the complexities of the modern game.
I'd like to think that but when Timmeh says it, it's to us and the press. People (traditional football journalists aside) who are perfectly capable of understanding the complexities of the modern game.
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Don't entirely agree with your Emirates Marketing Project/ Chelsea dooms day scenario. After all only 2 seasons ago Chelsea failed to finish in the top 4. Man utd, with an outstanding manager, were still able to dominate the financially doped clubs. No reason why Liverpool cannot win the league next season if they get a champions league place this season and keep Suarez. In fact some are giving them an outside chance of winning it this year ( I think it is too early). Arsenal are falling away this season because they did not have a coherent transfer strategy last Summer despite Ivan Gazidis shooting his mouth off. Let's face it Ozil, while feted at the time was an opportunistic buy a bit like van der vaart was for us. They failed to strengthen for example their strike force and to buy the leader in midfield they have been crying out for since Viera left. The reason for their failures appear not financial but rather more about poor choices. As for us a combination of awful luck and consistently failing to get in the right manager has cost our club dearly but I still live in hope that it is not all over. That is not to say that having the unlimited resources of Chelsea and City is not massively helpful in being successful it's just not the be all and end all IMO.
Don't entirely agree with your Emirates Marketing Project/ Chelsea dooms day scenario. After all only 2 seasons ago Chelsea failed to finish in the top 4. Man utd, with an outstanding manager, were still able to dominate the financially doped clubs. No reason why Liverpool cannot win the league next season if they get a champions league place this season and keep Suarez. In fact some are giving them an outside chance of winning it this year ( I think it is too early). Arsenal are falling away this season because they did not have a coherent transfer strategy last Summer despite Ivan Gazidis shooting his mouth off. Let's face it Ozil, while feted at the time was an opportunistic buy a bit like van der vaart was for us. They failed to strengthen for example their strike force and to buy the leader in midfield they have been crying out for since Viera left. The reason for their failures appear not financial but rather more about poor choices. As for us a combination of awful luck and consistently failing to get in the right manager has cost our club dearly but I still live in hope that it is not all over. That is not to say that having the unlimited resources of Chelsea and City is not massively helpful in being successful it's just not the be all and end all IMO.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I find all of this a bit bizarre. I really don't care what a manager says in his press conferences as long as he doesn't make the club look bad.
It is the norm for managers to talk ******** before and after games, very few, if any give you a true insight into their thoughts.
Fair enough, Sherwood isn't hitting your G-Spot but it's hardly the be all and end all.
I find all of this a bit bizarre. I really don't care what a manager says in his press conferences as long as he doesn't make the club look bad.
It is the norm for managers to talk ******** before and after games, very few, if any give you a true insight into their thoughts.
Fair enough, Sherwood isn't hitting your G-Spot but it's hardly the be all and end all.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I really don't think he is keeping it simple for those who require it.
Well, I think he is, but I think he's one of those that requires it.
I know of three managers Sherwood's worked with - Hoddle, AVB and Redknapp. Of those three he's fallen out spectacularly with the two who could be described as technical 'thinkers'. The only one he has got on with is the one who (let's be very, very generous) is of average intelligence at best. That suggests a worrying football philosophy to me - one that is likely to limit us to feeding off scraps if he gets to implement it.
I really don't think he is keeping it simple for those who require it.
Well, I think he is, but I think he's one of those that requires it.
I know of three managers Sherwood's worked with - Hoddle, AVB and Redknapp. Of those three he's fallen out spectacularly with the two who could be described as technical 'thinkers'. The only one he has got on with is the one who (let's be very, very generous) is of average intelligence at best. That suggests a worrying football philosophy to me - one that is likely to limit us to feeding off scraps if he gets to implement it.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I'd love it if he turns out to be as good as Arry and we finish 4th if that's your definition of feeding off scraps.
I honestly believe we could have got relegated and you would have still found a way to defend AVB.
I'd love it if he turns out to be as good as Arry and we finish 4th if that's your definition of feeding off scraps.
I honestly believe we could have got relegated and you would have still found a way to defend AVB.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
It's difficult to know where the blame lies with AVB. By all accounts he fell out with everyone at the club other than the Portuguese coaches he brought in with him and it was this rather than just results that resulted in him leaving.
If we want examples of Sherwood falling out with managers then Hoddle and Hodgson would probably be the best examples but he has since tried to draw a line under both and has described Hodgson as the best coach he worked with.
It's difficult to know where the blame lies with AVB. By all accounts he fell out with everyone at the club other than the Portuguese coaches he brought in with him and it was this rather than just results that resulted in him leaving.
If we want examples of Sherwood falling out with managers then Hoddle and Hodgson would probably be the best examples but he has since tried to draw a line under both and has described Hodgson as the best coach he worked with.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
We only finished 4th because:
City weren't established yet
Chelsea ****ed up
So yes, that's feeding off scraps. Surely even Redknapp's most fervent supporters must realise that we wouldn't have finished 4th if neither of those things had happened.
I'm not defending AVB, I'm stating my concerns about us employing a manager who has a history of lashing out against those more intelligent than him.
We only finished 4th because:
City weren't established yet
Chelsea ****ed up
So yes, that's feeding off scraps. Surely even Redknapp's most fervent supporters must realise that we wouldn't have finished 4th if neither of those things had happened.
I'm not defending AVB, I'm stating my concerns about us employing a manager who has a history of lashing out against those more intelligent than him.
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
soooo 4th is only an achivement if other teams are firing on all cylinders and we beat them to 4th right?
soooo 4th is only an achivement if other teams are firing on all cylinders and we beat them to 4th right?
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I think that is a bizarre, skewed version of events.
Unless you mean that Chelsea ****ed up by hiring a certain AVB!
I think that is a bizarre, skewed version of events.
Unless you mean that Chelsea ****ed up by hiring a certain AVB!
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Well on the assumption that what you want is the long term success of our club then yes - we can't just hang around the EL waiting for one of the top 4/5 to screw up and lend us their CL space for a year.
If all you want is EL qualification and a CL run every few years then great, what we had was spot on. That's not nearly enough for me.
Well on the assumption that what you want is the long term success of our club then yes - we can't just hang around the EL waiting for one of the top 4/5 to screw up and lend us their CL space for a year.
If all you want is EL qualification and a CL run every few years then great, what we had was spot on. That's not nearly enough for me.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Chelsea ****ed up by finishing 3 places and a whole bunch of points behind where they should have done.
Chelsea ****ed up by finishing 3 places and a whole bunch of points behind where they should have done.
Cochise
Steve Carr
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
These last two years we should've capitalised on the failing Chelsea management merry go round, Liverpool's transition phase and Arensal's failings. Now we are in a position that could really go badly for us. Man UTD will never stay out of the top four for more than a couple of years, they have too much going for them. Even if Rooney et al all leave, they will buy new players and if Moyes can't get them firing then his head will role.
Right now I would say that even though our football doesn't deserve it, we should aim for top four or face a few more years of falling short. This really is for me the last chance we have (unless UTD storm up the league and Liverpool fall apart). The one saving grace would be that next years EL winner gains entry into the CL, so even finishing fifth this season could still be ok if we aim for EL glory the next. I'd still prefer to see an appointment like LVG for 2-3 years with Sherwood as understudy regardless of how we do this season.
These last two years we should've capitalised on the failing Chelsea management merry go round, Liverpool's transition phase and Arensal's failings. Now we are in a position that could really go badly for us. Man UTD will never stay out of the top four for more than a couple of years, they have too much going for them. Even if Rooney et al all leave, they will buy new players and if Moyes can't get them firing then his head will role.
Right now I would say that even though our football doesn't deserve it, we should aim for top four or face a few more years of falling short. This really is for me the last chance we have (unless UTD storm up the league and Liverpool fall apart). The one saving grace would be that next years EL winner gains entry into the CL, so even finishing fifth this season could still be ok if we aim for EL glory the next. I'd still prefer to see an appointment like LVG for 2-3 years with Sherwood as understudy regardless of how we do this season.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
If we were to finish 4th this season then, would that not be a good sign for you? United may have dropped out and are playing below themselves similar to Chelsea in 11/12 - but Liverpool are looking strong and of course the top 3 are playing well to boot so it's not really comparable to Redknapps final season where there were only really two consistent on form teams in the top 4 to compete with.
If we were to finish 4th this season then, would that not be a good sign for you? United may have dropped out and are playing below themselves similar to Chelsea in 11/12 - but Liverpool are looking strong and of course the top 3 are playing well to boot so it's not really comparable to Redknapps final season where there were only really two consistent on form teams in the top 4 to compete with.