• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

  • Total voters
    125
  • Poll closed .
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Association football is not played in a statistical way.... American football is.

If you play percentages why did we lose to arsenal dispute having the ball more than them? Was it because our PDO or SOTR were low or was it because they took a chance well, the played us in the counter?

I have worked with rocket scientists and people who design aeroplane Engines and they would t ever try to put a sport with so many variables into a statistical analysis like this and argue it's almost fact!!!!

The reality is we are scoring more from less shots under Sherwood - were therefore more efficient in our shooting
We are having marginally less possession overall per game I believe under him - to be successful you need the ball but you don't need it all the time and it's pointless anyway unless you do something with it
We're now conceding less despite being without our best defenders - the defensive 4-2-3-1 system allows team to attack you still, whereas the classic/basic 4-4-2 means attack is the best form of defence?!?!?

I'm still waiting for who every it was on here who said about it to show me a photo of Sherwood **** tattoo because clearly some people on this forum know sooooo much about the guy!

And a final comment.... I was told over two years ago that he was being groomed to take over at some point and that was before AVB had been sacked from Chelski. He didn't need to whisper sweet nothings in the ear of Levy if he was ear marked for the top job a while back did he?!?!
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

scaramanga said:
No you don't. Luck doesn't exist, random, unconnected events do.

Sometimes those random unconnected events all line up one way, sometimes they all line up the other. Most of the time they're scattered all over the place.

When you take out (almost) everything that's controlled, what's left is (mostly) those events.
Click to expand...


The key question then is: are we in control of events? Or do they simply happen? In this context do mangers and football players have agency to affect/ change/ control events? If the answer is yes...then we make our own luck.


There's no comparison there, no 'one is better than the other,' simply statements if fact about points accrued compared to the best measures of performance we can use.
Click to expand...

Maybe one reason Sherwood has promise is because he has a good grasp of common sense! In fact AVB mentioned how stats only told him so much and talking with players was key for him. The best measures about the complexities of performance are what we see with our own eyes. They allow us to discern a sitter from a 30 yard shot etc etc.
 
Last edited:
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

SpurMeUp said:
The key question then is are we in control of events? Or do they simply happen? In this context do mangers and football players have agency to affect/ change/ control events? If the answer is yes...then we make our own luck.
Click to expand...

We can control some events, many we can't. The events we can control are (mostly) taken out of the equation by the ratios upon which this is based.

So what's left (or around 60%) of it is chance/luck/chaos/whatever you want to call it.


SpurMeUp said:
There's no comparison there, no 'one is better than the other,' simply statements if fact about points accrued compared to the best measures of performance we can use.

Maybe one reason Sherwood has promise is because he has a good grasp of common sense! In fact AVB mentioned how stats only tell him so much and talking with players was key. The best measures about the complexities of perform are what we see with our own eyes.
Click to expand...

I know a lot of people with a good grasp of common sense that are terrible at pretty much everything. I also know loads with none who are incredibly good at specific jobs/skills. Common sense (however that is measured) is no signifier of success or ability in any given field.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

One interesting, if unrelated thing, is that people who feel they control life, are less stressed and more successful.

Common sense tends to provide a wider range of ability and may involve observation and judgement. All things that should outperform the value of reducing something complex into neat numbers that we can play with.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Bedfordspurs said:
Association football is not played in a statistical way.... American football is.

(1) If you play percentages why did we lose to arsenal dispute having the ball more than them? Was it because our PDO or SOTR were low or was it because they took a chance well, the played us in the counter?

(2) I have worked with rocket scientists and people who design aeroplane Engines and they would t ever try to put a sport with so many variables into a statistical analysis like this and argue it's almost fact!!!!

The reality is we are scoring more from less shots under Sherwood - were therefore more efficient in our shooting
We are having marginally less possession overall per game I believe under him - to be successful you need the ball but you don't need it all the time and it's pointless anyway unless you do something with it
We're now conceding less despite being without our best defenders - the defensive 4-2-3-1 system allows team to attack you still, whereas the classic/basic 4-4-2 means attack is the best form of defence?!?!?

I'm still waiting for who every it was on here who said about it to show me a photo of Sherwood **** tattoo because clearly some people on this forum know sooooo much about the guy!

And a final comment.... I was told over two years ago that he was being groomed to take over at some point and that was before AVB had been sacked from Chelski. He didn't need to whisper sweet nothings in the ear of Levy if he was ear marked for the top job a while back did he?!?!
Click to expand...

1: Are these honest questions? Are you really asking why we lost to Arsenal despite having the ball more than them?

2: Well, perhaps because rocket scientists are experts in... rockets?

It has actually been demonstrated that in many environments with many variables simple, imperfect, but objective measures can outperform experts analyzing the available data. For example it's been shown that when trying to predict how likely a patient is to be readmitted to an institution the simple, imperfect, but objective measure of only the thickness of the patient's journal was a better predictor than the evaluation of doctors and other health care professionals.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

This has been interesting. But scaras posts have just gone from parody to downright surreal. I think even the rest of the anti tim people (I'm partly one of them, but clearly just a little more open minded) must be cringing at this insane display of driving an agenda in the most painful manner. It's all just really weird...
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

GrimsbyYid said:
This has been interesting. But scaras posts have just gone from parody to downright surreal. I think even the rest of the anti tim people (I'm partly one of them, but clearly just a little more open minded) must be cringing at this insane display of driving an agenda in the most painful manner. It's all just really weird...
Click to expand...

This.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

GrimsbyYid said:
This has been interesting. But scaras posts have just gone from parody to downright surreal. I think even the rest of the anti tim people (I'm partly one of them, but clearly just a little more open minded) must be cringing at this insane display of driving an agenda in the most painful manner. It's all just really weird...
Click to expand...

I think there are signs of obsessiveness in this. Ive been reading the last few pages but more for comedic value than anything else.

I think its very sad that football has become so stats driven that it seems to be the be all and end all. When people talk about sucking the joys out of football, going down the route of statistical evaluations is certainly a contributing factor. I'm a bit old school in that I like to use my eyes, and right now we are playing better football than under the previous regime.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

DHSF said:
I think there are signs of obsessiveness in this. Ive been reading the last few pages but more for comedic value than anything else.

I think its very sad that football has become so stats driven that it seems to be the be all and end all. When people talk about sucking the joys out of football, going down the route of statistical evaluations is certainly a contributing factor. I'm a bit old school in that I like to use my eyes, and right now we are playing better football than under the previous regime.
Click to expand...

I'm with you totally fella. Maybe we're just too old fashioned.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

DHSF said:
I think there are signs of obsessiveness in this. Ive been reading the last few pages but more for comedic value than anything else.

I think its very sad that football has become so stats driven that it seems to be the be all and end all. When people talk about sucking the joys out of football, going down the route of statistical evaluations is certainly a contributing factor. I'm a bit old school in that I like to use my eyes, and right now we are playing better football than under the previous regime.
Click to expand...
agree
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Trotter said:
It is basically just someone trying to use their view of some flawed statistics and assumptions to show the fact that even though we were playing poor under AVB, and our shooting and saving %'s were rubbish under AVB, that is was all just down to pure luck, and he would have turned it all around, and his view that AVB was our saviour therefore continues and Sherwood is a lucky chancer, rather than have to admit that AVB just had the team and individuals under-performing, getting worse each week, and currently Sherwood has them over-achieving and creating better chances, and improved results. The argument is just not credible.


And by the way I do have a masters degree in statistics, so I am certainly in my comfort zone
Click to expand...

This.

The whole statistical basis is seriously flawed by the lack of validity of the assumptions it is based on. This makes the whole exercise futile IMO. I prefer to rely on the judgement of my eyes. We are creating more and better chances now, have more men in and around the penalty area and attack with greater speed and conviction. That is the reason why we have had better results recently. This change is largely down to the tactics, formation and personnel employed by TS. Especially impressive considering (arguably) our two first choice centre backs, our two first choice midfielders and our most in-form attacker haven't been available to him. Bloody miracle I would say to get 16 out of 18 points in those circumstances. Luck be damned. Well done Tim.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Mulletperm said:
I'm with you totally fella. Maybe we're just too old fashioned.
Click to expand...

Put me in the old fashioned phalanx too. I like my football to be enjoyable, entertaining and exciting. Sorry if that offends the stats phalanx.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Pirate55 said:
Put me in the old fashioned phalanx too. I like my football to be enjoyable, entertaining and exciting. Sorry if that offends the stats phalanx.
Click to expand...

Absolutely this, people can quote me all the stats they want, but we have a tradition at our club of playing entertaining attacking football. Well done Tim for resurrecting it.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'll judge him based on the football we play, little else. So far I'm fairly impressed, at least by the way we're trying to play the game. Bottom line is it's an improvement on what we were watching before.
There are things I'd be critical about, but injuries have played a big part in selection so far. So I'll wait and see what a full strength Sherwood's Spurs are capable of before I start to form an opinion on whether he's the answer in the long term.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm in danger of taking this thread even more off topic here but what the hell.

A question for those that are saying they prefer observation to use of stats. Do you recognise that we often see what we want to see and disregard things that contradict our preconceptions?

I am not saying that use of stats is perfect either. People often consciously or subconsciously cherry pick data to suit their argument.

I guess what I am saying is how do we check our prejudice? How often do people acknowledge when people with opposing views make a good point?
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

milo said:
A question for those that are saying they prefer observation to use of stats.
Click to expand...

One from me too if you all don't mind.

Let's say we play a team and lose 2-0 but we were the better team by far. Do you go with your interpretation or do you go with the fact that people counted the goals and have made a statement of fact based on that accurate count?

Your interpretation can tell you we did better than the other team, the people that counted real facts will tell you that we lost.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

scaramanga said:
One from me too if you all don't mind.

Let's say we play a team and lose 2-0 but we were the better team by far. Do you go with your interpretation or do you go with the fact that people counted the goals and have made a statement of fact based on that accurate count?

Your interpretation can tell you we did better than the other team, the people that counted real facts will tell you that we lost.
Click to expand...

Your starting to sound like Brendan Rogers :lol:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back