Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[metalgear]

Arsenal 2-2, dominated PSG for 70 minutes and a clear win over Burnley - all with different set up, tactics and players.
I've seen enough to know that TF is a great coach !

 

[parklane1]

Enjoying how we play so far, there is still work to do but its begining to look promising,

 

[Bullet]

Arsenal 2-2, dominated PSG for 70 minutes

We beat the Arse-anal 1-0 with Sarr's long range lob, then 2-2 was PSG

 

[carl]

Great coach, slowly making me enjoy Spurs again.

Nice to have a manager instructing players from the touchline rather than standing with his hands in his pockets shaking his head.

Ive got a good feeling about this season. Obviously there will be bumps along the way but I'm sure we'll see progression.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

There's obviously narcissistic traits which are very different from the more exaggerated narcissistic personality disorder (NPD).

I'm hoping what you meant was a couple of the less dangerous traits like self importance and power. I think we all admire the drive and even arrogance of the best of the best. It goes with the territory. If you're advocating for people with NPD then that doesn't wash with me at all.

In my experience, the above traits are the least of your worries from people with NPD who take it to the next level. It's about control, gas lighting, zero empathy, exploitation of others for their own gain. These are traits of a narcissist. At the extreme condition, they exists to tame the bull until they completely own them. The more the bull fights back, the more they get out of it. However, they will also be nice as pie on other occasions to get into your head. It's a really unpleasant daily ritual being around that type of narcissist.

In my case, once I had complete clarity of what was happening through conversations with friends that were trained in these areas, I stopped fighting (my natural instinct) and found a way to separate. This was workplace related and I was mid career. I also learnt in the process that people with NPD suffer greatly themselves and need therapy.

So back to Jose, I think in the early days he was just adopting a couple of the self importance traits. I think we all found it all quite funny and loved his arrogance. Obviously KDB didn't as he was gas lighted and made his own decisions. By the time it came to later career and players like Shaw, Smalling and Dele he was clearly using the all those next level traits and he presented as NPD. The one I felt sorry for was Smalling as he didn't resist. He even followed him to Italy as Jose was well and truly in his head. Shaw was probably the toughest cookie and figured this all out early. Dele was incredibly vulnerable at the time and I believe Jose's NPD took over. I'm glad Dele refused to become subservient to him though. I knew at the time that Jose wasn't going to change. He can't. I wasn't surprised that Levy and co took action eventually and removed Jose from the club in the same way that Chelsea had over the club doctor. It had all gone beyond a healthy working culture in my opinion. It wasn't about the cup final chances. It was bigger than that.

I'm intrigued to learn more about Frank's personality to be fair, especially when he's under the most pressure. I have a good feeling about his authenticity.

I think the Jose topic is really interesting as it relates to Frank, as in a purely tactical sense the overall idea isn’t super different. In the sense that Jose in his most basic form was attack the weaker teams when we are expected to win and chase goals, and counter the stronger ones. I’m really over simplifying, but I see something similar in Frank.

I agree with @DubaiSpur in Jose is up there with SAF and above Pep because he won the biggest trophies when he wasn’t expected to. I think also that his advantages came in the opposition analysis and tactical periodisation, and while he was ahead of the competition that. He was unstoppable. But once the game caught up to his innovations, he was only able to get ‘lesser’ jobs.

When in those ‘lesser’ jobs, he saw it as his goal to level up the standards and mentality of the players, so that they could compete at the level he knows it takes to succeed. I think it’s telling that with us, players like Kane that had an elite mentality didn’t mind Jose’s management style at all. And I don’t think he was wrong generally on the mentality of the squad overall. Equally there’s stories of him being pretty harsh and direct with players like Ozil at Madrid, but he was an elite player and thrived. KDB may be a fair point, equally he had to go to Bremen and prove himself before becoming truly elite himself. And Jose’s diagnosis of the general attitude at United was probably completely correct.

I think that, absent the preparation and analysis advantages, it’s not enough to try and shift the entire mentality of a squad that way. It will work with some and not others, and will be inherently divisive. What it takes to get a squad of younger players who haven’t been to the mountaintop before is a cutting edge tactical or preparation idea, which is why Poch was able to get elite numbers out of Dele, Walker, Jan, etc. I also think that Jose’s intensity, like Conte’s, means the approach works for 2-3 years before losing steam.

To bring it back to Frank, I’m curious as to what people think his secret sauce is. Clearly there’s a set piece focus. What else? Is it a willingness to be more tactically flexible than other top level managers? Is there something in the preparation we don’t yet see? Is there something deeper in the tactical idea that hasn’t been as discussed much as yet? I feel like if he’s going to take us to heights we haven’t seen, there has to be something else beyond flexibility / pragmatism / set pieces. And I’m not saying he doesn’t have it, but I am curious as to what people think it might be?

Or maybe there is no new thing under the PL sun anymore, to name check a Twitter legend, and the scope for radical innovation when the game is so global and information flows so freely just isn’t there anymore? Wenger came in and was radical. Jose again so. I think what marked Poch out as interesting was he had an initial idea that was fairly radical, but kept adapting through his years with us. Ange was radical in being willing to try a style most would consider too naive. Maybe to be a top / elite coach at this moment in time is to be a voracious learner, and doing whatever in takes to find the marginal gains in the context of the advantages and constraints your club provides?

 

[billyiddo]

I think the Jose topic is really interesting as it relates to Frank, as in a purely tactical sense the overall idea isn’t super different. In the sense that Jose in his most basic form was attack the weaker teams when we are expected to win and chase goals, and counter the stronger ones. I’m really over simplifying, but I see something similar in Frank.

I agree with @DubaiSpur in Jose is up there with SAF and above Pep because he won the biggest trophies when he wasn’t expected to. I think also that his advantages came in the opposition analysis and tactical periodisation, and while he was ahead of the competition that. He was unstoppable. But once the game caught up to his innovations, he was only able to get ‘lesser’ jobs.

When in those ‘lesser’ jobs, he saw it as his goal to level up the standards and mentality of the players, so that they could compete at the level he knows it takes to succeed. I think it’s telling that with us, players like Kane that had an elite mentality didn’t mind Jose’s management style at all. And I don’t think he was wrong generally on the mentality of the squad overall. Equally there’s stories of him being pretty harsh and direct with players like Ozil at Madrid, but he was an elite player and thrived. KDB may be a fair point, equally he had to go to Bremen and prove himself before becoming truly elite himself. And Jose’s diagnosis of the general attitude at United was probably completely correct.

I think that, absent the preparation and analysis advantages, it’s not enough to try and shift the entire mentality of a squad that way. It will work with some and not others, and will be inherently divisive. What it takes to get a squad of younger players who haven’t been to the mountaintop before is a cutting edge tactical or preparation idea, which is why Poch was able to get elite numbers out of Dele, Walker, Jan, etc. I also think that Jose’s intensity, like Conte’s, means the approach works for 2-3 years before losing steam.

To bring it back to Frank, I’m curious as to what people think his secret sauce is. Clearly there’s a set piece focus. What else? Is it a willingness to be more tactically flexible than other top level managers? Is there something in the preparation we don’t yet see? Is there something deeper in the tactical idea that hasn’t been as discussed much as yet? I feel like if he’s going to take us to heights we haven’t seen, there has to be something else beyond flexibility / pragmatism / set pieces. And I’m not saying he doesn’t have it, but I am curious as to what people think it might be?

Or maybe there is no new thing under the PL sun anymore, to name check a Twitter legend, and the scope for radical innovation when the game is so global and information flows so freely just isn’t there anymore? Wenger came in and was radical. Jose again so. I think what marked Poch out as interesting was he had an initial idea that was fairly radical, but kept adapting through his years with us. Ange was radical in being willing to try a style most would consider too naive. Maybe to be a top / elite coach at this moment in time is to be a voracious learner, and doing whatever in takes to find the marginal gains in the context of the advantages and constraints your club provides?

I don't think there is a secret sauce as such with Frank, nor does there need to be. Managers who are just good across the board can do well without having an edge that gives them an advantage - potentially these managers will have more longevity as they aren't relying on a singular 'thing' giving them the upper hand (which could be rendered impotent over time or if they don't get exactly what they need to make it work)

I think Frank's 'strength' with that in mind will be/could be that he focuses on all aspects of team/squad building and match preparation, player development etc, essentially everything under his sphere of influence throughout a season, to ensure all aspects are being given attention and trying to be improved upon.

Edit : what I have been thinking recently is that perhaps for us that is a better style of manager for where we are as a club - a manager who will adapt to the players he has available, who will put a plan in place to develop/get the best out of them, who will adapt his tactics when the occasion calls for it - having a system can be great and we saw with Poch that the right type of system manager can do well but we also how that can fall apart and also with Conte & Ange we saw other pitfalls.

Brentford regularly took points off of big teams - there was a stat from last season that said they had more points v the big six than any team in the league iirc, we've often been bottom of the top 6 mini league - if we can turn that one part of our game around then that's worth a couple of positions in the table - we also tend to get knocked out of cups in the latter stages when facing our peers/better teams, potentially we now have a manager that will be able see us through those types of fixtures more than we have previously.

 

[Bullet]

Spot on Bill.
Perhaps Frank's secret sauce is NOT having a blind spot and NOT having an obsession. Some managers seem hell bent on playing a certain style, or hell bent on never signing a striker or DM despite everyone telling them what they need. In fact loads of top managers have some really obvious flaw which ultimately brings them down. Perhaps floppy-fringed Frank's flaws are fewer.