• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

The youth players/on-loan thread 2016-17

U23s lost 1-0 at Southampton, another underwhelming performance. KWP by a distance our best player, I'm a little disappointed for him that he wasn't involved midweek but hopefully he'll get his chance at some point. Edwards wasn't in the squad tonight so maybe a small chance he's travelled with the first team, he has had a busy week but then so has Anton Walkes who played 90 tonight so who knows.
 
Yoof said:
U23s lost 1-0 at Southampton, another underwhelming performance. KWP by a distance our best player, I'm a little disappointed for him that he wasn't involved midweek but hopefully he'll get his chance at some point. Edwards wasn't in the squad tonight so maybe a small chance he's travelled with the first team, he has had a busy week but then so has Anton Walkes who played 90 tonight so who knows.
Click to expand...
Tottenham Academy ‏@thfcacademy 2h2 hours ago
Ages of Tottenham U23 starters this evening: 18, 19, 18, 19, 18, 17, 18, 16, 18, 16, 18.
 
braineclipse said:
Too much focus on the results for the U23 side. It's about player development, not results in games.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree that development is the priority.
My personal caveat to this, is young players tend to develop quicker in a winning environment.

Ugo Ehiogu U23 side is not a winning environment for retaining the 'better' younger players.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
ok that makes me feel better, they're all basically 5 years + under the age group!
Click to expand...

StephenH said:
I tend to agree that development is the priority.
My personal caveat to this, is young players tend to develop quicker in a winning environment.

Ugo Ehiogu U23 side is not a winning environment for retaining the 'better' younger players.
Click to expand...

Do the other top clubs operate such young teams in the U23 league or are we the only one doing Boys against Men?

Guess, if they feel that as a cohort they will progress over the next 2 or 3 years at the U23 level and have chances in the 1st squad then the results at the moment aren't as important. Don't know that much about Ugo as a man-manager and developer. Will 17 year olds stay and play for him until they get their chance with Poch? Does he have that sort of character and charisma?
 
StephenH said:
I tend to agree that development is the priority.
My personal caveat to this, is young players tend to develop quicker in a winning environment.

Ugo Ehiogu U23 side is not a winning environment for retaining the 'better' younger players.
Click to expand...

How high up the u23 table is it necessary for us to finish then?
 
Lost Mango said:
Do the other top clubs operate such young teams in the U23 league or are we the only one doing Boys against Men?

Guess, if they feel that as a cohort they will progress over the next 2 or 3 years at the U23 level and have chances in the 1st squad then the results at the moment aren't as important. Don't know that much about Ugo as a man-manager and developer. Will 17 year olds stay and play for him until they get their chance with Poch? Does he have that sort of character and charisma?
Click to expand...

I think the most important motivational factor is if they see a path to the first team or not. We just totally outplayed and crushed Gillingham in the league cup with 3 of the "next generation" of young players starting and playing well (CCV, Winks, Onomah) as well as two more coming on and Edwards in particular looking bright.

They follow young players that have either been brought through the academy or signed as youngsters and been given a real chance at Spurs. Players like Walker and Rose back before Pochettino. Alli, Kane and Dier since Pochettino came in. As well as players like Mason and Bentaleb that have recently been given good chances at Spurs and done well enough to earn good moves to other fairly big clubs at a high level making tons of money and playing in some of the top European games.

I think as long as young players see that path to our first team and/or paths to becoming professionals at a very high level at other clubs by learning their trade at Spurs they will be very motivated and optimistic about their futures.
 
StephenH said:
I tend to agree that development is the priority.
My personal caveat to this, is young players tend to develop quicker in a winning environment.

Ugo Ehiogu U23 side is not a winning environment for retaining the 'better' younger players.
Click to expand...
I disagree completely.... Spurs could win many under 23 games by playing the players who are the most physically adept, along with players close to the age limit (and I think teams can even pick two players over the age limit?) However doing this wouldn't develop our talented young players at all. A great way to develop skillful, young players is to put them up against players who are physically stronger, our young players will not be able to beat (or even match) their opponents for strength and therefore have to find a way of using their (often superior) skill. As our young players then develop physically, the game becomes very easy, as they can start to match their opponents for strength along with having superior technical skills.

Our young players will win enough games at under 17/19 levels and in the various international youth tournaments that they play. I cannot see Winning or losing at under 23 level making any difference to their development. I think Ehiogu is a brave coach, as he clearly puts development ahead of results - and long may it continue I'd say.
 
I apologise if my original post reads as though I place importance on results - I don't. I did say it was the performance that I was underwhelmed by but when mentioning a game it seems remiss not to mention the score also. Whilst we had a young team out(avg 17.8), Southampton weren't a particularly old side themselves(avg 18.7). The problem with saying we're all about developing the young players by playing them against older opponents is that the majority of our opponents are doing the same thing themselves, so instead of testing your 17-18 year olds against 21+ year olds they're actually just playing against players largely from the same age group, it's only an U23 league by name, in reality it's more like an U19 league.

I don't blame Ehiogu as he can only work with what he's given. The biggest problem with this group is actually the older players, they simply aren't at the level of player we've had in recent years and they're still making the same mistakes with the same regularity. Tashan Oakley-Boothe is already one the best players in this squad and whilst he's a very good prospect, a 16 year old should be going into this team learning from those around him rather being the one expected to deliver. We're still producing the top talents but the depth just isn't as good as it was, whilst we're not in the business to build successful youth sides I don't think it helps our best talents when the majority of their teammates just aren't up to it.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I disagree completely.... Spurs could win many under 23 games by playing the players who are the most physically adept, along with players close to the age limit (and I think teams can even pick two players over the age limit?) However doing this wouldn't develop our talented young players at all. A great way to develop skillful, young players is to put them up against players who are physically stronger, our young players will not be able to beat (or even match) their opponents for strength and therefore have to find a way of using their (often superior) skill. As our young players then develop physically, the game becomes very easy, as they can start to match their opponents for strength along with having superior technical skills.

Our young players will win enough games at under 17/19 levels and in the various international youth tournaments that they play. I cannot see Winning or losing at under 23 level making any difference to their development. I think Ehiogu is a brave coach, as he clearly puts development ahead of results - and long may it continue I'd say.
Click to expand...

I agree with some of this and winning is of course not the be all and end all especially at youth level.
Being 0-3 down after 8 minutes at home is also is not IMHO going to aid development. I think some balance between development and teaching a winning mentality is beneficial. It looks as if this U23 system is a little broken and a fudge. Allowing over age players in for me is wrong, as blurs the line between youth and reserve team football. We would be better just concentrating on U18. But Ehiogu probably sees them as one and the same and as you say concentrates on development.
 
we probably dont have the depth of talent we had in comparison to the group that had Kane, Mason, Townsend, Pritchard, Bentaleb etc....that group used to be near the top of whatever league they were playing in and would regularly go to tournaments and do very well

Plus back then we had Inglethorpe coaching them. Top coach at that level.
 
Yoof said:
I apologise if my original post reads as though I place importance on results - I don't. I did say it was the performance that I was underwhelmed by but when mentioning a game it seems remiss not to mention the score also. Whilst we had a young team out(avg 17.8), Southampton weren't a particularly old side themselves(avg 18.7). The problem with saying we're all about developing the young players by playing them against older opponents is that the majority of our opponents are doing the same thing themselves, so instead of testing your 17-18 year olds against 21+ year olds they're actually just playing against players largely from the same age group, it's only an U23 league by name, in reality it's more like an U19 league.

I don't blame Ehiogu as he can only work with what he's given. The biggest problem with this group is actually the older players, they simply aren't at the level of player we've had in recent years and they're still making the same mistakes with the same regularity. Tashan Oakley-Boothe is already one the best players in this squad and whilst he's a very good prospect, a 16 year old should be going into this team learning from those around him rather being the one expected to deliver. We're still producing the top talents but the depth just isn't as good as it was, whilst we're not in the business to build successful youth sides I don't think it helps our best talents when the majority of their teammates just aren't up to it.
Click to expand...

Others will know Ehiogu better than me however the couple times I've heard him being interviewed, he hasn't come across as someone who is articulate enough to get ideas across to young players so I doubt his ability as a coach (similar to how I would doubt Ledley's ability to be a coach, though at least he could inspire people more)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back