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The youth players/on-loan thread 2015-16
- Thread starter Denmark Spur
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I don't think so. Oduwa was one of our most impressive attacking players in the behind-closed-doors preseason friendlies. And I think it quite likely that he would have had a more telling and positive impact on the game than some of our other attacking players had he been afforded the opportunity against Man Utd. Not least because he has that precious quality that we currently lack in attack - real pace.
If we were blessed with players who can scare the opposition by mere dint of their ability to beat their man with trickery and pace, then I'd agree with you. But we emphatically aren't thus blessed. Nor will we be so until we bring in the two or three players that we need (bearing in mind that N'jie, for example, will require some time to acclimatise to the speed, physicality and competitiveness of the Premier League).
Either a potential loan deal - or choice of loan deals - or a non football related decision, I'd guess.
Cant see it being non-football related. I agree that its a choice of loan deal, perhaps one in the England and one abroad?
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
It looks like Pochettino doesn't see things your way as Oduwa is off to Glasgow Rangers on loan (along with Dominic Ball)
I
indianspur
Guest
Clearly. But that doesn't change my opinion.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
I'm not knocking your opinion mate.... Yours is as valid as mine or anyone elses... Don't you think it a little telling though that he is getting a loan move to a team in the second tier of Scottish football? I know it is Glasgow Rangers, who are a huge club, but the general standard there is probably at the same level as League 1 in England.
I know its more about playing first team football, scrapping for points etc., but Rangers and the standard in the Scottish second tier are abysmal.
The only real positive I can glean from this is that they will be playing for a team who will probably be dominating games and playing the right way (if Warburton's last encounter with one of our youths is anything to go by) rather than a scrappy lower-League 1 team
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
I think I would prefer them to be playing for a team who aren't dominating games.... Often a loan deal is used to help a young player learn to play properly. At many lower level teams the players rely on their win bonuses to pay their mortgage and they won't tolerate a kid shirking a tackle or not passing to a better placed teammate etc. Rangers are likely to win a large majority of their games this season, which may not be as helpful to the development or our two players.
If anything, I would say that the level of Scotland's second tier is lower than League 1.
But there are three factors that count in favour of this move:
1. Warburton - he is a safe pair of hands for our young players. We know him. We know how his team will play. We know that he will look after our players and coach them in the right way. Vitally important.
2. Rangers - they're in a crap league but they're still a huge club. One of the principle aims of a good loan is to acclimatise young players to playing against grown men, in front of big crowds and in pressure situations. The Scottish Championship won't be high on quality but it will be very physical. And British clubs don't come much bigger than Rangers. Our boys will be playing to home crowds of 40-50K every week. And in every game, they will face opponents who will be keen to impress in their biggest game of the season. Rangers will also be chasing promotion - and expected to succeed - so every game will come with added pressure. In these respects, Rangers offers more than any English Championship club could.
3. Playing time - we saw last season how one of our highest rated young players, Milos Veljkovic, effectively experienced a wasted year on loan. He was unlucky to be injured with Charlton but, prior to that, he endured a frustrating first half of the season being handed virtually no game time. We don't want that for Oduwa or Ball. I'm confident that they'll get plenty of game time at a somewhat lower level with Rangers.
I repeat my post from the ITK thread (and this is a far more appropriate place for it!).
There are three factors that count in favour of this move:
1. Warburton - he is a safe pair of hands for our young players. We know him. We know how his team will play. We know that he will look after our players and coach them in the right way. Vitally important.
2. Rangers - they're in a crap league but they're still a huge club. One of the principle aims of a good loan is to acclimatise young players to playing against grown men, in front of big crowds and in pressure situations. The Scottish Championship won't be high on quality but it will be very physical. And British clubs don't come much bigger than Rangers. Our boys will be playing to home crowds of 40-50K every week. And in every game, they will face opponents who will be keen to impress in their biggest game of the season. Rangers will also be chasing promotion - and expected to succeed - so every game will come with added pressure. In these respects, Rangers offers more than any English Championship club could.
3. Playing time - we saw last season how one of our highest rated young players, Milos Veljkovic, effectively experienced a wasted year on loan. He was unlucky to be injured with Charlton but, prior to that, he endured a frustrating first half of the season being handed virtually no game time. We don't want that for Oduwa or Ball. I'm confident that they'll get plenty of game time at a somewhat lower level with Rangers.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
I agree with you on all three points Jimmy.... BUT (and this is the big but for me) I would prefer the players to be playing in a more competitive league and also be playing for a club where they really do have to earn their win bonuses as opposed to playing week in week out against teams who perhaps will simply be trying not to lose by too many.
I guess other good news here is that we should be able to watch quite a bit of our players are Rangers are likely to feature on TV a fair amount.
I guess other good news here is that we should be able to watch quite a bit of our players are Rangers are likely to feature on TV a fair amount.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Make no mistake every team guns for Rangers like its their cup final and that experience alone all be excellent
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From what I can gather, having briefly read the relevant thread on a Rangers forum yesterday, they really don't have that many great players at the moment. They aren't so very far ahead of some other Scottish Championship squads. So although they will be favourites for promotion, they will still have to work hard for victory in many games. I suspect that it won't be as much of a cakewalk for them as you expect.
I
indianspur
Guest
Recently promoted Dutch club Roda JC Kerkrade have confirmed that they will be partnering with Tottenham Hotspur, thanks to the involvement of Roda's new technical director Ton Caanen.
Details on what the partnership entails are sketchy at the moment, but it appears to be a similar setup to what Chelsea currently have going on with Vitesse Arnhem.
Of course, any mention of the phrase "club partnership" to a Tottenham Hotspur fan well be met with a look of derision quickly followed by the phrase "[expletive] Real Madrid." Those words will probably be followed by some derisory comments about the Tottenham ownership and the club's chairman. This, however, does not appear to be a partnership which will see Tottenham receiving large sums of cash for their best players every year.
'De samenwerking met Roda gaat nu van start', vervolgt Caanen. 'Eerst op technisch vlak, maar in de toekomst liggen er ook interessante mogelijkheden op gebied van bijvoorbeeld jeugdopleiding. Aan mij de taak het proces bewaken, regelmatig naar Engeland te gaan om de contacten te onderhouden en mogelijke versterkingen voor Roda in kaart te brengen. Het zou goed kunnen dat in januari al een eerste speler hierheen komt. Alles natuurlijk wel in samenspraak met onze scouts en technische mensen.'
Essentially, Caanen, who is a pretty well traveled, if rather unsuccessful manager, will be the contact person between Roda and Spurs. He states that there will be a number of interesting possibilities for the partnership, particularly in the area of youth development. He continues, however, to say that he does not think any players will join Roda before January and when they do it will be based on the coaches' and scouts' analysis. The plan seems to be for this partnership to go for three years, at which points both sides will re-evaluate.
One of the more interesting lines from the articles is this:
'Ik heb in Engeland duidelijk gemaakt dat Roda nu een geheel nieuwe leiding heeft die dit wél serieus wil oppakken', zegt Caanen. 'De afgelopen maanden hebben we volop contact gehad, waarbij Tottenham wel aangaf dat het belangrijk is dat ik een rol zou krijgen in een partnership. Dat is nu een feit. Tottenham leent vaak spelers uit aan clubs uit de lagere Engelse divisies, maar ze willen ook een gestructureerde lijn hebben naar het continent.'
Roda are, apparently, under new ownership and are now intent on being competitive in the Dutch Top flight. Caanen goes on to say that while Tottenham often loan players to clubs in the lower divisions of England, Spurs also want to have a structure line to the continent.
All in all, this partnership seems like a big step in the right direction for Spurs. The ability to send young players to play top-flight football in the Netherlands could be a big advantage for the Spurs academy. A quick look at the Vitesse squad shows 5 Chelsea youngsters on loan there, including promising English players Isaiah Brown and Dominic Solanke, who are 18 and 17 respectively. If Roda can help Tottenham churn out the next wave of good academy prospects or showcase the marginal players enough to allow Spurs to turn a profit on them, then this seems like a great move.
Details on what the partnership entails are sketchy at the moment, but it appears to be a similar setup to what Chelsea currently have going on with Vitesse Arnhem.
Of course, any mention of the phrase "club partnership" to a Tottenham Hotspur fan well be met with a look of derision quickly followed by the phrase "[expletive] Real Madrid." Those words will probably be followed by some derisory comments about the Tottenham ownership and the club's chairman. This, however, does not appear to be a partnership which will see Tottenham receiving large sums of cash for their best players every year.
'De samenwerking met Roda gaat nu van start', vervolgt Caanen. 'Eerst op technisch vlak, maar in de toekomst liggen er ook interessante mogelijkheden op gebied van bijvoorbeeld jeugdopleiding. Aan mij de taak het proces bewaken, regelmatig naar Engeland te gaan om de contacten te onderhouden en mogelijke versterkingen voor Roda in kaart te brengen. Het zou goed kunnen dat in januari al een eerste speler hierheen komt. Alles natuurlijk wel in samenspraak met onze scouts en technische mensen.'
Essentially, Caanen, who is a pretty well traveled, if rather unsuccessful manager, will be the contact person between Roda and Spurs. He states that there will be a number of interesting possibilities for the partnership, particularly in the area of youth development. He continues, however, to say that he does not think any players will join Roda before January and when they do it will be based on the coaches' and scouts' analysis. The plan seems to be for this partnership to go for three years, at which points both sides will re-evaluate.
One of the more interesting lines from the articles is this:
'Ik heb in Engeland duidelijk gemaakt dat Roda nu een geheel nieuwe leiding heeft die dit wél serieus wil oppakken', zegt Caanen. 'De afgelopen maanden hebben we volop contact gehad, waarbij Tottenham wel aangaf dat het belangrijk is dat ik een rol zou krijgen in een partnership. Dat is nu een feit. Tottenham leent vaak spelers uit aan clubs uit de lagere Engelse divisies, maar ze willen ook een gestructureerde lijn hebben naar het continent.'
Roda are, apparently, under new ownership and are now intent on being competitive in the Dutch Top flight. Caanen goes on to say that while Tottenham often loan players to clubs in the lower divisions of England, Spurs also want to have a structure line to the continent.
All in all, this partnership seems like a big step in the right direction for Spurs. The ability to send young players to play top-flight football in the Netherlands could be a big advantage for the Spurs academy. A quick look at the Vitesse squad shows 5 Chelsea youngsters on loan there, including promising English players Isaiah Brown and Dominic Solanke, who are 18 and 17 respectively. If Roda can help Tottenham churn out the next wave of good academy prospects or showcase the marginal players enough to allow Spurs to turn a profit on them, then this seems like a great move.
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
Sounds very promising to me. It would be good if we could send some of our players abroad to learn and play regular competitive football. It would be interesting if it does result in 5 loans at a time. That's quite a few!
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Good move for us, I posted this in the other thread.
Having spent time at the Dutch youth academys ( Ajax , Feyenoord) I think this is a very good move. They are really ahead of us in youth coaching ( although England are showing signs of improvement), and it can only benefit our young players.
Having spent time at the Dutch youth academys ( Ajax , Feyenoord) I think this is a very good move. They are really ahead of us in youth coaching ( although England are showing signs of improvement), and it can only benefit our young players.
You're right about the majority of English clubs but I think Spurs are now up there with the best academies in Holland.
Nevertheless, this partnership seems like a good thing - if Roda can remain a top flight club. Quite apart from offering a loan destination for our young players, it might also help us to accommodate young, foreign signings who can't currently play in the UK as a consequence of work permit rules.
Like Musa Yahaya, perhaps.
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